I think the elite version lets you reroll 2 dice. Each die gets rerolled once but you could reroll both of them. I'm not convinced they are better than the regulars though for 12vs9 pts.

I think the elite version lets you reroll 2 dice. Each die gets rerolled once but you could reroll both of them.

That seems right, upto 2 dice. (If focused, upto two out of three, unless there are other sources for rerolls.)

If they keep pushing out cards that target low figure cost, then perhaps those 'unreinforceable' units will be worth something. The eRanger seems pretty good if they get focused and with 2x reroll.

Ah, I assumed that he meant figure when he said unit. Apologies.

Haha yeah, unit is a little ambiguous in that context

Still can't get over how awful 2 blue is. Taking the hunting rifle or whatever it is with 2 blue in campaign makes you feel like you stepped in a spike pit.

The Tatooine Hunting Rifle is bad because it only has a single +1DMG Surge. It would be a BRUTAL weapon if it had both a +2DMG Surge and a Pierce 1 Surge.

There's more to IA damage math than straight up dice color combinations

The Tatooine Hunting Rifle is bad because it only has a single +1DMG Surge. It would be a BRUTAL weapon if it had both a +2DMG Surge and a Pierce 1 Surge.

There's more to IA damage math than straight up dice color combinations

Only a 5/9 of getting a surge anyway, and when you see that sweet, sweet lightning bolt, you either need to spend it to get strain back, or the enemy gets an evade, or both.

Rangers don't get strain back?!?

The Tatooine Hunting Rifle is bad because it only has a single +1DMG Surge. It would be a BRUTAL weapon if it had both a +2DMG Surge and a Pierce 1 Surge.

There's more to IA damage math than straight up dice color combinations

Only a 5/9 of getting a surge anyway, and when you see that sweet, sweet lightning bolt, you either need to spend it to get strain back, or the enemy gets an evade, or both.

I'm sorry you never get to activate surge abilities during your campaign play. I usually get them quite often.

The Tatooine Hunting Rifle is bad because it only has a single +1DMG Surge. It would be a BRUTAL weapon if it had both a +2DMG Surge and a Pierce 1 Surge.

There's more to IA damage math than straight up dice color combinations

Only a 5/9 of getting a surge anyway, and when you see that sweet, sweet lightning bolt, you either need to spend it to get strain back, or the enemy gets an evade, or both.

I'm sorry you never get to activate surge abilities during your campaign play. I usually get them quite often.

Then you're cheating if you're getting them quite often off 2 blue.

My definition of quite often would be more than average, what means more than 50%.

Rolling at least one Surge on two blue dice with no reroll is 20/36.

20/36 = 55.555%

55.555% > 50%

This is already quite often in my book.

And then a regular Ranger has a reroll. When he uses the reroll just to get a surge, when he didn't roll one initially, then he rolls at least one surge in 152 out of 216 rolls.

152/216 = 70.370%

70.370% > 50%

If you count two surges in one roll as two surges, and the Ranger also uses his reroll to get a second surge, when he already has a surge on the other dice, then he rolls 208 surges in 216 rolls.

And then a Ranger can use Guerrilla to become hidden. A hidden Ranger has 424 surges in 216 rolls.

(Not including that Gideon might want to focus that figure.)

Maybe you want to reconsider your statement?

Baer, I appreciate all the math, but we're not discussing Rangers right now, we are discussing a hypothetical campaign weapon that's 2 blue dice with decent damage and pierce surge abilities, which I used as a thought experiment/example for an argument that 2 blue dice isn't necessarily awful damage output - whether or not it is awful damage depends not only on die colors, but also on surge abilities.

Then Union made an obviously untrue and blown out of proportion statement, I made a similarly untrue and blown out of proportion statement back. He then made another that's also mildly insulting, but I consider the matter closed anyway so I'm not planning on anwering that back.

Simple facts, here is just the DAMAGE of BG compared to BB. The number 1 red line is BG and the number 2 green line is BB.

So, any comments about the straight damage of BB being so bad, would have to include BG being bad as well. It's a 9% and 6% difference in damage at 3 and 4 respectively.

True, just looking at damage they are pretty close, but you have to consider surge options too.

The Rangers have the better surge Options than elite Stormtroopers. Rolling a second surge is nothing for the Stormtrooper, but a Pierce 1 for the Rangers. (The first Surge is + 2 Damage for both.)

But yes, overall the Stormtroopers have a minimum damage of 3, the Rangers have a minimum damage of 2. Both have a maximum damage of 5. Including rerolls and the Surge for Pierce 1, the Stormtroopers still roll slightly more damage than the Rangers. The Rangers have certainly more range and might hide, and therefore should live longer, when played well. When they manage to get one shot more per unit per game, they already are worth it. Even more, when they mange to get an additional Reinforcements by just one guy living a little longer.

And they are beautiful minis! I'd love to play them, but I won't, if they don't rock. So please let them rock.

Actually, the rangers can do more damage than the storm troopers. As long as you can keep them hidden, they can deal 6 damage. Troopers can do better but only after one of them is dead which means you are losing fire power anyway.

True, just looking at damage they are pretty close, but you have to consider surge options too.

With the surges it isn't that much different either.