Scottie, dont defend people who issue ultimatums without warning or consideration. Its a jerk move.

If you dont say anything until you are willing to boycott events, then you are equally guilty.

Scottie, dont defend people who issue ultimatums without warning or consideration. Its a jerk move.

If you dont say anything until you are willing to boycott events, then you are equally guilty.

I feel like a jerk for saying it but that did happen. Unless there were subtle things I missed (more than likely since I am a literal definition of a Social Retard) then yea I only had opinions.

For me it is painful simply because I know I have improved. Shaking hands, telling people that they did great, trying to comment less and even playing games to play games and not just to dominate and win. Hell I play star wars sounds and music during games currently.

Depending on how you say it, telling someone they did great can come off pretty condescending. I'd recommend sticking to "Good Game" until you have a rapport with someone.

Scottie, dont defend people who issue ultimatums without warning or consideration. Its a jerk move.

If you dont say anything until you are willing to boycott events, then you are equally guilty.

Lys has made multiple threads on this board detailing his play behavior. Others from his area have on multiple occasions have chimed in on those threads directly detailing issues with his behavior.

Put it this way, I'm on the other coast and I am aware of the issues with Lys's play. That makes it very unbelievable in my opinion for this boycott to have come from nowhere. Short of someone coming up to Lys and saying "You're being a **** for the following reasons" I would find it very possible that Lys just be unaware of things, which even he acknowledges.

Lys, I understand that you feel like you've been improving but I put forth two things. 1. You may not be in the best position to evaluate your own behavior. Most people aren't but you have added hurdles in that area. 2. The situation has escalated from people just opting not to play you to actively looking to have you excluded from events. Take that for what you will.

I stand by what I said, take some time off as I do not think you will be able to remedy the situation I'm the short term. If Armada exists on Vassal play there, it will certainly be easier on your social issues.

Depending on how you say it, telling someone they did great can come off pretty condescending. I'd recommend sticking to "Good Game" until you have a rapport with someone.

People are weird. . .

Lys, I understand that you feel like you've been improving but I put forth two things. 1. You may not be in the best position to evaluate your own behavior. Most people aren't but you have added hurdles in that area. 2. The situation has escalated from people just opting not to play you to actively looking to have you excluded from events. Take that for what you will.

I stand by what I said, take some time off as I do not think you will be able to remedy the situation I'm the short term. If Armada exists on Vassal play there, it will certainly be easier on your social issues.

Oh I agree I am biased but I am not evaluating how well I am doing, I am showing the things I have started doing as what people have suggested as a form of improvement.

I know we dont see eye to eye often SATF but it does happen at times. I am biased and noticing ones attitude is like noticing ones smell, not usually possible unless you REALLY stink. I do have one thing going in my favor and that is my high analytical ability. This actually helps because I can analyse a situation till its dust and break things out.

As for vassal, I seem to annoy most I play against. . .

Honestly I had to take breaks from competitive tournaments back in my Warhammer and Warmachine days. Everyone was super serious and that made me more serious and competitive games made my issue worse. It was those times that my friends dragged me aside and told me how I was acting, because my Aspergers prevented me from seeing it clearly. After I sat back and just watched other players I began to see some of my negative personality traits in a few other people and realized those were the ones I didn't enjoy playing.

There is an advantage to seeing things with analytical eyes. Sit back and just watch other people without stepping in. Look for traits that match your own.

You know me and I was in my 20's too, a long long time ago, but I did learn to change my behavior. It took time and patience, but it was worth the work. I know your issue but people like us can't expect everyone to understand our issues, so we are unfortunately the ones that have to adapt to the situation, we can't expect people we barely know to understand us.

Don't want to say too much but you know what I am saying. You can change your behavior with your issue because others like you, myself included, have done it. Don't let your issue define your life, redefine your issue. (Also almost no one believes I have Aspergers today because they didn't know me when I was younger. Now I am atypical but still have my flaws but I have come a long ways. You can too. But it won't come easy.)

Scottie, dont defend people who issue ultimatums without warning or consideration. Its a jerk move.

If you dont say anything until you are willing to boycott events, then you are equally guilty.

I feel like a jerk for saying it but that did happen. Unless there were subtle things I missed (more than likely since I am a literal definition of a Social Retard) then yea I only had opinions.

For me it is painful simply because I know I have improved. Shaking hands, telling people that they did great, trying to comment less and even playing games to play games and not just to dominate and win. Hell I play star wars sounds and music during games currently.

You are not the arbiter of whether or not your improvement is adequate. Have you ever heard the phrase, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression?" You're facing that in a non-abstract way.

Your efforts at improvement might be coming off as "try hard" (the music thing made that leap to my mind.) Folks like people with effortless social skills. People want to be around folks who "just get it." When people know that you know that they don't like you any accommodation of them can likely have the opposite effect of what is intended.

This is a valid point as well:

Depending on how you say it, telling someone they did great can come off pretty condescending. I'd recommend sticking to "Good Game" until you have a rapport with someone.

Saying, "You did great" to someone you've previously been ungracious with will come off badly. It will be perceived as further disrespect as you're now patronizing them.

Honestly I had to take breaks from competitive tournaments back in my Warhammer and Warmachine days. Everyone was super serious and that made me more serious and competitive games made my issue worse. It was those times that my friends dragged me aside and told me how I was acting, because my Aspergers prevented me from seeing it clearly. After I sat back and just watched other players I began to see some of my negative personality traits in a few other people and realized those were the ones I didn't enjoy playing.

There is an advantage to seeing things with analytical eyes. Sit back and just watch other people without stepping in. Look for traits that match your own.

You know me and I was in my 20's too, a long long time ago, but I did learn to change my behavior. It took time and patience, but it was worth the work. I know your issue but people like us can't expect everyone to understand our issues, so we are unfortunately the ones that have to adapt to the situation, we can't expect people we barely know to understand us.

Don't want to say too much but you know what I am saying. You can change your behavior with your issue because others like you, myself included, have done it. Don't let your issue define your life, redefine your issue. (Also almost no one believes I have Aspergers today because they didn't know me when I was younger. Now I am atypical but still have my flaws but I have come a long ways. You can too. But it won't come easy.)

The one reason I was trying to keep this impersonal. . .

Look, the desire to change has to be there and I have that. I have seen many who do not and the flounder at life. However, when I do change I flounder anyways and it feels like people just want more and more and even more change at a pace that I cant keep up with. A normal person might be able to change and adjust actions at X rate but my aptitude for social change is less than an average person. I can only implement and change things so fast.

Scottie, dont defend people who issue ultimatums without warning or consideration. Its a jerk move.

If you dont say anything until you are willing to boycott events, then you are equally guilty.

I feel like a jerk for saying it but that did happen. Unless there were subtle things I missed (more than likely since I am a literal definition of a Social Retard) then yea I only had opinions.

For me it is painful simply because I know I have improved. Shaking hands, telling people that they did great, trying to comment less and even playing games to play games and not just to dominate and win. Hell I play star wars sounds and music during games currently.

You are not the arbiter of whether or not your improvement is adequate. Have you ever heard the phrase, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression?" You're facing that in a non-abstract way.

Your efforts at improvement might be coming off as "try hard" (the music thing made that leap to my mind.) Folks like people with effortless social skills. People want to be around folks who "just get it." When people know that you know that they don't like you any accommodation of them can likely have the opposite effect of what is intended.

This is a valid point as well:

I dont understand. I get the part about effortless social skills but people need to understand that not everyone is at that level.

Depending on how you say it, telling someone they did great can come off pretty condescending. I'd recommend sticking to "Good Game" until you have a rapport with someone.

Saying, "You did great" to someone you've previously been ungracious with will come off badly. It will be perceived as further disrespect as you're now patronizing them.

I maintain that people are weird. . .

If the person apologizes for it but it still happens albeit a bit more infrequently? Lets say he is harsher on himself than being a total arse to others and it is just a vocal condemnation of himself?

Its not you is it?

Interesting that this question is being ignored, because it was my immediate reaction about halfway through the first page.

I actually missed it. Thanks for bringing it up.

Knowing how I vent and rant, can you really think this is about me?

So... this really was about you after all and you still made this post? You're not helping your case here.

All I did was ask you if you thought is was me. I never said it was not.

See, I have issues but when it comes to keeping a secret I revert back to my Intelligence training ways and will secret squirrel things.

I want to make it clear that if you tell someone "you did great" after a game they lost it can come across offensively, particularly if you already have a bad reputation. What many people are going to interpret that as is "even at your best, you're still not even close to as good as me and that's why you lost."

In my day I've played against a fair number of jerks and they like to shake my hand and say "good game" at the end of a game because they've been told people like that. It's a nice gesture, but if the game itself was unpleasant and my opponent was abrasive, it doesn't make the situation any better. If anything it makes it worse, because now I'm being asked to subscribe to the social fiction that the game was "good" for the sake of making my opponent feel better about themselves. In those cases, it wasn't good, but I'm stuck shaking their hand so we can move on with our lives without any further issues because I can see the glorious light at the end of the jerk tunnel and I'm desperate to finally escape.

In short, I'd focus more on your actions mid-game that put people off than what you do before and after.

I want to make it clear that if you tell someone "you did great" after a game they lost it can come across offensively, particularly if you already have a bad reputation. What many people are going to interpret that as is "even at your best, you're still not even close to as good as me and that's why you lost."

In my day I've played against a fair number of jerks and they like to shake my hand and say "good game" at the end of a game because they've been told people like that. It's a nice gesture, but if the game itself was unpleasant and my opponent was abrasive, it doesn't make the situation any better. If anything it makes it worse, because now I'm being asked to subscribe to the social fiction that the game was "good" for the sake of making my opponent feel better about themselves. In those cases, it wasn't good, but I'm stuck shaking their hand so we can move on with our lives without any further issues because I can see the glorious light at the end of the jerk tunnel and I'm desperate to finally escape.

In short, I'd focus more on your actions mid-game that put people off than what you do before and after.

See that makes no sense to me. I guess I would feel bad if I just got completely trounced and they said I did great but at the same time if I got Trounced by Shmitty and he said I did great I would ask what I could of done differently and figure out things. . .

Your second paragraph hits me most because if games I mess up badly in I feel that way. My opponent is not a jerk or anything but the game is no longer "good". Getting beat is one thing but if a game is ever mine to lose and I lose it, the game is not "good" anymore. . .

Mid game is important. . .

See that makes no sense to me. I guess I would feel bad if I just got completely trounced and they said I did great but at the same time if I got Trounced by Shmitty and he said I did great I would ask what I could of done differently and figure out things. . .

The difference I believe is you know Shmitty bears you no malice and it's a genuine compliment. If most of the guys I played with told me that, I'd also take it as a compliment. The problem is specifically if you have a bad reputation the listener can interpret what you say in a sarcastic or smug tone that totally twists the meaning and makes it just a bit more salt in the wound. You may not intend it that way (and I don't believe you would, for what it's worth), but it can come across that way.

Your second paragraph hits me most because if games I mess up badly in I feel that way. My opponent is not a jerk or anything but the game is no longer "good". Getting beat is one thing but if a game is ever mine to lose and I lose it, the game is not "good" anymore. . .

I can also get a bit aggravated with myself if I make a major mistake, so I understand where you're coming from. For me (and a lot of gamers), though, the "goodness" of a game largely comes down to: did both players enjoy their time together? Did everyone overall perform well and made the game interesting? If so, it was a good game. A big mistake can rattle the second criterion a little bit, but the first one carries more weight for most people.

Mid game is important. . .

Yep!

See that makes no sense to me. I guess I would feel bad if I just got completely trounced and they said I did great but at the same time if I got Trounced by Shmitty and he said I did great I would ask what I could of done differently and figure out things. . .

The difference I believe is you know Shmitty bears you no malice and it's a genuine compliment. If most of the guys I played with told me that, I'd also take it as a compliment. The problem is specifically if you have a bad reputation the listener can interpret what you say in a sarcastic or smug tone that totally twists the meaning and makes it just a bit more salt in the wound. You may not intend it that way (and I don't believe you would, for what it's worth), but it can come across that way.

Your second paragraph hits me most because if games I mess up badly in I feel that way. My opponent is not a jerk or anything but the game is no longer "good". Getting beat is one thing but if a game is ever mine to lose and I lose it, the game is not "good" anymore. . .

I can also get a bit aggravated with myself if I make a major mistake, so I understand where you're coming from. For me (and a lot of gamers), though, the "goodness" of a game largely comes down to: did both players enjoy their time together? Did everyone overall perform well and made the game interesting? If so, it was a good game. A big mistake can rattle the second criterion a little bit, but the first one carries more weight for most people.

Mid game is important. . .

Yep!

Not sure how to affect the mid game. . . . Honestly I dont have malice to any of my opponents. I think the issue is that I am a good player. . . it sounds egotistical and likely is but I feel that to me people are playing good . . . I dont know. . . I honestly am not trying to be mean. ..

You are a focused player who concentrates solely on the game and your play.

I however refer you to my first post, this was never the place to post this.

Let the memories mellow.

Well I will say it will seem unfair, I know. But having this issue is a curse and a blessing. I grasped String Theory binge watching lectures with animations and am now looking for a book on the math. My point is yes, there will be social awkwardness and times where you will fail. But you have an ability to see abstract patterns and seeing Armada lists on a mathematical way that most won't. But we will come off as know it all's when we discuss those concepts in a social setting. We see angles and can gauge distance at a glance but we miss social clues that everyone else believes are common knowledge. Hell even this thread and my responses are not what "normal" people do, but we analyze things on a different level and our emotions will always look out of place. That is who we are.

But it can be molded and made to your benefit but it will seem absolutely unfair. That's the spectrum. If you can channel that analytical and passion for logic into this issue you will have the driving force to do it.

I won't pull punches here, this is a issue you will have to take on. But five years from now you will appreciate it yourself instead of just doing it for others because a flaw with the spectrum kids, like me, is that we approach social changes for the comfort of others, not ourselves. We can't see the importance off the bat, not at first at least. But as time goes on it will be idiot your over all confidence without all the over compensations that we normally do. I know where you're at, and I am going to be upfront instead of giving you vague advice.

If you're working on your issues ask someone how has had to do it before, those who haven't experienced the spectrum are not going to know what you're going through nor will they see it as a natural progression, they will just see a flaw. We are not flawed, we are just strangers in a strange land.

I'm a die-hard XCOM Ironman Impossible player so I guess I have a different perspective on this. I enjoy even the games I lose. I get frustrated and maybe a bit salty, but a losing game is a game I'm learning from.

That's XCOM Armada, Baby

Not sure how to affect the mid game. . . . Honestly I dont have malice to any of my opponents. I think the issue is that I am a good player. . . it sounds egotistical and likely is but I feel that to me people are playing good . . . I dont know. . . I honestly am not trying to be mean. ..

I've played against good players in a number of different games and let me tell you there are some who I know would usually DESTROY me in a game but I would NEVER turn down a game with them because they're great players and give me an enjoyable experience. Conversely, there are others who are shunned by the community. You don't get a bad reputation just because you're good, and falling back on that kind of thinking is comfortable but unfortunately also poisonous.

This strikes me as clearly Lyraeus posting about Lyraeus, otherwise it makes no sense.

Sooo... basically a continuation of this thread... https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/222931-discussion-time-opponent-refusing-to-play-you/

Sure, or else this one https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/219388-discussion-time-handling-the-loss/

They are all very closely related.

Hmmmmm... The plot tickens.

Huh, seems like a giant conspiracy where one does not lay.

It is no secret that I am a horrible opponent

Don't read too much into it, it's a quote from 'Kill Bill 2'

...

So you don't deny that this thread is also about you?

Nope, I won't deny that. Honestly I figured everyone already knew that and was just humoring me (social anxiety has me think many such things)

I did not want this to be about me. I wanted how to handle the situation so I can look for a solution

I figured it was about you, but honestly, I hoped I was wrong because it's getting kinda sad.

Seeing that this is at least the third thread you are making about your attitude problem and that it's getting worst all the time, I think you should do what Scottie said and take a break from your community. That, or decide to not give a **** about the others and continue attending tournaments regardless if other players decide not to come anymore. But I think you are currently at a point of no return. No matter what you do, they don't care anymore, they just don't want to play against you. Why? I don't know, I'm not in your community. But in life, you can't force people to like you.

EDIT: I should also note that people that have high esteem of themselves tend to get on people nerves. Modesty is one of the best social quality.

A weird thing about social dynamics. You're better off coming off aloof than coming off eager. When in doubt, talk less, smile more.

Edit: Yes, my wife and I have been listening to Hamilton a lot lately....

When in doubt, talk less, smile more.

Me:

This strikes me as clearly Lyraeus posting about Lyraeus, otherwise it makes no sense.

Sooo... basically a continuation of this thread... https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/222931-discussion-time-opponent-refusing-to-play-you/

Sure, or else this one https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/219388-discussion-time-handling-the-loss/

They are all very closely related.

Hmmmmm... The plot tickens.

Huh, seems like a giant conspiracy where one does not lay.

It is no secret that I am a horrible opponent

Don't read too much into it, it's a quote from 'Kill Bill 2'

...

So you don't deny that this thread is also about you?

Nope, I won't deny that. Honestly I figured everyone already knew that and was just humoring me (social anxiety has me think many such things)

I did not want this to be about me. I wanted how to handle the situation so I can look for a solution

I figured it was about you, but honestly, I hoped I was wrong because it's getting kinda sad.

Seeing that this is at least the third thread you are making about your attitude problem and that it's getting worst all the time, I think you should do what Scottie said and take a break from your community. That, or decide to not give a **** about the others and continue attending tournaments regardless if other players decide not to come anymore. But I think you are currently at a point of no return. No matter what you do, they don't care anymore, they just don't want to play against you. Why? I don't know, I'm not in your community. But in life, you can't force people to like you.

EDIT: I should also note that people that have high esteem of themselves tend to get on people nerves. Modesty is one of the best social quality.

See the issue is that I dont hold myself in high esteem. I know I am a good player, I know am not the most socially smart person, and I know I am smart but that to me is just facts. I have no self esteem, it is all feigned.

When in doubt, talk less, smile more.

Me:

That is how I feel I would look.

When in doubt, talk less, smile more.

Me:

Of all the things I'd say about you, Dras, "seldom talks" is not one of them.