I hope we don't see more duplicated specs in Spy - Assasin, Gadgeteer, Charmer, Performer and Gunslinger would all fit without too much complaining... But we already have 2 duplicates with Scout and Slicer, Spy's have diverse skills but they also have specialist training, I hope all 3 are new and creative.

So true... but I think that we got infiltrator instead of assassin so that it wouldn'the be all duplicates in the core book

If we are using Bond as a reference, I could see Gambler being a Spy specialization too.

Art work of a twilek in a tux beating on a couple of Gamorian Heavies.

Dashade, Defel and Bith

Interrogator, Courier, Imposter

Deshade... That would be fun.

Something with Ranged (light) as a career skill - because Ja'amess Bondi needs his Walther.

Bith - because kark it FFG, you won't put it anywhere it seems.

Interrogator - let me make a character like Sinjir Rath Velus.

I kinda feel like Bith will be in the Engineer book. There's no way they're going to miss any of the "Cantina Aliens", and if they were in the Colonist book as "Entertainers" then Engineer for the Bith's lauded mathematical ability is almost a lock.

I'm half way betting that the Assassin tree will end up as part of the Spy career.

This is what I'm thinking too.

I am actually extremely doubtful that the Assassin will be a Spy spec, because no career so far has had more then two repeated specs, and the Spy already had its two.

I really really hope we don't get Assasin again. A Social Engineer, an undercover/tech/pistol guy, and an Interrogator with ways to hurt with Medicine.

Yes to all of that!

Noghri . . . I would love to see Noghri, however unlikely it would be.

Kubaz. Garindan was the first on-screen Star Wars spy, so it'd only be fair.

I would like to see better slicing rules.

Tons of stuff an security and how to fool it.

And lasty a social skill based spy. We need bothan spies.

I would like to see better slicing rules.

Tons of stuff an security and how to fool it.

And lasty a social skill based spy. We need bothan spies.

I would like to see better slicing rules.

Tons of stuff an security and how to fool it.

And lasty a social skill based spy. We need bothan spies.

I believe (not sure, i honestly don'te have time to do more than skim the books to know where things are when i need more info, I do pay more attention to player options though, and stuff like crafting) that they expanded the slicing rules in special modifications and the closest that we will get to what you asked for is a reprint of those

The splicing rule in SM are ... not so good. So are more expensive set of rules would be appreciated.

For races I would like to see Kubaz

For classes a social / deception based spy would be nice

For equipment garrotes, more poisons, smoke bombs

For rules safe house construction / upgrades

For scenarios some social combat at a high class party

I think personally, i'd really want a charm /ranged light or melee /athletics/ stealth specialisation .

think of the Catwoman style, i talk my way into a party, then i sneak off, climb a wall, and take the jewels from the wall, except instead of jewels, its plans to an imperial warship.

talents that give bonuses to interactions (charm, deception, coercion, negotiation), as well as a physical one (athletics, coordination, stealth, melee), probably forming two "snake" style trees, similar to the infiltrator.

I'm actually really surprised that i couldn't find a spy specialisation with stealth and charm. that's pretty much instantly what I picture for "spy"

Kubaz is a rather obvious choice for species, as well as clawdite.

I also agree with the need for a more social spy spec. I'd go with "Handler." The sort who turns and recruits assets. Who has black market contacts. Who seduces and subverts enemies. An information broker. Spec skills including charm, negotiation, coercion.

A deep cover spec could be fun. The sort focuses on cultivating a cover ID (or 2 or 3). Talents that unlock knowledge skills related to your cover, or at least help you fake it. Talents that help you become less and less likely to have your cover blown. Perhaps a talent or two that helps you charm people into accepting you and helps integrate you into the organization you are infiltrating.

Perhaps something along the lines of space surveillance. Somewhere between slicer and scout, but with piloting (space) skills you can use to spy on enemy warships, intercept transmissions, act as a courier, etc.

Or, how about a counter-intelligence agent. The anti-spy. Talents like nobody's fool, perhaps some interrogation skills (coercion) as well as an emphasis in Vigilance and Perception. This guy also might act as a more secret-service style bodyguard. If anyone gets ranged light as a spy, it's this guy. Maybe some quick-draw talents.

Beyond specs, perhaps some in-game systems on setting up spy-networks.

I'd like to see a Spy class that combines stealth and social skills to get in. In my head, an Infiltrator, isn't primarily a combatant. To me, the term Infiltrator refers to things like sleeper agents, actual spies who live in enemy territory. This involves lots of social engineering, as well as stealth, depending on the facility. So I always saw the Infiltrator as the person who is able to take on the persona needed, and effectively sell it to the enemy they are infiltrating. I was very sad, when actually reading that entry, it turned out to just be a melee combatant, with a touch of stealth way down at the expensive end of the tree. Perhaps bonuses to checks when attempting to disguise themselves as someone else. Bonuses on the skullduggery roll to make the disguise, and bonuses on the checks to pretend to be that person.

So yeah, I'd like to see a stealth/social spy concept. I don't really care if it's some "Bond" archetype, as there are plenty of other examples of spies aside from him.

4 hours ago, MadDogMitch said:

Beyond specs, perhaps some in-game systems on setting up spy-networks.

That would be fun, though I would probably just hijack the rules for crafting stuff, and tweak them a bit. Depending on the level of complexity of the network, and how wide/deep it goes, assign some level of difficulty to the roll. Perhaps on a scale of City>Country>Planet>System>Galaxy for a 1-5 dice difficulty scale. Adding setback die for things like "This system is very loyal to the Empire, so finding sympathizers will be hard, as well as trying to insert new personnel." Adding boost die for things like "This system is highly volatile, and is also a trade hub, so lots of people coming and going all the time, as well as no real loyalty set either way"

If you succeed, you've set up the network at the base level. Threat would translate to things like "This contact is very greedy, and requires +10% resources to whatever method you were paying them" or "Communication in this system is very slow. When tapping members of this network, the time it takes to get useful information is increased by 25%" etc etc. Despair would likely be things like "A few members of the network (unknown to the player/PC) are actually moles for the enemy, or are easily bribed to work for the opposition, making them a security risk"

Advantage would be things like faster responses to information requests, members doing it for less than their usual price, providing additional information beyond what was asked for, etc. Triumph would be things like proactive agents who inform you of things without having to be asked, and the information always includes some very important details. "Not only is the Planetary Governor leaving his mansion for the week, but he's taking his entire family! Apparently it's some cultural event on their home planet, so the personnel on site will be minimal staff. Perfect time to rob it!" or "The Imperial Navy has set up a presence in the system. Some friends of mine who work an asteroid belt in that sector were able to ping for some numbers, and it's not good. Looks like 2 Star Destroyers, with a full compliment of TIEs, as well as some unknown vessels that were seen orbiting the local gas giant. They suspect they are setting up an outpost over there, and warn you to be extra quiet when traveling in this system. So no dramatic escapes from customs ok?"

At least that's how I'd run it at the moment, without any concrete rules. Not sure what skill you'd roll to try and tap into the network though? I guess maybe Knowledge Underworld as a default one? Though not everyone in a spy network would necessarily be part of the "Underworld." I dunno. Anyone got any ideas on how to flesh my rules out a bit, or streamline them?

In the real world, there are multiple intelligence gathering disciplines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_intelligence_gathering_disciplines

HUMINT: Human intelligence includes interrogations, strategic debriefings, and any other intelligence that you get from talking to someone. So far, none of the spy specs we have cover this at all. It would involve charm (for building rapport), coercion, deception (not necessarily as a spec skill since spies have it as a career skill), I could see a decent argument for brawl being a spec skill, and negotiation.

SIGINT: Signals intelligence, which includes intercepting enemy communication, decryption/translation, tracing its point of origin, measuring and analyzing communication, etc. Most of this can be covered to an extent by the slicer, but the direction finding is sadly missing. More on this in a bit.

OSINT: Open Source Intelligence is what they get by stalking your facebook. Far to easily covered by slicer.

MASINT/GEOINT/IMINT: I lump all these together because they largely could be lumped into a one comprehensive spec along with the Direction Finding that some SIGINT professionals perform. These are all things that a ships sensors or a probe perform. A spec similar to the one MadDog proposed could cover all of them.

Then there's no point to intelligence gathering without analysis. There's already an analyst spec in Desperate allies, but spies couldn't go wrong having a know-it-all spec of their own. Lots of Knowledge based skills.

On 5/18/2017 at 11:02 AM, KungFuFerret said:

I'd like to see a Spy class that combines stealth and social skills to get in. In my head, an Infiltrator, isn't primarily a combatant. To me, the term Infiltrator refers to things like sleeper agents, actual spies who live in enemy territory. This involves lots of social engineering, as well as stealth, depending on the facility. So I always saw the Infiltrator as the person who is able to take on the persona needed, and effectively sell it to the enemy they are infiltrating. I was very sad, when actually reading that entry, it turned out to just be a melee combatant, with a touch of stealth way down at the expensive end of the tree. Perhaps bonuses to checks when attempting to disguise themselves as someone else. Bonuses on the skullduggery roll to make the disguise, and bonuses on the checks to pretend to be that person.

So yeah, I'd like to see a stealth/social spy concept. I don't really care if it's some "Bond" archetype, as there are plenty of other examples of spies aside from him.

That would be fun, though I would probably just hijack the rules for crafting stuff, and tweak them a bit. Depending on the level of complexity of the network, and how wide/deep it goes, assign some level of difficulty to the roll. Perhaps on a scale of City>Country>Planet>System>Galaxy for a 1-5 dice difficulty scale. Adding setback die for things like "This system is very loyal to the Empire, so finding sympathizers will be hard, as well as trying to insert new personnel." Adding boost die for things like "This system is highly volatile, and is also a trade hub, so lots of people coming and going all the time, as well as no real loyalty set either way"

If you succeed, you've set up the network at the base level. Threat would translate to things like "This contact is very greedy, and requires +10% resources to whatever method you were paying them" or "Communication in this system is very slow. When tapping members of this network, the time it takes to get useful information is increased by 25%" etc etc. Despair would likely be things like "A few members of the network (unknown to the player/PC) are actually moles for the enemy, or are easily bribed to work for the opposition, making them a security risk"

Advantage would be things like faster responses to information requests, members doing it for less than their usual price, providing additional information beyond what was asked for, etc. Triumph would be things like proactive agents who inform you of things without having to be asked, and the information always includes some very important details. "Not only is the Planetary Governor leaving his mansion for the week, but he's taking his entire family! Apparently it's some cultural event on their home planet, so the personnel on site will be minimal staff. Perfect time to rob it!" or "The Imperial Navy has set up a presence in the system. Some friends of mine who work an asteroid belt in that sector were able to ping for some numbers, and it's not good. Looks like 2 Star Destroyers, with a full compliment of TIEs, as well as some unknown vessels that were seen orbiting the local gas giant. They suspect they are setting up an outpost over there, and warn you to be extra quiet when traveling in this system. So no dramatic escapes from customs ok?"

At least that's how I'd run it at the moment, without any concrete rules. Not sure what skill you'd roll to try and tap into the network though? I guess maybe Knowledge Underworld as a default one? Though not everyone in a spy network would necessarily be part of the "Underworld." I dunno. Anyone got any ideas on how to flesh my rules out a bit, or streamline them?

Now, when I think of infiltrators, I typically think of a commando or shinobi, who infiltrate enemy positions via stealth to take out particular enemy targets to to engage in sabotage, rather than a sleeper agent.

I think it's not going to happen, but I'd like to see official noghri stats appear somewhere, not sure if this is the best place, but since soldier is done, this makes the next best sense.

13 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Now, when I think of infiltrators, I typically think of a commando or shinobi, who infiltrate enemy positions via stealth to take out particular enemy targets to to engage in sabotage, rather than a sleeper agent.

Then the Infiltrator in the book is what you want. But a Spy isn't a ninja, heck, real ninja's weren't the stereotypical ninja. They would dress like regular people, you know, so they could infiltrate the enemy facility. Dressing in solid black makes you stand out like a sore thumb. Real spies and infiltrators focused on making themselves look so normal that they blended in, and nobody would even notice they were there. Then they would accomplish whatever their task was.

On 5/26/2017 at 10:12 AM, KungFuFerret said:

Then the Infiltrator in the book is what you want. But a Spy isn't a ninja, heck, real ninja's weren't the stereotypical ninja. They would dress like regular people, you know, so they could infiltrate the enemy facility. Dressing in solid black makes you stand out like a sore thumb. Real spies and infiltrators focused on making themselves look so normal that they blended in, and nobody would even notice they were there. Then they would accomplish whatever their task was.

Actually, one of the primary jobs of Shinobi, historically, was indeed espionage, not assassination. They were spies, scouts, and saboteurs first and foremost, and only occasionally assassins. Historical Shinobi didn't dress in all black like you see in the movies.

Without looking at the name, Infiltrator isn't a terrible specialization. Frenzied Attack, Stunning Blow, Stunning Blow (Improved), Knockdown, Soft Spot, Defensive Stance, and Dodge all contribute to a pretty decent melee combat spec. It's not the best, compared to Marauder, but it isn't bad, especially if crossed with Commando or Trailblazer.

But infiltrate means to "move into (an organization, country, territory, or the like) surreptitiously and gradually, especially with hostile intent." While the "hostile intent" part is pretty well handled, Infiltrator sort of passable in the "surreptitiously and gradually" part. So, to me and some others, its a major misnomer. If it was called the Swordsman or the Striker or something, it would probably be fine.