If the SSD is twice as wide as the ISD, that would make it four times as long. I think that would be suitably huge to get the point across in Armada's relative scale.

The newcanon has gone with 19000m rather than 17600m for the Executor.

The Mel's Miniatures Executor is I think slightly flatter than that depiction :

WIDTH HEIGHT DEPTH

64.996 cm 16.346 cm 3.626 cm

which corresponds to (Using 64.996 cm = 19 km) 19 km x 4.77 km x 1.06 km.

yeah I know, I just took a pictrue that shows that even at 17600 its much more than four time the length.

...there can be found arguments for why it shouldn't be done...game balance, pet peeves, whatever...

...but the real question is: can it be done?

You know the answer to that one: yes. If FFG feels like it, they can A) make a model of a suitable size B) make it so that it's playable "epic" scale, but not 400 pt tournament C) have it come with enoguh interesting upgrades everyone will want it.

And if it can be done, it will be done.

You can quote me on that later

yeah I know, I just took a pictrue that shows that even at 17600 its much more than four time the length.

Of course. But it wouldn't be the first time scale was fudged - the CR-90 is more like 1/11 the length of an ISD, but the game represents it as between 1/3 and 1/4 or so.

Question is, how much size fudging can you get away with.

If you want no size fudging at all - you'll probably have to play in a different scale.

I like the notion of using Armada rules as proxies for proper-scale models.

Executor-class would use the rules for the Victory-I (thus, concussion missiles).

ISD squadron/MC80 squadron would use the rules for one of the TIE squadrons or Rebel squadrons (thus, lots of ships needed to do any real damage to SSD)

And so forth.

The SSD is 10 times longer (and hugely more massive) than the ISD...

...pretty much like the ISD is 10 times longer (and hugely more massive) that the CR90...

which is more than 10 times longer than an X-wing (and hugely more massive).

Or, put another way, the A-wing clocks in at 9.6 meters, and is still able to taking down an 8km, 17.6km, 19km, howeverlongyouwant SSD...

So please, no more whining over scale or massively disproportionate combat power!

I wouldn't mind seeing a SSD come to the game. If they were able to introduce large ships to X-wing then this is feasible. I don't see it being tournament legal or anything (others have mentioned epic play possibilities).

The issues I see are obvious: the size, and therefore the possibility of a play space size increase. Who has a table that large to play on? I've got one friend with a table big enough for regular armada games as it is, with maybe an extra foot and a half for extra space on one side. I don't know if that extra length would matter (that's what she said), when the width for turning would be the main issue.

Of course this assumes movement of the piece at all. When I played X-wing regularly we had the idea to cut out and paint a piece of cardboard to look like a section of a Star Destroyer. We were going to place this alongside the imperial player's starting edge and have his team emerge from it. The makeshift SD had energy and a longer shot radius (similar to the X-wing larger ships). We were working on the finer details of it all when we got burnt out on X-wing.

But the point is that the section would never move. That makes sense within the game of X-wing, but would it for Armada? I don't think so, simply because you could snag whatever points you could and then reduce your speed to zero outside of the SSD's range and wait out a win. That's no fun.

So a new form of movement is a must for a larger ship (not impossible, again X-wing did it), but most games with the CR-90 and the Raider required a bigger game space. I just don't know if the average home, or even average venue, could accommodate that, even if they shrank the SSD's scale.

If they do it, I sure hope they include a "cinematic" campaign like X-wing's larger ships. Those were a good time.

Or, put another way, the A-wing clocks in at 9.6 meters, and is still able to taking down an 8km, 17.6km, 19km, howeverlongyouwant SSD...

So please, no more whining over scale or massively disproportionate combat power!

Why do people pretend like one lone A-Wing took down the Executor? Let's not forget that General Nadine was leading a task force of eight Mon Cal cruisers to pummel the Executor relentlessly while Green Squadron and Blue Squadron attacked the port and starboard power trees ("shield generators") respectively. All of this is even in the original movie scripts and you can find deleted scenes and pilot test footage that portray a lot of this. Even with much of the dialogue and pilot scenes and Nadine command scene cut-out of the film, you still see an entire pod of Mon Cals descending upon the Executor.

One lone A-Wing would have accomplished nothing against the Executor. But the efforts of one lone A-Wing, who has the benefit of the SSD's shields being crippled by eight star-cruisers, it's projectors being destroyed by the efforts of two entire Flight Groups, and it's attention and fire being spread amongst a host of targets (including several other fighters flying alongside Arvel), can make a different. Of course, at that point it's not one lone A-Wing it's more like 1,600+ points of Armada stuff.

Or, put another way, the A-wing clocks in at 9.6 meters, and is still able to taking down an 8km, 17.6km, 19km, howeverlongyouwant SSD...

So please, no more whining over scale or massively disproportionate combat power!

Why do people pretend like one lone A-Wing took down the Executor? Let's not forget that General Nadine was leading a task force of eight Mon Cal cruisers to pummel the Executor relentlessly while Green Squadron and Blue Squadron attacked the port and starboard power trees ("shield generators") respectively. All of this is even in the original movie scripts and you can find deleted scenes and pilot test footage that portray a lot of this. Even with much of the dialogue and pilot scenes and Nadine command scene cut-out of the film, you still see an entire pod of Mon Cals descending upon the Executor.

One lone A-Wing would have accomplished nothing against the Executor. But the efforts of one lone A-Wing, who has the benefit of the SSD's shields being crippled by eight star-cruisers, it's projectors being destroyed by the efforts of two entire Flight Groups, and it's attention and fire being spread amongst a host of targets (including several other fighters flying alongside Arvel), can make a different. Of course, at that point it's not one lone A-Wing it's more like 1,600+ points of Armada stuff.

All I got from this is Arvel Crynyd should be able to one shot a SSD, then you remove him from the game.

Or, put another way, the A-wing clocks in at 9.6 meters, and is still able to taking down an 8km, 17.6km, 19km, howeverlongyouwant SSD...

So please, no more whining over scale or massively disproportionate combat power!

Why do people pretend like one lone A-Wing took down the Executor? Let's not forget that General Nadine was leading a task force of eight Mon Cal cruisers to pummel the Executor relentlessly while Green Squadron and Blue Squadron attacked the port and starboard power trees ("shield generators") respectively. All of this is even in the original movie scripts and you can find deleted scenes and pilot test footage that portray a lot of this. Even with much of the dialogue and pilot scenes and Nadine command scene cut-out of the film, you still see an entire pod of Mon Cals descending upon the Executor.

One lone A-Wing would have accomplished nothing against the Executor. But the efforts of one lone A-Wing, who has the benefit of the SSD's shields being crippled by eight star-cruisers, it's projectors being destroyed by the efforts of two entire Flight Groups, and it's attention and fire being spread amongst a host of targets (including several other fighters flying alongside Arvel), can make a different. Of course, at that point it's not one lone A-Wing it's more like 1,600+ points of Armada stuff.

...because we all saw one A-wing take it down?

I mean, we hear Acky calling for the fleet to concentrate their fire own the Executor, but it's still the A-wing that takes her down.

(or maybe we should credit the DS2? if it wasn't there, maybe the Executor wouldn't have crashed?)

Anyway, that wasn't the point at all. The point is that if this game has room for everything from 9.6 meter fighters to 1.6km SDs, then it can fit in an SSD as well.

If there was any miniatures game that could pull off the SSD, Armada is it. But that isn't the important thing - the important thing is will a model that is ~5 times the length of an ISD make profit. If it will, it will get made. I'd buy one, if my opinion counts.

(I figure 5x ISD length is about the right balance between the demands of scale and practicality)

If there was any miniatures game that could pull off the SSD, Armada is it. But that isn't the important thing - the important thing is will a model that is ~5 times the length of an ISD make profit. If it will, it will get made. I'd buy one, if my opinion counts.

(I figure 5x ISD length is about the right balance between the demands of scale and practicality)

If memory serves (and I'm at work without my models, so memory may be serving poorly), the ISD model is about 9 inches long. 5x that length would make an SSD almost 4 feet long. That's longer than the width of the game area. I don't really see how that serves practicality at all. This is obviously the crux of the problem that this endless debate is dealing with. I would love to have an SSD, but if the thing ends up only 18 inches long in order to make it usable on an Armada table, it won't look right next to an ISD at all. Due to it's longer sleeker shape, it may end up nearly the same width at that length. If they can find a way to pull it off to make it playable (without making me figure out how to get a 6x6 table) and still look good next to everything else, I'm all in. If anyone can figure that out, it's FFG. But it's a tough one.

(I figure 5x ISD length is about the right balance between the demands of scale and practicality)

Mel's model was only 3x ISD length and still over 2 ft long. 5x ISD length might be pushing it:

Maybe there's some things that just shouldn't make it into Star Wars miniature games. I feel like the SSD is one of those. I feel like if they did it, it would have one thing everyone would be unhappy about (that one thing depending on the individual asked).

That doesn't mean we couldn't receive something of a giant ship. FFG made up the Raider class for X-wing and the powers that be accepted it. So maybe we could receive some new class of larger ship around sixteen inches in length or so on the table. A class of ship between the ISD and the SSD. You know a class of ship like that should exist.

I wouldn't hate that.

maybe we could receive some new class of larger ship around sixteen inches in length or so on the table. A class of ship between the ISD and the SSD. You know a class of ship like that should exist.

I wouldn't hate that.

The Resurgent's just the right size I'd say.

maybe we could receive some new class of larger ship around sixteen inches in length or so on the table. A class of ship between the ISD and the SSD. You know a class of ship like that should exist.

I wouldn't hate that.

The Resurgent's just the right size I'd say.[/quate]

maybe we could receive some new class of larger ship around sixteen inches in length or so on the table. A class of ship between the ISD and the SSD. You know a class of ship like that should exist.

I wouldn't hate that.

The Resurgent's just the right size I'd say.

Actually I think that would be the correct length when compared to the ISD

I know I am probably in the minority here (tomato shields up) when I say that I still prefer the 8km SSD, simply because that was how it was established in West End Games Star Wars the Role Playing Game (back when dinos ruled the Earth).

However, when I finally get down to building my CG SSD, I will adhere to the 19.2km SSD that seems to have become the canon length.

@martok2112 was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life.

He had such a knowledge of the dark side, he could even keep the threads he cared about from dying.

When people just dont care about your opinion, rather the fact you have practiced

THREAD NECROMANCY!!!!!!!

(Not meant as offensive @martok2112 )

21 hours ago, martok2112 said:

I know I am probably in the minority here (tomato shields up) when I say that I still prefer the 8km SSD, simply because that was how it was established in West End Games Star Wars the Role Playing Game (back when dinos ruled the Earth).

"I agree."

Gaaahhhh!!! I guess I should've looked to see how old this thread was, and how long it had been since anyone posted.

The art of Accidental Necrothreadmancy is not an exact science.

To be honest, I found this thread because I was looking to see if there was any info on a possible SSD for Armada. I'd love to have that as a miniature. I have one from a previous miniatures battle game by a different company, and it's not too bad, but I know the Armada miniature builders would do it even better.

Thanks for the replies and likes, folks. They made my day.