As a newcomer to the game, I'm looking for a clan to "join" that I can really learn about and love. I'm wondering about the story arc of the Mantis clan because it's a clan I want to like...but the story arc on l5r.com is a bit of a turn of for me. The story arc there makes Mantis sound like childish whiners. They feel disrespected, their champion is nicknamed "sour disposition" because people don't openly acknowledge his clan as the best, and he won't ever rest until all Rokugan acknowledge Mantis as equals, which to him means that Mantis "stands above" the rest. So is Mantis championed by a self-centered ego maniac? According to l5r.com, Mantis profess not to care what others think about them, but they are in fact deeply bothered by other clans possibly looking own on them. Sounds like vain childish behavior to me.

I'm trying to put a cool spin on these story elements because I want to like Mantis, but I'm struggling a bit. How do you Mantis players interpret the story? Thanks. (and sorry if I've offended anyone's honor, I'm just simply trying to understand what I may be missing here)

As one of the harshest critics of the Mantis as portrayed...

For good and for ill, the Mantis are sorta the Ric Flair of Rokugan: "If you don't like it, learn to love it." While far too much of their portrayal was from the angle of the Yoritomo family, the Yoritomo-led Mantis are very much of the "no one would dare, huh? Let me take a whack at it" persuasion. They're all about audacity in a culture where most people are about conformity. The fact that the Moshi, Tsuruchi, and Kitsune all have a different approach and worldview is often unfortunately swept under the rug, and if the Mantis had ever really been shown to draw strength from their internal diversity, I suspect a lot of us would like them more, because each of the four families of the Mantis has something cool and unique to offer.

Note, however, that your initial impression is one I personally hold, which is why I'm very much NOT a fan.

If you want an "outsider" clan that is a little less whiny and emo, check out Unicorn.

Well, tell us what you look for in a Clan, I'm sure we could direct you to the clan you belong to.

What I look for in a clan....

Well first, I think I would like a clan that matches my style of game play: I don't do good with drama, tricks, or complex sophisticated plans that take a long time to pull off (I like tricks and complex plans, I just suck at making them work) With any game I play, I tend to favor brute strength and power over evasiveness and slipperiness. I often bide my time without being overly aggressive, then strike when I see a weakness in my opponent's game. Rather than making plays that create uncertainty and complexity in the game, I often play to simplify a game. I guess you could say I like to take away my opponent's options and force him/her to play the game my way.

Next, I think I would like a clan that fits my own personality a bit. I'm a pretty simple guy. I'm quiet and reserved, mostly because I'm prone to offend people when I talk because I'm always very blunt and I suck at saying things in a way that is tactful. I value loyalty and integrity. My personal life philosophy is much more on the side of "A good traveler has no fixed plan and is not intent on arriving" than "I am the master of my fate and the captain of my destiny" (the latter seeming quite Mantis-y if I'm not mistaken).

And finally I'm interested in really liking the story arc behind the clan. I don't want a clan history full of pride and seeking contention. I don't like bad guys. I like good guys that keep the peace honorably and follow the credo "death before dishonor." I like characters who don't wear their hearts on the sleeves, but quietly go about their business doing what they know is right, even if they are woefully misunderstood and shunned.

Cheers

(it took me some time to write all this out and articulate it well....so yeah, I have to admit I'm a perfectionist, even if I'm not proud of it....is there a perfectionist clan?)

The fact that the Moshi, Tsuruchi, and Kitsune all have a different approach and worldview is often unfortunately swept under the rug, and if the Mantis had ever really been shown to draw strength from their internal diversity, I suspect a lot of us would like them more, because each of the four families of the Mantis has something cool and unique to offer.

One of the many sins of Story Teams past.

This is my response to your post over at the Kobune Port.

This is my response to your post over at the Kobune Port.

Thanks. You may have noticed how I toned down the question a bit here. Point in case, my ability to offend people and the suckiness of my tact.

With any game I play, I tend to favor brute strength and power over evasiveness and slipperiness.

Lion and Crab

I often bide my time without being overly aggressive, then strike when I see a weakness in my opponent's game. Rather than making plays that create uncertainty and complexity in the game, I often play to simplify a game. I guess you could say I like to take away my opponent's options and force him/her to play the game my way.

Scorpion and some jerk Dragon decks.

Next, I think I would like a clan that fits my own personality a bit. I'm a pretty simple guy. I'm quiet and reserved, mostly because I'm prone to offend people when I talk because I'm always very blunt and I suck at saying things in a way that is tactful. I value loyalty and integrity.

Crab and Unicorn

My personal life philosophy is much more on the side of "A good traveler has no fixed plan and is not intent on arriving"

Unicorn

And finally I'm interested in really liking the story arc behind the clan. I don't want a clan history full of pride and seeking contention. I don't like bad guys. I like good guys that keep the peace honorably and follow the credo "death before dishonor." I like characters who don't wear their hearts on the sleeves, but quietly go about their business doing what they know is right, even if they are woefully misunderstood and shunned.

All of the Clans at some point over the last twenty years.

....is there a perfectionist clan?

Crane

Also unclear if mantis will be around or not. And how much FFG chooses to follow the Onyx storyline. I'd wait for a while. I sure once game is actually done and on the way they will do Clan specific preview articles.

Also unclear if mantis will be around or not. And how much FFG chooses to follow the Onyx storyline. I'd wait for a while. I sure once game is actually done and on the way they will do Clan specific preview articles.

To be honest, I'm not planning on purchasing/playing the L5R product FFG is creating. I think I'd rather play a "dead" CCG, with variable boosters and old school collectible Common/Uncommon/Rare cards, then play any of the current LCGs. For me, there's just something missing from these new LCG games. Even though the games themselves are good (for the most part), I was missing out on the entire aspect of collecting cards, which for me was always half the fun.

And even if I do decide to play the new LCG, I want to have understood and played the old game somewhat so that I can better appreciate the game and story arc overall.

What I look for in a clan....

Oh boy, you are totally looking for the Lion Clan.

What I look for in a clan....

Oh boy, you are totally looking for the Lion Clan.

My own interpretation is Crab. In most Lion decks, there is a good deal of setup necessary. Crab us much more straightforward most of the time.

What I look for in a clan....

There 's a bit for Lion, Unicorn, and Dragon, but I'd say most of what you describe points towards the Crab Clan.

Based on your description I'm inclined to recommend the Crab and not just because of my rather obvious bias.

The one thing that gives me pause is your preference for "death before dishonor" since the Crab are very pragmatic in our war against the Shadowlands. We employ many behaviors the rest of Rokugan considers unseemly because they are effective and to not use them would be a dereliction of duty. The primary examples I can think of include our preference for clubs, axes, and hammers over katana, our use of siege weapons, our tendency to bring weapons into areas where doing so would be an insult, and the experiments the Kuni perform to increase their knowledge of anatomy.

If you're willing to consider defunct versions of the game I'd highly recommend looking at Crab Berserkers during Emperor Edition. They had a brutal simplicity that I always enjoyed.

Yeah, philosophically, you sound like you might like the Shiba of the Phoenix Clan... but their decks were often something of a train wreck of moving parts, and the Phoenix were either absent or mind-bogglingly (and incomprehensibly) arrogant for large chunks of the story... when they showed up at all.

Crab or Lion would be my suggestion- with the caveat that every clan has its darker aspects. Dig too deep with any of them and you'll find plenty of ugliness.

Fantastic responses. Thanks everyone.

Every clan's got their dark side, true. But they've also got the side that makes their players fall in love with them and never look back.

Are the Mantis arrogant? Sure. Self-centered? They can be. Greedy to the point of self-parody? Sometimes.

But they are the most daring family in Rokugan, with the possible exception of the Hiruma, and they care deeply for each other.

The surest way to get the Mantis to do something is to tell them they can't. After all, this is the clan that went from being an alliance of necessity to a Great Clan by sheer force of will. This is the clan that, when called upon in a great time of need, had their champion look at his battered soldiers and refuse to send them into battle to die, sending himself on the suicide mission instead. This is a clan without a patron kami - instead, their founder rose to the celestial heavens, taking his place among the gods. This is a clan that has to fight and scrap for every little crumb of respect they get, and they're better for it.

The point about the other Mantis families is well taken, however. The Yoritomo (Mantis) steal most of the thunder, but the other families have deep and rich histories as well. The Moshi (Centipede) are a matriarchal society that specializes in shugenja that lights everything on fire. Judging from their flavor text, they also teach "snark" at Moshi schools. The Kitsune (Fox) can speak to spirit animals and one of their most famous leaders not only relentless pursued her undead abomination of a father, but succeeded in taking down the Great Kumo sea spider that had been ravaging the coasts of Rokugan since time immemorable. It took the Shadow Dragon itself to kill her, and even then, it waited to ambush her (probably because it couldn't take her in a straight fight). Finally, the Tsuruchi (Wasp) were founded by the best archer to ever live, and they each try to live up to him. It's not a question of "if" they will hit their targets, it's "where" and "how many times". It's not uncommon to see one casually shoot out the eyes of a charging Oni, or put on a blindfold and shoot every apple out of a tree, or anything else that generally makes Robin Hood cry and re-think his life choices. They are also some of the most feared magistrates in the emerald empire - there are criminals who would rather be hunted by Scorpions than Wasps.

So there you go! A little treatise on the Mantis. You take the good with the bad (are they boorish louts, or are they simply unafraid to take risks?), and you make your decisions as informed as you can.

The others:

Crab: Violent miscreants or dedicated guardians?

Crane: Foppish, whiny courtiers who hide behind their duelists, or a clan that strives for perfection in all things?

Dragon: Incomprehensible idiots or wise mystics?

Lion: Honor-Before-Reason personified, or brilliant military tacticians?

Phoenix: Arrogant hoarders of knowledge or diligent truth-seekers?

Scorpion: Untrustworthy backstabbers or the only ones willing to do anything - ANYTHING - to keep the empire safe?

Unicorn: Uncultured barbarians who can't function without their horsies, or proud and fierce explorers and warriors?

Some excellent points have been made already. The only thing I'd like to add is that to understand the attitude of the Mantis (as well as the attitudes of other clans towards them), you need to understand the origin of the clans.

As a VERY brief summary, when the Kami came to Rokugan, they attracted followers who formed the Major Clans of Crab, Crane, Dragon, Lion, Phoenix, Scorpion, and Unicorn (even the Spider can, in their own way, claim Fu Leng as their founder). Other clans which did not follow a particular Kami (but still lived in Rokugan) were Minor Clans, of which there were many.

The Mantis clan, you'll notice, was not originally a Major Clan ! Rather, Yoritomo formed an alliance of several minor clans, and through sheer determination and power (rather than divine right), forced recognition of his group as a Major Clan. The fact that they don't have the divine founding of the other clans, I believe, is one of the reasons many Mantis have the attitudes they do. All the other clans can point to their founder and say, "<insert name of Kami> founded us, so that's why we deserve to be a Major Clan!" The Mantis (in the view of many) only deserve to be a Major Clan so long as they continue to prove themselves worthy of the honor.

This belief is by no means universal, but I imagine it does affect the views of many Rokugani towards the Mantis, both inside and outside the clan.