Not so much, the yt-2400 entirely, but Vrill & ORS. Maybe the snuggle pit will help. Who knows.

Rebel HWKs, again, overcosted.

Vrill should have had an EPT. I read an interview somewhere with designers saying Vrill did not work out to be the anti- push the limits counter as planned. The lack of an EPT slot hurt him.

I still say that a lot of the ships that are suffering do suffer because of PTL Aces. If Wave 9 (full of anti PTL Ace stuff) can actually knock a dent into stopping all the PTL Aces, then we might actually see some of these ships back on the table.

The Firespray is getting Tail Gunner. That should help boost it right there.

I also wonder....how many of these ships would be alright if we didn't have PTL Aces in the game?

no it isn't the ARC is, buyinng a 24$ ugly Rebel ship to fix a Scum and Imp ship is not a fix, for 1 lousy card

Please....let's not get into the "I don't want to buy a ship I won't use because it fixes the ship I like" discussion. We can go on about Imperial Raiders and the X1 title. We can talk about Starvipers and Auto Includes. There are a ton of good cards in other packages and we just have to get them. Buy on ebay or suck it up and pay full price. That's the way it is in X-wing. Just be happy it's not a $90 (or cheaper online) epic ship you have to get.

so is it fixed yet ?

I agree with the overall theme of this thread. Slow down, tweek what is in the game already. Get the jousters jousting again. Give some of the less used ships a hand up.

Anyone who wants to see these ships fixed should buy as many Black Sun Slicer Tools as possible and do nothing but smack around Imp Ace builds until they start playing something else. Then, we can start to see some real change.

X-wings were too expensive and couldn't reposition. IA came out to fix the pricing, but they still suffer to all the PS 9 Aces out there. We are getting Vertical Thrusters and the chance to clean out the PTL Aces. I say it may soon be time to see many of these ships again.

As for some of the other ships, we need to probably wait for the Epic Scum ship. Remember that it took a lot to get the Raider cleared through Lucas Arts.

The only thing that absolutely needs to be fixed with this game is ...

The introduction of the Gunboat !

So, this is essentially the same complaint as the one that popped up when the Heroes of the Resistance announcement popped up.

That you want FFG to follow you wants, instead of what they feel is best for the game. Sorry, I don't have any sympathy for those types of arguments. Patience has often been rewarded. So, have some patience.

Ships that need updating /fixes

Rebels

Z95- needs some new pilots. Upgrades designed just for it would help.

Bwing- need something to help chase wing. But not make them too powerful, and/or help mitigate some dmg

Ewing- Generics need love for sure, but not coran New pilots would be cool.

T-65- needs loving for sure. Has a lot of pilots to choose from, so something that helps reposition, and/or something to help boost 2 green dice. Seeing a title for a rogue one squadron that boosts for each ship would be cool.

Awing- not much needed here, but something to boost its attack maybe nice, but at a cost.

Imperial

Bombers- IMO they still need attention. While they are good for certain roles, I am not a believer they are as good of ordnance carriers that they should be.

Firespray- needs new / updates pilot abilities. Fett imo was never great. Not for what he is. Especially when pilots like zuckass and 4lom seem to have a much better ability. IMO needs a lot of attention

Punisher- needs a lot of work. Reduce costs of ships, or upgrades. Doesn't fit the role it should for sure.

Tie phantom- would love to see something to help the generic, like the Ewing, but leave the unique pilots.

Lambda- the emperor helped this see a lot of play, but id love to see new pilots. Rather than just seeing generics hit the tables. Occasionally you see yorr, but new pilots would be cool

Scum

M3a interceptor- needs a lot of work. A title that give an extra hull and free action for 2-3 pts would be a good start. New pilots for sure.

Star viper- new pilots and upgrade options. Definitely needs attention

Z95- same as rebels

G1a starfighter- imo same as bwing

Ships that need updating /fixes.....

I would put these into these catagories:

Ships that are fine as long as PTL Aces aren't a big thing

• B-wing
• X-wing T-65
• Firespray (especially after Tail Gunner and Fearlessness)
• Kihraxz Fighter
• G1A Starfighter

Ships that actually could use some sort of fix, or better generics

• E-wings
• Starviper
• Tie Punisher
• Scyks

Ships that could use some more interesting pilots, but are otherwise fine:

• Z-95
• HWK-290
• Lambda

Ships that don't need anything done to them and are fine as they are:

• Tie Bombers

PS 9+ Acewing can suck a big one. There's way too many counters to these things already.

Flatchet torps, don't even need to hit, 2 points! If you have a mod slot open put chimps in there to maybe get some damage or reduce the token stack for the rest of the list.

Wes, Palob take away those precious tokens too.

Block!

Feedback, Vader crew, Connors, and other non-RNG thingies.

We have the ability to combat them already, we just don't see it.

Acewing doesn't just hurt T-65s and other 'medium' ships, it hurts all the other pilots on the ace's ship too. Named FO pilots other than OL? X1 other than Vader? Non-Fel squints? We don't need any more fixes, we need

IMAGINATION.

And GUNBOAT

Eh...

So ptl aces really aren't why these ships suck (though being more efficient than said ships doesn't help things)

Biggest problem is ships like the X and K-fighter...just sorta don't do anything. They move and roll dice.... yay?

Unless you get cool pilots like Biggs and Wes, there's Not much you can do there apart from making them more efficient than the tie fighter, which is currently more efficient AND gets to barrel roll as a base

For cooler ships, like the ARC, the real problem is torp scouts nuking low agility

Then there's the punisher, which is cool but just disgustingly overpriced

We might not need more toys to blast PS 9+ Acewing, but we sure are getting it with Wave 9.

Part of the thing with all the bits that can hurt PTL Aces that you mentioned is that you need to actually get a shot on them in the first place. Many of the new tricks don't even need that. Just look at Black Sun Slicer Tools and we see something that can easily hurt Soontir Fel. Ventress with her Mobile Arc can also put a hurt on PTL Aces. There are more heavy handed tools that are just coming out that will help to push PTL Aces from the meta.....or at least I think it's an obvious attempt.

Then, look at all the new stuff from Wave 9 and HotR. They all like things to be in firing arc. They are wanting people to joust more. I think it's an obvious manipulation of the game meta by FFG to say that they want to limit the power of the PTL Arc Dodger. I'm all for it.

Biggest problem is ships like the X and K-fighter...just sorta don't do anything. They move and roll dice.... yay?

I didn't know ships needed to do something crazy to make them unique. I think just flying at an enemy and blasting it with 3 attack dice was worth it enough.

You get Pilots with abilities and Astromechs to do crazy things. You can even throw on Proton Torpedoes for extra damage, ionization, and stress added in. Oh, and blowing up asteroids.

Ships that need updating /fixes.....

I would put these into these catagories:

Ships that are fine as long as PTL Aces aren't a big thing

• B-wing
• X-wing T-65
• Firespray (especially after Tail Gunner and Fearlessness)
• Kihraxz Fighter
• G1A Starfighter

Ships that actually could use some sort of fix, or better generics

• E-wings
• Starviper
• Tie Punisher
• Scyks

Ships that could use some more interesting pilots, but are otherwise fine:

• Z-95
• HWK-290
• Lambda

Ships that don't need anything done to them and are fine as they are:

• Tie Bombers

I would (tentatively) agree with this analysis, although triple U-Boats are probably just as painful for low agility generics as PtL Aces.

My three losses at Yavin all came at the hands of Palp Aces (although I beat another three Palp Aces lists, plenty of Sith Lords had their scalps taken by Scum that weekend).

There's a clear difference between "requiring a fix" and "benefitting from a few more pilots / options". The Phantom nerf, half points for large base ships, Chaardan Refit and the Defender titles were all fixes; pretty much everything else has been the addition of options

This thread should really be titled "petition to change the 100pt 6 rock snore fest format".

Exactly. The best way to fix ships--play Epic. Seven Scyk's made short work of my Gozanti a couple weeks ago.

Biggest problem is ships like the X and K-fighter...just sorta don't do anything. They move and roll dice.... yay?

I didn't know ships needed to do something crazy to make them unique. I think just flying at an enemy and blasting it with 3 attack dice was worth it enough.

You get Pilots with abilities and Astromechs to do crazy things. You can even throw on Proton Torpedoes for extra damage, ionization, and stress added in. Oh, and blowing up asteroids.

Back in my day we set our dials, moved, focused, and blew stuff up. We didn't need no fancy repositioning or action economy. That's he way it was and we liked it!

(A cookie for anyone who gets that reference)

Wait what's wrong with the tie bombers now? Gamma veterans and Tomax are amazing. Like, they are the sleeper hit of vets.

That would explain why they were tearing up the North American Championship at Gencon!!

Oh that's right, out of 256 lists I didn't see any TIE Bombers personally and they were nowhere near the Top Standings. Why would you take a TIE Bomber when you could take a Contracted Scout?

Wait what's wrong with the tie bombers now? Gamma veterans and Tomax are amazing. Like, they are the sleeper hit of vets.

That would explain why they were tearing up the North American Championship at Gencon!!

Oh that's right, out of 256 lists I didn't see any TIE Bombers personally and they were nowhere near the Top Standings. Why would you take a TIE Bomber when you could take a Contracted Scout?

Because you want a smaller target and a PS advantage?

Because you want to field more of them?

Because you like dropping bombs?

Because you like TIE Bombers?

Wait what's wrong with the tie bombers now? Gamma veterans and Tomax are amazing. Like, they are the sleeper hit of vets.

That would explain why they were tearing up the North American Championship at Gencon!!

Oh that's right, out of 256 lists I didn't see any TIE Bombers personally and they were nowhere near the Top Standings. Why would you take a TIE Bomber when you could take a Contracted Scout?

Because you can take 4 Tie Bombers that can destroy U-boats. People who are used to PTL Aces have a hard time with Tie Bombers. Why aren't players original enough to fly something new? I'm not sure. All it would take is one good player flying a Tie Bomber list and doing well and then everyone will fly it. Why hasn't it been done? Most good players think it isn't as good as U-boats and suffers to Imp Aces. I don't think that competitive X-wing gamers are the most creative or bold when it comes to list design.

Biggest problem is ships like the X and K-fighter...just sorta don't do anything. They move and roll dice.... yay?

I didn't know ships needed to do something crazy to make them unique. I think just flying at an enemy and blasting it with 3 attack dice was worth it enough.

You get Pilots with abilities and Astromechs to do crazy things. You can even throw on Proton Torpedoes for extra damage, ionization, and stress added in. Oh, and blowing up asteroids.

Throwing dice is something literally every ship EVEN THE HWK can do

And there are better platforms to get said dice, hence the whole mathwing thing

For example, the defender x7 is the most efficient jouster

It's also got a crazy unique dial and it's title emphasizes a crazy unique playstyle assuming you don't go tieD to make it an interesting control ship instead

So what do the X)k have? Ordnance?? That's just more dice unless you roll seismics. There are mathematically superior platforms for that which also get to do more things than just roll dice

Astromech? Most of them heave. All you have us bb8 and r3-a2 to get out of the dice throwing niche and now the aux arc ARC utilizes both far more effectively (due to the whole aux arc thing)

Apart from them we got Regen, which is simply better served on ships with superior damage mitigation (re Poe) which can ALSI reposition instead of just tossing dice

Etc etc etc

Nevermind competitive viability, the kfighter and X just give you less gameplay overall than just about every other ship

Unless you run a dice independent ability ala Biggs/Wes, you're just not escaping that pigeonhole the ships have been designed into

So yeah, they gotta do something beyond that (and I'm not talking about VTs making them even worse Tie fighters/Bwings )

It doesn't even need to be repositioning, just something that rewards you for predicting your opponent with something other than blank faces on barely modified dice

Which is why the Quad jump, that adorable little joke of a ship, is cooler than the games namesake. Forget the barrel roll and how inefficient it is, we're getting DICE INDEPENDENT tbeams!

A simple t65 is a title 0 points a t65 is same as t70 . Natural boost plus shield . It works ok for us

It's always fun watching fickle go on one of his overly long, misguided rants.

HEY FICKLE! What's better in your opinion on a two agility ship - one extra shield, or one extra naked green dice?

A simple t65 is a title 0 points a t65 is same as t70 . Natural boost plus shield . It works ok for us

That would be way too much. Also, not much reason to fly the T-70 at that point.

0pt title to make T65 equal to T70 with the exception of no TRoll would make all T70's vanish except regen poe.

They are a more advanced version of the T65, the T65 needs to be tweaked to be more of a budget ship and T70 be tweaked to be more heavy.

Medium ships have no place in this game because of the way they balance the numbers. Its a bloody medium ship, both of them, so the only ones we see are a few choice pilots with a unique ability we NEED (or found a gimick with)

problem is finding a way to make the T65 cheaper without making it too cheap, or the t70 deadlier without exceeding its price.

It's always fun watching fickle go on one of his overly long, misguided rants.

HEY FICKLE! What's better in your opinion on a two agility ship - one extra shield, or one extra naked green dice?

And really, the only thing misguided here is how badly you missed the point

It's not just about effiency (kfighter > Pfighter there), more about how they're not the most efficient jousters but they somehow don't do much of anything else