I've only played a handful of Epic games, never done well. I got the Tantive and the Raider. Not sure which way to build it up. I'm normally a rebel player favoring YT's and Corran.... but I'm trying to figure out what to do for Epic...
Anyone have any brutal tips for Epic list building?
A swarm and Tantive with ghost support? (Very Rebel cartoon like) Tie swarm with Raider? X-Swarm with Tantive and Abhat?
Haven't played much myself; but from what I understand Ruthlessness and Assault Missile spam is pretty nasty (you shoot Epic ships and everyone in R1 takes damage).
In general, alpha strike and swarms are much more efficient than Aces. Arc-dodging doesn't work so great when the entire 6' by 3' is covered in ships.
That's a solid amount of firepower. If you go up against any swarms, they'll be in a world of pain.
A suggestion would be to drop the Hull Upgrade on Etahn for 3 x R2 astromech & Integrated on your X-wings instead.
Also drop the Adv Proton Torpedoes (range 1 only) for something like Ion Torpedoes. Hit a big ship, everyone in R1 of it gets ioned.
That's a solid amount of firepower. If you go up against any swarms, they'll be in a world of pain.
A suggestion would be to drop the Hull Upgrade on Etahn for 3 x R2 astromech & Integrated on your X-wings instead.
Also drop the Adv Proton Torpedoes (range 1 only) for something like Ion Torpedoes. Hit a big ship, everyone in R1 of it gets ioned.
I got to go buy a Carrier... oh well. Just money right? 
I only got 2 copies of R2 and 2 copies of IA...
CR90 Corvette (Aft) (40)Weapons Engineer (3)Quad Laser Cannons (6)Gunnery Team (4)Backup Shield Generator (3)Optimized Generators (5)CR90 Corvette (Fore) (50)Carlist Rieekan (3)Assault Missiles (5)Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)Engineering Team (4)Tibanna Gas Supplies (4)Ordnance Tubes (5)Etahn A'baht (32)Push the Limit (3)Sensor Jammer (4)R2-D2 (4)Hull Upgrade (3)Red Squadron Veteran (26)Predator (3)Red Squadron Veteran (26)Predator (3)Red Squadron Veteran (26)Predator (3)Red Squadron Veteran (26)Predator (3)Total: 300just a quick idea... I feel like its not gonna punch hard enough tho
play around with the builds then. I actually prefer more missiles on my ordinance tubes. Its' nice to not have to worry about energy, except for reinforcing and recovering, etc. I prefer concussion missiles or proton torps because of the innate modification and they work well with your gunnery team and ordinance team. If you do Homing missiles, Proton Torps and then your choice of concussion missiles(or if you want range 1 coverage then cluster missiles), you might save yourself a bit of energy and get 3-4 shots off on the approach, which eats ships to death or really puts a hurt on epic ships. (imagine being at range 3 on a Raider, you get your turret, and 2-3 ordinance shots with guaranteed hits against his reinforce token as his only defense) If you can do a little ion before, you can take out a Raider in a couple of turns. If you don't have enough copies of IA, switch in some B-wings. They still hit hard and have lots of hull to hit through and do allright at the slow approach with guaranteed crits from Etahn.
imperial missile raider?
Something that at least one squadbuilder gets wrong is the number of modifications allowed on the CR90 and Raider. They are not Royal Guard Interceptors, you know?
To be slightly more constructive: do you have either the Gozanti or the Transport?
And, do you want to win or to have fun?
To win, don't use either the CR90 or the Raider in a 300pt game (they do better in team epic, with 400pt lists); instead spam as many small ships as you can. Quantity counts! Alpha strikes, such as Tie Bombers (often carried into closer range by a Gozanti) can win a game within the first 3 turns. For the rebels, X-Wings and B-Wings are very effective. Y-Wing TLTs are not so good because they do damage over time and doing 3 or 4 hits per round is better.
To have fun, don't spam too many. I now have a self-imposed rule to only fly one of each pilot - ie to treat generic pilots as if they were unique. It's so much more fun to tell someone that they just killed Kir Kanos rather than (yet) another alpha squadron. I also always field a huge ship.
I will give my observations of your lists :
- Autothrusters: forget them (except on elites). You're used to equipping them because of 100 point games, but in epic, you will get, at most, 1 use of them before the battle degenerates into range 1-2 (most likely followed by a bump fest).
- Z-95 and Academy ties help a lot: after the long range exchange of fire, these ships stand good odds of rolling 3 attack dice at range 1. More importantly, they are expendable. If you use a Raider or corvette, these ships are critical; if you don't use them, you will lose (they will keep the enemy away from your huge and the more firepower is directed on them, the better).
- Academy ties or PS 1 A-Wing are important: if you block one enemy ship with a PS 1 and cause a bump fest for your opponent, then that ship was the hero of the game.
- Some ships have more synergy than others. Etahn with a Z-swarm is hard to ignore, as is Howlrunner. Roark is also a solid choice, allowing your PS 1 to fire before it dies.
- If you go Scum (because you have not posted any list linked to those), then look towards mindlink. Provided that people dont mind proxies, abuse mindlink as much as you can. You get a wave of PS5 monsters that don't mind (as much) being blocked and have good odds of having a target lock and focus every round.
Other than that, have fun!
Here are some more general tips. PS is very important to consider. The Raider and CR90 are PS 4, so if you choose PS4 generics, you can enable simultaneous fire if your ships get destroyed. But if you can save enough points to add more bodies by dropping to lower PS, that can be very useful for blocking enemy fighter groups. However, you can also go the other way, and take named PS5+ pilots to destroy PS4 pilots before they shoot.
All three strategies are viable!
It depends on what you will be facing, but Epic isn't played enough to have an established meta to plan against, so there's no right answer. Just pick what you are most comfortable with, and what sounds the most fun.
It was mentioned earlier that the CR90 and Raider are not that great in 300 point Epic, but a Raider scored 1st and (EDIT) CR90 scored 3rd at the Epic Dogfight Tournament at GenCon, so anything is possible.
And this is just squad building. We haven't even begun to discuss strategy/tactics yet.
thanks for the general tips. I got the Raider, CR90, and Rebel Transport.... I'm thinking of grabbing the Carrier... but at the same time I rarely fly the imperial navy and the upgrades that are worth it there appear to be primarily for Epic. I have found someone that will lend me the cards for this tournament coming up (no proxies) so that helps.
I was thinking of a transport with Z/A swarm as well. So many different options to play with. Even Raider and 3 deci's (borrowing 2) would be a lot of fun.
Yes, I would like to have fun. Thats the primary goal. Winning would be good too, but I'm usually pretty out matched skill wise in my local community. so I go into it with fun being the primary goal.
thanks for the general tips. I got the Raider, CR90, and Rebel Transport.... I'm thinking of grabbing the Carrier... but at the same time I rarely fly the imperial navy and the upgrades that are worth it there appear to be primarily for Epic. I have found someone that will lend me the cards for this tournament coming up (no proxies) so that helps.
I was thinking of a transport with Z/A swarm as well. So many different options to play with. Even Raider and 3 deci's (borrowing 2) would be a lot of fun.
Yes, I would like to have fun. Thats the primary goal. Winning would be good too, but I'm usually pretty out matched skill wise in my local community. so I go into it with fun being the primary goal.
[snip]
Activation phase would drive me insane on that... So I would probably ditch the flight of Z'95's and replace with some named pilots. just to have more fun.Or for imperials thats one reason I wanted to run Whisper. Whisper, Echo, Fel's Wrath, Howlrunner could be fun for named pliots with a supporing fleet
Good thoughts. I think if you're running that many Z's you might as well run the two named ones. Lt. Blount with VI and Assault Missiles is a relatively cheap counter to swarms, that won't mess with the rest of your squad, and Airen Cracken with VI can give ordnance carriers that have bumped an action so they can hit hard that round. They're still good to run with a bunch of Z's.
Oh, you meant named pilots of other ships? Replacing the Z's with a bunch of named pilots in ships with 3 attack dice may be a good idea. I don't fear 2-atk ships in Epic, but that's just my experience.
[snip]
I may be on the wrong path here... but this could be a lot of fun.So when the fire fight is about to start the idea is drop Rieekan to bump everyone to skill 12 for the turn to allow my ships to unleash as much damage as possible. hopefully taking out as much of the enemy fleet as possible or the capital ship depending on the situation.
Unfortunately, Rieekan only increases PS in the activation phase. By the time combat starts, everybody is back down to their own PS. He's really good for low PS ships that have repositional capabilities so you can arc-dodge high PS enemies.
It looks fun, but maybe it's a little too much high-PS ace? You never really know until you fly it.
CR90 Corvette (Aft) (40)Weapons Engineer (3)Quad Laser Cannons (6)Gunnery Team (4)Backup Shield Generator (3)Optimized Generators (5)CR90 Corvette (Fore) (50)Carlist Rieekan (3)Assault Missiles (5)Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)Engineering Team (4)Tibanna Gas Supplies (4)Ordnance Tubes (5)Etahn A'baht (32)Push the Limit (3)Sensor Jammer (4)R2-D2 (4)Hull Upgrade (3)Red Squadron Veteran (26)Predator (3)Red Squadron Veteran (26)Predator (3)Red Squadron Veteran (26)Predator (3)Red Squadron Veteran (26)Predator (3)Total: 300just a quick idea... I feel like its not gonna punch hard enough tho
play around with the builds then. I actually prefer more missiles on my ordinance tubes. Its' nice to not have to worry about energy, except for reinforcing and recovering, etc. I prefer concussion missiles or proton torps because of the innate modification and they work well with your gunnery team and ordinance team. If you do Homing missiles, Proton Torps and then your choice of concussion missiles(or if you want range 1 coverage then cluster missiles), you might save yourself a bit of energy and get 3-4 shots off on the approach, which eats ships to death or really puts a hurt on epic ships. (imagine being at range 3 on a Raider, you get your turret, and 2-3 ordinance shots with guaranteed hits against his reinforce token as his only defense) If you can do a little ion before, you can take out a Raider in a couple of turns. If you don't have enough copies of IA, switch in some B-wings. They still hit hard and have lots of hull to hit through and do allright at the slow approach with guaranteed crits from Etahn.
I like homing missile front and rear and a Quad Laser in the front for any range one guys. I also use Engine Booster to get me around the battlefield a little bit quicker. You can't have both Optimized Generator and Ordnance Tubes...only one modification for the entire ship.
Check out this thread for some ideas. https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/227096-epic-dogfight-at-gencon-indy-2016/
As for my list, I would consider raising B-Wings to a PS4 along with dropping the Y and a B for some Assault Missiles. I would look at maybe a K-Wing or a couple of Z-95's.
I will never go into battle without Roark. Giving a CR90 a PS12 bid (or another ship) and then getting 1-2 Homing Missiles, 1 long range up to 5 dice shot, and a quad laser..basically possibly 4 attacks before anyone else is LOADS of fun.
I won an epic tournament with this Rebel list:
60 GR-75 w/ Bright Hope, Rieekan, Toryn, Comms x2, Engine Booster, Auto Protocols.
58 Dash w/ PtL, HLC, Kyle, Engine, Title.
38 Lothal w/ Scopes, ABT, Hera, Chopper, TacJam.
34 Wedge w/ PtL, BB8, IA.
34 Wes w/ DtF, R2D2, IA.
31 Biggs w/ R2F2, Stealth.
44 Miranda w/ TLT, Jan, EM, AssaultM, Chips.
TOTAL = 299pts.
Basically the GR-75 Comms + Jan makes Biggs really tanky, whilst being tanky itself. First engagement you use Rieekan to wipe stuff out before it shoots, then you mop up with Dash & Miranda + whatever else is left. It's pretty fun.
Edited by CRCLI won an epic tournament with this Rebel list:
60 GR-75 w/ Bright Hope, Rieekan, Toryn, Comms x2, Engine Booster, Auto Protocols.
58 Dash w/ PtL, HLC, Kyle, Engine, Title.
38 Lothal w/ Scopes, ABT, Hera, Chopper, TacJam.
34 Wedge w/ PtL, BB8, IA.
34 Wes w/ DtF, R2D2, IA.
31 Biggs w/ R2F2, Stealth.
44 Miranda w/ TLT, Jan, EM, AssaultM, Chips.
TOTAL = 299pts.
Basically the GR-75 Comms + Jan makes Biggs really tanky, whilst being tanky itself. First engagement you use Rieekan to wipe stuff out before it shoots, then you mop up with Dash & Miranda + whatever else is left. It's pretty fun.
Er - Rieekan only bumps PS to 12 during movement phase. Still useful, but not going to help you wipe things out before they shoot.
That said - lot of high PS firepower on your list. Some very tough choices on what to target first. Not bad.
interesting... okay I'm learning a lot. thanks
Here are some more general tips. PS is very important to consider. The Raider and CR90 are PS 4, so if you choose PS4 generics, you can enable simultaneous fire if your ships get destroyed. But if you can save enough points to add more bodies by dropping to lower PS, that can be very useful for blocking enemy fighter groups. However, you can also go the other way, and take named PS5+ pilots to destroy PS4 pilots before they shoot.
All three strategies are viable!
It depends on what you will be facing, but Epic isn't played enough to have an established meta to plan against, so there's no right answer. Just pick what you are most comfortable with, and what sounds the most fun.
I'm quoting myself here, but for good reason. What I said about Epic not being played very much relative to other formats is true, but there is enough talk about Epic that I think there is an established meta: expect lots of low-mid PS generic ships. This is why so many people say to bring Assault Missiles and stuff. Much like lacking a Soontir counter in 100-point tournament play can be a death sentence, bringing an epic squad that doesn't have an answer for swarms can be brutal. But I don't think you need special tech. All you need is mid-PS named pilots in the 5-7 range. If you bring a bunch of them, you will take ships off before they fire, evening the battlefield. It's just a hunch, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Epic starts to turn (which, incidentally, opens the field to Imperial Glaive Sq. Pilots and Royal Guard Pilots, which are very points-efficient). This is all just my opinion, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Here are some more general tips. PS is very important to consider. The Raider and CR90 are PS 4, so if you choose PS4 generics, you can enable simultaneous fire if your ships get destroyed. But if you can save enough points to add more bodies by dropping to lower PS, that can be very useful for blocking enemy fighter groups. However, you can also go the other way, and take named PS5+ pilots to destroy PS4 pilots before they shoot.
All three strategies are viable!
It depends on what you will be facing, but Epic isn't played enough to have an established meta to plan against, so there's no right answer. Just pick what you are most comfortable with, and what sounds the most fun.
I'm quoting myself here, but for good reason. What I said about Epic not being played very much relative to other formats is true, but there is enough talk about Epic that I think there is an established meta: expect lots of low-mid PS generic ships. This is why so many people say to bring Assault Missiles and stuff. Much like lacking a Soontir counter in 100-point tournament play can be a death sentence, bringing an epic squad that doesn't have an answer for swarms can be brutal. But I don't think you need special tech. All you need is mid-PS named pilots in the 5-7 range. If you bring a bunch of them, you will take ships off before they fire, evening the battlefield. It's just a hunch, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Epic starts to turn (which, incidentally, opens the field to Imperial Glaive Sq. Pilots and Royal Guard Pilots, which are very points-efficient). This is all just my opinion, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
TIEs. I need more TIEs. Beautiful PS1 TIEs everywhere. So many they fill the air with their wonderful siren song...
I disagree slightly though... While I think many that have played epic a dozen times are settling into the PS4 to PS7 range for pilots... I'm still running into enough people flying only 5 or 6 expensive ships that confirms that the meta hasn't solidified in epic just yet. Expect anything, really. Somebody always surprises me with something. 300 points is a lot of room for personality.
Edited by LagJansonHow viable would a Gozer Raider interceptor build be?
I'm trying to figure out the synergy...
Gozanti-class Cruiser (40)Targeting Coordinator (4)Docking Clamps (0)Engine Booster (3)Vector (2)Raider-class Corvette (Fore) (50)Assault Missiles (5)Sensor Team (4)Raider-class Corvette (Aft) (50)Weapons Engineer (3)Ion Pulse Missiles (3)Quad Laser Cannons (6)Gunnery Team (4)Ordnance Tubes (5)Saber Squadron Pilot (21)Saber Squadron Pilot (21)Saber Squadron Pilot (21)Saber Squadron Pilot (21)"Whisper" (32)Veteran Instincts (1)Advanced Cloaking Device (4)Total: 300I feel like its a bad idea... good against low PS swarms and thats about it. but it sure loosk fun
Wow, that's gutsy. I would be nervous to run that, but the way things interact, there is a chance it could work. You'd have to maneuver to tempt your opponent to split fire between the two huge ships, because one round of firing from 300 points worth of ships is enough to cripple the fore-section of the Raider, or completely remove the Gozanti. Your TIE interceptors are fragile, but I've found that it isn't too hard to choose a place to launch them where they won't take any fire that round. As such, they could do some serious work. It's a little too straightforward for my tastes. I need a little pizzazz in my Epic squad to get me really excited. I'm still trying to tinker with the Imperial huge ships to find a squad I like that uses both.