What do you think about this? This is my group:

1. Fenn Signis
2. Gideon Argus
3. Verena
4. Loku/MHD-19/Diala?

Who would you choose to as the fourth hero? Which one is the best group for you?

I wouldn't pick Loku to clean toilets, he'd mess that up. MHD-19 is good but you already have Gideon, and while they don't really overlap much in abilities they are both support, but with Fenn being master stroked every turn MHD-19's lower damage won't really hurt the party. Diala is always solid, her ability to give rerolls is one of the best in the game.

In my opinion, the best group consists of Diala, Gideon, and then some combination of Gaarkhan, Verena (tho not both Gaarkhan & Verena), Fenn, or Mak (Jyn is close to making the cut but i find her too squishy, and Davith might make the cut but i dont have enough experience with him yet).

In my opinion, the best group consists of Diala, Gideon, and then some combination of Gaarkhan, Verena (tho not both Gaarkhan & Verena), Fenn, or Mak (Jyn is close to making the cut but i find her too squishy, and Davith might make the cut but i dont have enough experience with him yet).

Why not Gaarkhan and Verena? Sorry for the silly question ,but I have never played Verena).

Are Biv and Saska so bad?

In my opinion, the best group consists of Diala, Gideon, and then some combination of Gaarkhan, Verena (tho not both Gaarkhan & Verena), Fenn, or Mak (Jyn is close to making the cut but i find her too squishy, and Davith might make the cut but i dont have enough experience with him yet).

Why not Gaarkhan and Verena? Sorry for the silly question ,but I have never played Verena).

Are Biv and Saska so bad?

Gaarkhan and Verena are both (typically) melee characters that like to be beside multiple enemies. So they'll be competing for space and melee weapon cards/mods from the supply deck. Gaarkhan also has strain issues so simply isn't as good as Verena, so there is that too.

Biv and Saska are tier 2 heroes, Gaarkhan is too. They're not bad, they're just not as good as alternatives.

Biv can do some great burst damage and hit single targets REALLY REALLY hard and if there were more really hard to kill enemies in the game he'd be better, but hitting a 3 wound trooper for 9 damage isn't really as useful as hitting 3 troopers for 4 at the same time. Biv can also have some strain issues.

Saska's extra damage ability is probably a bit too weak and unreliable, and she's sort of hard to use, you really need to make the most of all of her abilities. She really needs to be paired up with MHD-19 or maybe an aggressively played Murn.

I've played through Bespin with and against Davith and he seems like an under performer too. I'm not going to completely write him off without playing a full campaign with him, I think he might just be harder to use like Saska, but he's definitely not a top shelf hero.

I think Jyn is an absolute beast. She destroys 5 health targets when she starts rolling mid-game and definitely late game. Her initial can be a little weak.

Diala, Fenn, and Gideon are pretty much a standard. Then the next after that is whoever you feel. I agree, MHD-19 and you won't have enough damage in my opinion. I'd suggest Jyn, Mak, Loku, Biv, Gaarkhan or Verana. Any of those 6 with the other 3 are a good solid team.

~D

As others have said, Dialia, Fenn and Gideon are the staples for a 'most powerful' squad.. and I honestly like Jyn as the fourth. Dialia and Fenn have the two most OP 1 xp abilities in the game with Tactical Movement and the re roll ability, Gideon just throws out extra attacks/moves like candy after you get 4 XP and Jyn is great for her speed, quick shot set ups and missions that require ability tests.. what is the term I want there it is escaping me right now. Anyway, you get the picture.

I hate always having to fight against Fenn as the Imperial, Blast is such a menace and always having to watch where I leave guys gets so old. But I think late game Way of The Sarlacc with Diala is much worse.. that one is a real pain to avoid.

In my opinion, the best group consists of Diala, Gideon, and then some combination of Gaarkhan, Verena (tho not both Gaarkhan & Verena), Fenn, or Mak (Jyn is close to making the cut but i find her too squishy, and Davith might make the cut but i dont have enough experience with him yet).

Why not Gaarkhan and Verena? Sorry for the silly question ,but I have never played Verena).

Are Biv and Saska so bad?

Gaarkhan and Verena are both (typically) melee characters that like to be beside multiple enemies. So they'll be competing for space and melee weapon cards/mods from the supply deck. Gaarkhan also has strain issues so simply isn't as good as Verena, so there is that too.

Biv and Saska are tier 2 heroes, Gaarkhan is too. They're not bad, they're just not as good as alternatives.

Biv can do some great burst damage and hit single targets REALLY REALLY hard and if there were more really hard to kill enemies in the game he'd be better, but hitting a 3 wound trooper for 9 damage isn't really as useful as hitting 3 troopers for 4 at the same time. Biv can also have some strain issues.

Saska's extra damage ability is probably a bit too weak and unreliable, and she's sort of hard to use, you really need to make the most of all of her abilities. She really needs to be paired up with MHD-19 or maybe an aggressively played Murn.

I've played through Bespin with and against Davith and he seems like an under performer too. I'm not going to completely write him off without playing a full campaign with him, I think he might just be harder to use like Saska, but he's definitely not a top shelf hero.

Thanks for the explanation!

About "Biv and Saska are tier 2 heroes".

what are so Tier 3 heroes?

In my opinion, the best group consists of Diala, Gideon, and then some combination of Gaarkhan, Verena (tho not both Gaarkhan & Verena), Fenn, or Mak (Jyn is close to making the cut but i find her too squishy, and Davith might make the cut but i dont have enough experience with him yet).

Why not Gaarkhan and Verena? Sorry for the silly question ,but I have never played Verena).

Are Biv and Saska so bad?

Gaarkhan and Verena are both (typically) melee characters that like to be beside multiple enemies. So they'll be competing for space and melee weapon cards/mods from the supply deck. Gaarkhan also has strain issues so simply isn't as good as Verena, so there is that too.

Biv and Saska are tier 2 heroes, Gaarkhan is too. They're not bad, they're just not as good as alternatives.

Biv can do some great burst damage and hit single targets REALLY REALLY hard and if there were more really hard to kill enemies in the game he'd be better, but hitting a 3 wound trooper for 9 damage isn't really as useful as hitting 3 troopers for 4 at the same time. Biv can also have some strain issues.

Saska's extra damage ability is probably a bit too weak and unreliable, and she's sort of hard to use, you really need to make the most of all of her abilities. She really needs to be paired up with MHD-19 or maybe an aggressively played Murn.

I've played through Bespin with and against Davith and he seems like an under performer too. I'm not going to completely write him off without playing a full campaign with him, I think he might just be harder to use like Saska, but he's definitely not a top shelf hero.

Thanks for the explanation!

About "Biv and Saska are tier 2 heroes".

what are so Tier 3 heroes?

Loku stands alone at tier 3 as the worst character in the game by far. Although I'm expecting Onar will join him but we've only seen his card so far, not his deck. He's a semi-support character like Saska and Diala, but he can't contribute anywhere close to as well as Diala and not as well as Saska either.

He has good starting endurance and speed but they can't be improved. His deck is bad. He's hamstrung by only having 2 recon tokens. He has the worst hero abilities.

The 2 strain Set Your Sights will almost never be useful, either being wasted in overkill or only ending up doing 1 extra damage. Doing an average of less than 1 extra damage at a cost of 2 strain is the most overpriced ability in the game, most heroes get an entire extra attack for 2 strain! On top of 2 strain however it ALSO costs a recon token, of which you only have 2. You have to buy the 4 XP Mon Cala Special Forces to make this ability as good as other character's starting abilities!

The +2 accuracy is almost never useful. Range just isn't that important in IA, even with the new hide mechanic. The only time you might get your worth out of this is with the pistol that shoots 3 times that has lousy accuracy. But since you lose this ability when you get wounded, you can't rely on having it like you need to.

Loku's deck sucks. He doesn't have an extra attack ability like most Heroes. His 2 strain "extra attack" ability just adds an extra die to an attack against a target with a recon token on it. That's okay for that 1 time in 50 you're attacking Vader or an AT-ST but worthless 98% of the time you'll just be massively overkilling that trooper with 3 health.

His support cards are decent, or would be if not gimped by recon tokens. Allowing opening a crate for a strain is probably the best ability he has, and Scout's Guidance giving a character +evade is also pretty good. But they both require tokens. If you're using these 2 abilities, guess what you're NOT doing? ANY of his other abilities that also require using those tokens. If you Scout's Guidance 2 characters, your ENTIRE DECK becomes useless. Yup, give just 2 characters +evade... and you have NO OTHER special abilities. Wow, bad.

I thought Loku was stronger, at the end he is a support, but at that point, better taking Gideon.

So, approximately, can we split heroes in 3 groups?

Like

1 (Best to choose for a group): Diala, Gideon, Fenn, Mak, Verana

2 (not as good) Biv, Saska, Gaar, MHD (?)

3 (bad) Loku

?

Hmm. I don't think Loku is as bad as you say. Sure, you don't want to put a recon token on a regular Stormtrooper, but putting it on something with more health will often result in several extra points of damage, as well as allowing surges to be spent on other things like stunning or recovering strain. And, at least in Hoth, you often have to kill things with more than 3 health.

A flat +1 damage, especially early in the campaign, is pretty powerful. Not many characters get that kind of reliability.

I haven't played with him a ton, but I do agree that a lot of his class cards seem underwhelming. I'll have to see though. He hasn't seemed that weak to me.

A flat +1 damage, especially early in the campaign, is pretty powerful. Not many characters get that kind of reliability.

Basically all of them do. Look at Fenn, in the very first mission his double attack on the middle trooper will mean for 2 strain he's getting 4 extra damage from using blast 1 twice. He'll do more in the first round for 2 strain than Loku will do with his ability in the entire mission! And then Fenn getting a strain back every turn >>>>> +2 accuracy. It's not even close here, Loku is just completely out classed.

Diala's 2 strain ability I rarely use because it's a bit on the weak side... and on average it will do more than twice what Loku's will do!

Gaarkhan is a bit harder comparison but his abilities are still I think significantly better and he's a tier 2 hero.

Gideon is less obvious, but what happens is that you save tons of credits not buying him a weapon... and then Fenn takes the shot with his shiny awesome best gun... and gets his blast yet again! WAY better than Loku.

Jynn, an ENTIRE ATTACK for the same cost as Loku's maybe 1 damage which will probably give you a surge so only costing 1, AND giving you a movement point. This is so much better than Loku's it's silly.

Mak, pierce 2 for 1 strain vs. Loku's 1 damage for 2 strain. Even if you have to use 2 strain on Mak every turn positioning him to get the shot off, it's still cheaper than Loku.

I thought Loku was stronger, at the end he is a support, but at that point, better taking Gideon.

So, approximately, can we split heroes in 3 groups?

Like

1 (Best to choose for a group): Diala, Gideon, Fenn, Mak, Verana

2 (not as good) Biv, Saska, Gaar, MHD (?)

3 (bad) Loku

?

Jynn is tier 1. Davith is tier 2 but trying really hard for tier 3. Murn is probably tier 1, but just not as good as Gideon in the same role so you might call her tier 2, same thing with MHD-19. Gideon is just a beast.

This is my tier ranking:

A+: Diala, Gideon, Fenn

A: Mak, Jyn, Gaarkan, Verena, Murne

B: Biv, Saska, Loku, MHD-19

Not Sure Yet: Davith

- Fenn only makes tier A+ with a specific item setup imo. He needs a 2 mod weapon with the blast mod and a damage mod. With those he is godly, if not, he is A tier. Jyn needs DL-44 or else she is only mediocre. Verena needs to be kind of a loot hog before she really shines (as she needs high damage to get kills/chain kills). She needs a strong ranged weapon and a cleave melee weapon, preferably both with mods.

- I have only seen Murne played briefly, but she has been impressive so she is likely A tier tho not positive.

- Saska could be C tier, but if you play her more as a hybrid and fully utilize her extra mod slot, she can do work.
- I definite disagree that Loku would be C tier, his abilities are highly underrated and he can do work, but Mak can do the same work and is more survivable.
- I have played MHD-19 in only one full campaign, it is very polarizing - in some missions, it will be A and sometimes C, so it is hard to accurately place, and I also need to play with it more.

- I have yet to finish a campaign with Davith so I can't place him. But, I think the shrouded lightsaber is a trap, and I also think he is much better in a full campaign than just a mini campaign. He has a very strong deck and with the right items I do think he could be quite strong.

Jyn needs DL-44 or else she is only mediocre.

She one shots almost everything non-unique.

~D

I find people seem to underrate Loku more than just about any other hero. Union, you're right that in that one specific scenario (the opening of the very first mission, with no upgrades and a bunch of regular troopers) Fenn's blast is more valuable than Loku's +1 damage. But how many missions have a final objective of killing some high-health figure? In these missions (which often include the finales) Loku's recon tokens are absolutely invaluable. What you're missing is that it's not just +1 damage on Loku's attacks, it's +1 dame on every attack. Sure that doesn't matter for killing a bunch of normal troopers who will die right away, but that's not his niche.

I also find that people tend to completely ignore what I consider his best ability - using a strain (and no actions) to put a recon token on a crate, allowing that crate to be picked up without using one of your two actions. The items from crates can completely swing a mission for the rebels, and even if you get a bad draw you can't overstate how much help an extra 200 credits per mission can be over a long campaign.

Now I'm not saying that he's far and away the best rebel in the game or anything, but I definitely don't see him as a tier two or tier three hero. As part of the right group of four heroes, if you play him well and play to his strengths I think you'll find that he can really shine.

Jyn needs DL-44 or else she is only mediocre.

Sporting Blaster w/Disruption Cell + Disruptor Pistol + Gunslinger = godly

She one shots almost everything non-unique.

~D

Disruptor pistol does finally give Jyn another good option for a good offhand, but since it is tier 3, it will still hurt if she misses the DL-44.

I find people seem to underrate Loku more than just about any other hero. Union, you're right that in that one specific scenario (the opening of the very first mission, with no upgrades and a bunch of regular troopers) Fenn's blast is more valuable than Loku's +1 damage. But how many missions have a final objective of killing some high-health figure? In these missions (which often include the finales) Loku's recon tokens are absolutely invaluable. What you're missing is that it's not just +1 damage on Loku's attacks, it's +1 dame on every attack. Sure that doesn't matter for killing a bunch of normal troopers who will die right away, but that's not his niche.

I also find that people tend to completely ignore what I consider his best ability - using a strain (and no actions) to put a recon token on a crate, allowing that crate to be picked up without using one of your two actions. The items from crates can completely swing a mission for the rebels, and even if you get a bad draw you can't overstate how much help an extra 200 credits per mission can be over a long campaign.

Now I'm not saying that he's far and away the best rebel in the game or anything, but I definitely don't see him as a tier two or tier three hero. As part of the right group of four heroes, if you play him well and play to his strengths I think you'll find that he can really shine.

Also, Fenn's blast is conditional - you have to deal damage to use it, and there has to be units next to each other for him to shoot. Loku's is just a +1 damage on any target he can see, for every attack targeting that figure.

Even adding a Green die to an attack isn't guaranteed to add a damage - you might get a surge you can't use. And that's why I think Loku can be pretty good - between his +1 damage and added accuracy, he's reliable. Maybe not the strongest, but reliably decent.

And (as I saw on a forum on BGG), if you manage to get his side mission he can be really strong. If you get 2 recon tokens next to each other, that's +2 damage on any attack targeting either figure. And you can do that with his ability that lets you place recon tokens for a surge.

Also, having 5 speed is pretty useful.

I've been facing off against Loku in my campaign at the moment, and he's really handy at getting that extra 1 damage on things.

You remember all those times the rebels attack stuff, and leave them 1 health away from dead?

Loku really helps with that issue. I mean alot

I've been facing off against Loku in my campaign at the moment, and he's really handy at getting that extra 1 damage on things.

You remember all those times the rebels attack stuff, and leave them 1 health away from dead?

Loku really helps with that issue. I mean alot

Only if the player is prescient and placed that token for 2 strain before the attack...

Diala on the other hand for 1 strain will give you a reroll when you need it and not just on attacks but those annoying ability checks you need to do to win the game. As a support character, Loku is completely outclassed both in support and in damage by Diala, and Gideon.

I find people seem to underrate Loku more than just about any other hero. Union, you're right that in that one specific scenario (the opening of the very first mission, with no upgrades and a bunch of regular troopers) Fenn's blast is more valuable than Loku's +1 damage.

Fenn's blast is more valuable than Loku's ability in every single mission in the game. This isn't even close. You're trying to argue a pistol is more powerful than an atomic bomb. Fenn is so OP he breaks about half a dozen missions and about 1/3 of the missions are probably too easy with him in the party due to the fact that he can wipe out large chunks of the Imperial's starting force by himself. If he gets the mod that gives surge for blast then he'll wipe out entire deployments of eStormtroopers or rHeavy by himself unless you're playing Military Might and can give them the +2 health, in which case he'll let ONE live for Jyn to murder as soon as it activates.

It's fine you like Loku, play him all you want, but you simply can't make an argument that 2 strain for 1 damage beat's Mak's 1 strain for 2 pierce, Jyn's 2 strain for an entire attack, or Fenn, the most OP damage dealer in the game.

2 strain for 1 dmg is pretty abysmal, and even tho you can increase the value by using it on higher hp enemies or with spectrum scanner, it really doesn't stack up well with other 2 strain abilities which generally are an extra action.

The +2 accuracy is amazing on the hoth campaign and even on side missions you will be surprised at how often it comes in handy. The 5 endurance/5 speed is also something characters generally have to upgrade to.

Loku's deck is workable but not amazing.

I think he is solidly a B tier hero, but that doesn't mean he is bad. You can still win campaigns with B tier heroes and are rarely a hindrance, it simply means there are other heroes that can do the same thing but better.

Loku has worked really well the times we've played him. For a single xp the recon token allows heroes to ignore models for LOS, and when he can start placing recon tokens with surges it they really start to shine.

Loku won us the Hoth finale by dishing out 8 damage on a certain boss character (pulse canon + focus + recon token = )

Seriously, that ability to ignore LOS is incredible. Especially during those missions where the Rebels have to take out specific targets.

Any good Imperial player just makes sure to burry important figures behind cheap units and Loku just gets up and says NOPE.

are we comparing apples and oranges here?

For my money Loku is a great single-target damage dealer.

My experiences of Fenn is he's great at spreading damage out to many targets.

I do feel that Fenn can also become a strong single-target damage dealer though, so that might be where he has the edge on Loku.

Does this all depend on which weapons/upgrades are bought for the two characters?