So why are you posting in a thread that is specifically discussing just that?

So why are you posting in a thread that is specifically discussing just that?

Because it beats working...

But this will likely be my last post on this subject. The system they use for X-Wing has been proven to work, and if they use it for Runewars it will likely work here as well.

Selling I'd guess one tray and a trays worth of models in an expansion pack for $10-20 with upgrade cards is something most people wouldn't have a problem with. With only two factions you could see a lot of people do like they do in X-Wing or Armada or Warmahords, and collect more than one faction meaning having to buy cross faction isn't that big of a deal.

Or they may do a print on demand system, that seems unlikely but given the scale in terms of models needed for this game vs X-Wing or Armada maybe that will work. Based on the demo video from TC... If that's 100 points, then 200 will likely be 35-50 or more models. If you buy a tray at a time, that could be a ton of extra upgrade cards, so maybe buying them online would be fairly easy to do.

Maybe FFG will have the upgrade cards be more faction based, so there's no need to buy cross faction for upgrades...

The one thing I do know, is FFG has proven time and time again that they make great games that sell well, and so whatever system they use, this game will likely make them even more money, and more importantly will be a very fun game to play regardless of what system they use for things like upgrade cards.

Maybe FFG will have the upgrade cards be more faction based, so there's no need to buy cross faction for upgrades...

The one thing I do know, is FFG has proven time and time again that they make great games that sell well, and so whatever system they use, this game will likely make them even more money, and more importantly will be a very fun game to play regardless of what system they use for things like upgrade cards.

Although I am generally on the side of "I want upgrade cards only for the models inside the package" and the extreme example of X-Wing is the reason I never bought into it despite its huge popularity, I can also see the upside: Upgrade cards for core units in later wave can give them added versatility and add a new layer of strategy to the existing game. As long as it doesn't get out of hand and I have to buy a 100$ showcase model just for a basic infantry upgrade card, I'm in.

edit: Double post, sorry.

My guess is that a blister will be one tray worth of unit, whether that's four little guys, two cavalry, or one hero/big thing. It will have their command dial and cards too.

But, that means you'll end up with a LOT of extra dials and cards as most units are multiple stands. Maybe they're banking on having so many extra copies of cards around that people just donate piles of their extras to the group like Magic land cards? I know I won't need 6 or 8 copies of some upgrade that comes on some basic infantry unit but I likely WILL have to buy that many of them.

So maybe better to think that a blister is 2 or 4 trays worth? I don't know... You'd get some economy of scale at that point.

So maybe better to think that a blister is 2 or 4 trays worth? I don't know... You'd get some economy of scale at that point.

The Reanimates can only be played with 2 or more trays so i think you will get at least the minimal unit requirements, and in like in most mass wargames the same amount of money should byu you more basic troops then elite troops/heroes.

I'd guess:

2 full trays for infantry and cavalry

1 tray for heroes/mages and monsters/siege weapons

1 trayless figure for standard-bearers and musicians

I've read in a forum wave 1 will be this:

Starter

Daqin Spearmen Set
Daqin Knights Set
Daqin Foot Command Blister
Daqin Characters Blister (Wizard, Lord on foot, Mounted Lord)

Undead Skeleton Set
Undead Skeleton Archer Set
Undead Foot Command Blister
Undead Characters Blister (Necromancer, Lich on Foot, Mounted Lich)

so no single standard bearer/musician/champion or hero if this is true.

I've read in a forum wave 1 will be this:

Starter

Daqin Spearmen Set

Daqin Knights Set

Daqin Foot Command Blister

Daqin Characters Blister (Wizard, Lord on foot, Mounted Lord)

Undead Skeleton Set

Undead Skeleton Archer Set

Undead Foot Command Blister

Undead Characters Blister (Necromancer, Lich on Foot, Mounted Lich)

so no single standard bearer/musician/champion or hero if this is true.

Hi to all! the opening post is just a beg to FFG, right now there no other game where you have to buy some units of other factions to get some buffs for you. Something similar to other FFG games here, where you have to buy a lot of miniatures will be a reason to me to quit, and some friends too. So I just want to see if some of you are agree with me on this.

About that expansion list, it looks ok to me. On command blister you will get the bearer / musician / champion. I also thing on each infantry blister we will get 2 trays.

My guess is that a blister will be one tray worth of unit, whether that's four little guys, two cavalry, or one hero/big thing. It will have their command dial and cards too.

Yeah I was thinking about that last night and the way FFG doe things is you get everything you need in a pack. So that means you'd get at least enough for a unit, which is going to be either one or two trays worth for most stuff.

And yes that would include the dials and such.

But I still expect the expansions to be around $15-20, maybe a bit more depending on the size. But two horsemen is about the same amount of plastic as eight lancers, so if a single tray is a unit, then I'd expect it to be about the same.

Packing several things together is a good sign for costs.

I've read in a forum wave 1 will be this:

Starter

Daqin Spearmen Set

Daqin Knights Set

Daqin Foot Command Blister

Daqin Characters Blister (Wizard, Lord on foot, Mounted Lord)

Undead Skeleton Set

Undead Skeleton Archer Set

Undead Foot Command Blister

Undead Characters Blister (Necromancer, Lich on Foot, Mounted Lich)

so no single standard bearer/musician/champion or hero if this is true.

Those are what was on display at gen con. I remeber in one if the videos, I think the bols one, ffg said there would be alternate sculpts for the heroes in the base game. I am hoping that the heroes come with 2 or 3 different persona per model. Maybe with head / weapon swaps. I would assume that what was shown at gencon isn't all of wave 1. I think undead will receive cavalry and humans will get archers.

I hope units are sold at minimum size or contain enough dials to field min units i.e. 4 trays 2 dials. I also hope units aren't bundled together like battle lore 2e. But from a price standpoint I could see 6 tray boxes (2 cav, 2 archer, 2 Melee + dials trays and upgrades) makes the most sense to me from a business standpoint. Unit box, big guy blister, hero blister, command blister and the mounted/ dismounted hero blister and dice blister so 12 sku for release

I'll go ahead and throw my sentiment in here now. I love X-Wing. It's a fantastic game an it's really fun. I will say, however, that the distribution model was very tough for me in the beginning. But hey! It's STAR WARS! So of course I stuck with it. I've made a few mistakes where I bought something for a single card, but for the most part I've been able to hold myself back. Even though I love the game, I don't own everything. I think there are 6 regular and 3 epic ships still missing from my collection, not including the new wave 9 that was released at GenCon. Most of that is because I'm trying to focus on Scum as my sole faction.

As others have said, it's not an easy distribution model to swallow. If it weren't for the Star Wars brand, I wouldn't be buying it anymore. In fact, I quit after wave 2 because it was just too much to keep up with, so even Star Wars wasn't enough to hold onto me. It took the introduction of the Scum & Villainy faction to get me back in the game (and very far behind).

My point is that if Star Wars — my #1 favorite IP — couldn't keep me buying product because the distribution model was so daunting, there's a problem. I highly doubt RuneWars could keep enough people interested if they keep the same model. My experience also demonstrates the importance of faction identity. It took the bounty hunters to finally get me back because they're my favorite part of Star Wars. FFG will need to get new factions out much sooner, I think, if they want to keep people interested.

TL;DR: My X-Wing experience (anecdotal, though it is) suggests that RuneWars will be hard-pressed to keep going if the distribution model "forces" out-of-faction purchases and if new factions do not release (or at least are not announced) soon.

I'll go ahead and throw my sentiment in here now. I love X-Wing. It's a fantastic game an it's really fun. I will say, however, that the distribution model was very tough for me in the beginning. But hey! It's STAR WARS! So of course I stuck with it. I've made a few mistakes where I bought something for a single card, but for the most part I've been able to hold myself back. Even though I love the game, I don't own everything. I think there are 6 regular and 3 epic ships still missing from my collection, not including the new wave 9 that was released at GenCon. Most of that is because I'm trying to focus on Scum as my sole faction.

As others have said, it's not an easy distribution model to swallow. If it weren't for the Star Wars brand, I wouldn't be buying it anymore. In fact, I quit after wave 2 because it was just too much to keep up with, so even Star Wars wasn't enough to hold onto me. It took the introduction of the Scum & Villainy faction to get me back in the game (and very far behind).

My point is that if Star Wars — my #1 favorite IP — couldn't keep me buying product because the distribution model was so daunting, there's a problem. I highly doubt RuneWars could keep enough people interested if they keep the same model. My experience also demonstrates the importance of faction identity. It took the bounty hunters to finally get me back because they're my favorite part of Star Wars. FFG will need to get new factions out much sooner, I think, if they want to keep people interested.

TL;DR: My X-Wing experience (anecdotal, though it is) suggests that RuneWars will be hard-pressed to keep going if the distribution model "forces" out-of-faction purchases and if new factions so not release (or at least are not announced) soon.

I feel in the same way about it. I am looking for a new game right now, but if the distribution model doesn't change, i feel I will have to pass on this and look for something else. I know a lot of people like me.

I've read in a forum wave 1 will be this:

Starter

Daqin Spearmen Set

Daqin Knights Set

Daqin Foot Command Blister

Daqin Characters Blister (Wizard, Lord on foot, Mounted Lord)

Undead Skeleton Set

Undead Skeleton Archer Set

Undead Foot Command Blister

Undead Characters Blister (Necromancer, Lich on Foot, Mounted Lich)

so no single standard bearer/musician/champion or hero if this is true.

Those are what was on display at gen con. I remeber in one if the videos, I think the bols one, ffg said there would be alternate sculpts for the heroes in the base game. I am hoping that the heroes come with 2 or 3 different persona per model. Maybe with head / weapon swaps. I would assume that what was shown at gencon isn't all of wave 1. I think undead will receive cavalry and humans will get archers.

The video said that there will be different upgrades of heroes with different sculpts so i assume they will have different gear and different rules.

Archers for the humans and cavalry for the undead makes sense but i hope they will be more different than we are humans and have golems and we are undead and habe carion lancers. Magic would help i always liked the magical lores of warhammer where factions had acess to different lores which included sometimes their very own lore (orks, undead, ogres....)

I feel in the same way about it. I am looking for a new game right now, but if the distribution model doesn't change, i feel I will have to pass on this and look for something else. I know a lot of people like me.

I agree. If the game is good and catches on in our area, I'm happy to join in and buy plenty of it. But this will only happen if it's possible to buy just the faction I want to play, and I suspect a lot of other locals feel the same way so if you can't do that we won't have a local community to join in the first place.

suggests that RuneWars will be hard-pressed to keep going if the distribution model "forces" out-of-faction purchases and if new factions do not release (or at least are not announced) soon.

New factions seem like a given, but it's a question of how long it will take them. You remember what it was like in the early days of X-Wing, imagine trying to push out models for five factions...

As for the distribution model... I'm hoping they go with more factioncentric upgrades in this game, and fewer generics, so each faction is more self contained.

But even in X-Wing it's not like you really need to buy out of your faction to play the game. You could make the argument that to place well at Worlds you do, but only 16 people will manage that no matter what upgrades they have.

Does anyone know anything about the cards/ upgrades that will come with the wave 1 blisters?

I reckon it's too early to know for sure but... I was thinking of getting 2 base sets, and the command and hero blisters. I'm hoping that the spearmen and knights blisters won't be bundled with cards and/or upgrades that I might want. Do they do this for X Wing? (e.g., the X Wing fighter blister comes with cards and upgrades that is not included in the base set that also comes with an X Wing)

I highly question how a game like this would work if the expectation was that you had to buy almost 1 of every release for cards. This isn't X-Wing, and I simply don't think it'll work for a mass-battle tabletop miniature game.

The nature of their rules will require it to a limited degree. New waves will introduce new cards, many of which will be useful on older units. Fair enough. THey better make it easier to get them across all the factions though, or release periodic rule/scenario/campaign expansions as an alternate way to get the cards without having to buy models from a faction you will never play. At the very least there should be multiples so even if you do need to buy an expansion you really don't want for cards, at least you only need to buy one.

I am super excited about this game. I've been playing tabletop miniature games since the 90s. I am a former WFB/40K player - I am not turned off by painting or modeling, and I understand it'll be more expensive than say X-Wing per expansion. I would be very put off by this game, this game in particular mind, if it had the same pressure as X-Wing does to buy **** near everything they release for every faction. While it would sometimes lead to increased short term sales, I believe it would be bad for the game by increasing the investment required to play, and thereby decreasing the number of players.

This game will only be successful if it has the largest player base possible. It would be better off, much better off, if it had twice the number of players buying half the amount of stuff than the other way around.

I was thinking of getting 2 base sets, and the command and hero blisters. I'm hoping that the spearmen and knights blisters won't be bundled with cards and/or upgrades that I might want. Do they do this for X Wing? (e.g., the X Wing fighter blister comes with cards and upgrades that is not included in the base set that also comes with an X Wing)

It is highly probable that the Knight blisters and Spearmen blisters will come with different cards than in the core set. They certainly do in X-Wing and Armada, and I expect they do in Imperial Assault (don't know for sure as I have never played it). I would suggest that you might want to get one core and some troop blisters instead of two cores. However, these are still models in the same faction so I wouldn't class this as being abusive. We do not know for certain though.

I was thinking of getting 2 base sets, and the command and hero blisters. I'm hoping that the spearmen and knights blisters won't be bundled with cards and/or upgrades that I might want. Do they do this for X Wing? (e.g., the X Wing fighter blister comes with cards and upgrades that is not included in the base set that also comes with an X Wing)

It is highly probable that the Knight blisters and Spearmen blisters will come with different cards than in the core set. They certainly do in X-Wing and Armada, and I expect they do in Imperial Assault (don't know for sure as I have never played it). I would suggest that you might want to get one core and some troop blisters instead of two cores. However, these are still models in the same faction so I wouldn't class this as being abusive. We do not know for certain though.

I can confirm that the Imperial Assault Stormtroopers expansion pack comes with stuff that isn't in the core box. I'm also assuming that RuneWars will work the same.

But even in X-Wing it's not like you really need to buy out of your faction to play the game. You could make the argument that to place well at Worlds you do, but only 16 people will manage that no matter what upgrades they have.

I agree with your sentiment about not packing cards exclusively with one faction. But you need a good collection to place well at tournaments of nearly any level, not just Worlds/National. X-Wing has a big enough and competitive enough player base that Regionals, Store Champs, and even a lot of more casual local tournaments will have strong players present in numbers.

It's not just going out of faction either, I would say to be more accurate that it's anytime you have to buy a ship you'll never use in order to get a card you will. This can also include in-faction purchases. For instance, I've got four TIE/fo's already, two from the blisters and two from the Force Awakens Core. I certainly don't need more than four, but I could sure use another Juke so I'm tempted to get another TIE/fo blister which is kind of dumb. I also need another Extra Munitions card. It comes on the TIE Punisher. I've got one of those already, and I'm highly reluctant to pick up a second on because frankly it's a very uncompetitive ship. Maybe one day it will get a fix of some sort, but right now I'm planning to buy a K-Wing instead because if I can't use the model for anything at least I can pick up some Conners with my Extra Munitions.

X-Wing in competitive games: store championship, regional, open, worlds, big tournaments out of official kits from FFG or even small shop tournament require from you to have all the material official. As people said before some cards, for example juke -current meta- or push the limit -some years ago- are the perfect upgrade for ships which don't come with this card, tie defender and tie interceptor.

On X-Wing where you play with 2-6 ships is starting to be complicated to follow the rhythm of the releases of 2 waves each year, what will happen with Runewars? several factions, armies of 200 points, blisters of 2 trays (infantry) or 1 tray (monsters, cavalry...) we are talking not about $60-100 per wave like in X-Wing, we can be talking of $300+ so not everybody is going to be able to buy all of all factions and maybe multiples, even if you don't play them.

I want to win because my strategy or because I've been lucky than you. Not because I have more money...

X-Wing in competitive games: store championship, regional, open, worlds, big tournaments out of official kits from FFG or even small shop tournament require from you to have all the material official. As people said before some cards, for example juke -current meta- or push the limit -some years ago- are the perfect upgrade for ships which don't come with this card, tie defender and tie interceptor.

On X-Wing where you play with 2-6 ships is starting to be complicated to follow the rhythm of the releases of 2 waves each year, what will happen with Runewars? several factions, armies of 200 points, blisters of 2 trays (infantry) or 1 tray (monsters, cavalry...) we are talking not about $60-100 per wave like in X-Wing, we can be talking of $300+ so not everybody is going to be able to buy all of all factions and maybe multiples, even if you don't play them.

I want to win because my strategy or because I've been lucky than you. Not because I have more money...

Welcome to the real world. I can't think of a single competitive table top war game where wanting to be in the top tier of competitors doesn't cost more than being in a lower tier. Does spending more money give you more options? Absolutely. Does having more options give you more paths to victory? Probably.

If you want to play casually with your friends, you'll need a starter set and then enough extras to get to 200 points. My friend and I are each buying a starter and then swapping out armies. That should put us really close to 200 points for $100.

If you want to play competitively, you'll need to evaluate your play style, evaluate your options and make purchasing decisions based on what you want to field. You WON'T have to buy everything. Nobody needs to buy everything. Star Wars Armada players don't buy everything. Star Wars X-Wing players don't buy everything. RuneWars players won't buy everything. Competitive play will be more expensive than casual play... but that's like saying the sky is blue and fire is hot. It was true yesterday and it'll be true tomorrow. If a unit comes out for a different faction and includes an option you just have to have, make a decision on whether or not you're willing to pay for the perceived power boost and then move on. Nobody is forcing you to make the purchase.

Manufacturers will always take advantage of a competitive player base to move more product. It would be a foolish business decision and would undermine the future viability of the game to do otherwise.

While that is all true, there are still degrees though.

Say that the company decides: "let's make one figure that's massively overpowered and charge $1000 for it".

From one point of view, this is perfect. Casual players can ignore it, tournament players will all want it to win, the company makes big profits. Everyone should be happy, right? And yet, somehow it doesn't end up working out that way. Players get soured on games that try to push too far, or just don't join in the first place which is even harder to measure.

Realistically, to be a competitive player you need to have a relatively complete collection so that if you come up with a list that you feel is your strongest option, you can field it. Maybe you've got all the pieces already and maybe not, but you generally won't have to extend very far to get those last few models/cards because you're already most of the way there.

The money saved from being low-tier is mainly that you accept fewer list building options. I don't have two full units of Fancy Fencers, Crusading Cavaliers, Super Swordsmen, and Brawny Berzerkers. I've just got maybe one unit apiece of a couple of them, and maybe an extra unit of my favorite, and I make due with that and accept that my list isn't fully maxed out in every situation. Sometimes I'll get lucky and have the best tool for the job at hand and sometimes I won't.