I hope they wait to see how the next 3 waves shape the game in the future before changing some of the current stuff like Demolisher.

I hope they wait to see how the next 3 waves shape the game in the future before changing some of the current stuff like Demolisher.

Wave 5 will impact Worlds next yer but not regionals this year most likely. I cant wait to see what happens with the mini bubble that wave 3/4 will bring to the meta. . .

Oh, and the fact that the CEO doesn't even want to compare Armada to X-Wing because X-Wing is so astronomical is a bit surprising. I mean, I know that X-Wing was doing better, but I didn't know they were doing that well that they don't even use it as a benchmark. FFG must be rolling in dat cash moneys.

My first year at GenCon was when X-Wing wave 3 was released. I sat in on the big FFG presentation and they showed some basic sales figures. My memory tells me that X-wing basically outsold everything else FFG had at that point combined. They talked about having to change some of their business models and how the new cash flow would open up opportunities. That was 4 years ago.

It's natural to want to compare the two games, but not necessary. Armada can be hugely successful for FFG without ever coming near the same level of sales or tournament attendance.

Thank you for taking the time and initiative to create your blog and to post your thoughts. I think you asked intelligent questions that get to the heart of player anxieties, namely what is the FFG experience with Armada as a product. How are sales, what's up with the production timeline, how do you feel about the game?

I think FFG is very professional as a game company, maybe too professional. What I mean is that they are too good at not talking about their business. They can do a better job of humanizing themselves and advertising their affection for the product. That might reduce the anxiety within the forum echo chamber a little bit. And that's not for nothing. These games only live and grow if the player base feels the company creating the game view it as a long term commitment like the players themselves. The cone of silence before wave 3/4 was probably the most damaging thing to the game this year. A few human interest pieces, like your blog post, would have went a long way towards allieviating player concern.

In all, great posts from GenCon. Almost enough to make me want to go next year.

I appreciate the kind words. I really tried to come up with questions that they could answer that would fill an information void in the community. The nice thing is that I have built a couple of relationships and hope to be able to directly ask similar questions again in the future if there are more periods of quiet like this.

And you should go to GenCon, it's a great experience.

Oh, and the fact that the CEO doesn't even want to compare Armada to X-Wing because X-Wing is so astronomical is a bit surprising. I mean, I know that X-Wing was doing better, but I didn't know they were doing that well that they don't even use it as a benchmark. FFG must be rolling in dat cash moneys.

My first year at GenCon was when X-Wing wave 3 was released. I sat in on the big FFG presentation and they showed some basic sales figures. My memory tells me that X-wing basically outsold everything else FFG had at that point combined. They talked about having to change some of their business models and how the new cash flow would open up opportunities. That was 4 years ago.

It's natural to want to compare the two games, but not necessary. Armada can be hugely successful for FFG without ever coming near the same level of sales or tournament attendance.

FFG basically hit WoW-status with X-Wing. Good for them.

Do you want to read a really long winded blog post on my opinions of the State of Armada?

Then please follow this LINK.

It's some interviews combined with my own inferences and opinions. Feel free to comment, argue, troll, or ignore as you see fit.

And in case you missed them I have posts from GenCon about:

Corellian Conflict

Wave 5 Photos

Some Wave 5 Context

and my experiences at the North American Championships - Day One and Two.

Excellent write-ups shmitty, and very good grammar!! Does your blog have a RSS feed? I couldn't find one.

I thought I had one setup. I'll check and make sure it is still there.

Thanks for all the feedback. I had far more fun playing at reporter than I would have expected. I figured everyone would only be interested in spoilers, etc. It's good to know that there is a place for the big picture information too!

Thanks for all the feedback. I had far more fun playing at reporter than I would have expected. I figured everyone would only be interested in spoilers, etc. It's good to know that there is a place for the big picture information too!

If I was still on the East Coast, the trek would have been a bit better for me. Having to go from Cali to GenCon is now a bit of a stretch!

Interesting how some of you feel that Armada is more serious. Around my area and some other communities I've spoke to, X-Wing is considered more "serious" when it comes to competitive players. Not sure if just more players so the certain "that guy" stands out more, but they all say that Armada is more casual.

X-Wing is all about the numbers. That is what people care about. We think about it as well in Armada but it is not as huge. We delve more into the combinations and tactics while being strategically flexible. This is also a time where the game is still young so it could be that we have not yet hit that saturation level. That and we don't have things that are "better version" of things.

I really hope they keep that in mind. Making better things to obsolete existing things is usually not a good way to make a game. Though, I guess we can stomach it for really bad upgrades.

--

I hope they read these and know that radio silence is NOT the PR answer. Blizzard learned that only about a year or two ago, but it has helped their PR efforts/customer satisfaction immensely.

...So far, we know for a fact that Rhymer and Demolisher has been running rampant for a very long time. The answer from them is similar to their direction with X-Wing, or Netrunner, and that specific cards are not errata'd or faq'd directly, but more and more answers for them are released by waves. Their design approach is that by increasing player options and providing soft-counters to meta-dominant strategies, they'll add more to the game in the long run. ...

I think that's right. A game can never achieve some perfect balance, and I think it's actually advantageous for these games to be slightly unbalanced, with the opportunity to fix them with subsequent releases. It helps drive future sales. (I'm not saying that the imbalances are engineered to be there, but that they're inevitable and not that bad for FFG.)

I feel good that it is now a little past mid-year, and by the end of the year, we will have a much more diverse game than we have now. That's got me really excited about the game, reinvigorated my desire to write again, and all I need now is to get more events going in the area. I think once Wave 4 hits the stores, it'll be the start of something new again (much like when Wave 2 hit).

What do you think you'll to to hit your community with some octane? Wave 3&4 will certainly help, but it also requires people on the ground to organize events. In our area, people like shmitty, Lyraeus, and (to a lesser extent) myself, and some others, work to organize events, such as tournaments.

Oh, and the fact that the CEO doesn't even want to compare Armada to X-Wing because X-Wing is so astronomical is a bit surprising. I mean, I know that X-Wing was doing better, but I didn't know they were doing that well that they don't even use it as a benchmark. FFG must be rolling in dat cash moneys.

Absolutely, X-Wing is astronomically successful. That's why we've been saying that there's no big point in trying to compare them when talking about our gaming communities and the amount of players they can draw. X-Wing is just quicker, easier, more seductive... ...and it's older with a more established customer base.

What I would be interested to learn is what was the graph of X-Wing's success looks like. Was it an instant success, or was there some later point when it just took off; ie. was there a point of critical mass when the network effects of player communities propelled it towards growth? Also: was it a critical mass of players, or was it because Disney kicked Star Wars into high gear, which help draw demand?

Interesting how some of you feel that Armada is more serious. Around my area and some other communities I've spoke to, X-Wing is considered more "serious" when it comes to competitive players. Not sure if just more players so the certain "that guy" stands out more, but they all say that Armada is more casual.

Interesting. I play both in my area, and I wouldn't say that either game has more or less serious players, other than the occasional outlier individual. If there are differences, it probably has more to do with the local social conditions than anything else.

Armada balance and design

I was lucky enough to have multiple conversations with Alex Davies on Armada balance and the complexity of creating this kind of game from a design perspective, so I want to stress the following things for the community:

1. [*]FFG is fully aware of what is going on in the Armada meta. I won't spill specific details, but I will say that Demolisher, Rhymer, and several other things were mentioned (and that Shmitty's regionals data was referenced). The designers are watching, and more so, watching with an open mind and the long-term health of the game in mind rather than short-term band-aids.

[*]Some of the design choices for the wave 3/4/5 space and the Corellian campaign are very deliberately aimed at improving things that are underwhelming currently. I believe the phrase was "ideally, almost everything is playable" with the understanding that occasionally an upgrade card is just a dud, but that shouldn't be the case for models. It's not coincidence Jerjerrod is amazing for the Vic, it's not coincidence that the Corellian stuff will give new ways to use older squadrons, it's not coincidence the Arquitens is going to be great with Vader, etc. These are deliberate design choices (either initially, or discovered during the process), so if you are seeing that, it's not an illusion.

[*]There is also a strong desire to just allow new tactics and new methods of play. The game is still in the early stages, and things like Sato open up new avenues of play.

Its so clear that they care very deeply about getting the balance right, and are good at it too judging by vassel testing.

This is why I was so bemused, when it became apparent, that they cant fly very well as shown in the fleet commander contest.

What do you think you'll to to hit your community with some octane? Wave 3&4 will certainly help, but it also requires people on the ground to organize events. In our area, people like shmitty, Lyraeus, and (to a lesser extent) myself, and some others, work to organize events, such as tournaments.

The current plan will be having as many Wave 3/4 tournaments as possible

Armada balance and design

I was lucky enough to have multiple conversations with Alex Davies on Armada balance and the complexity of creating this kind of game from a design perspective, so I want to stress the following things for the community:

1. [*]FFG is fully aware of what is going on in the Armada meta. I won't spill specific details, but I will say that Demolisher, Rhymer, and several other things were mentioned (and that Shmitty's regionals data was referenced). The designers are watching, and more so, watching with an open mind and the long-term health of the game in mind rather than short-term band-aids.

[*]Some of the design choices for the wave 3/4/5 space and the Corellian campaign are very deliberately aimed at improving things that are underwhelming currently. I believe the phrase was "ideally, almost everything is playable" with the understanding that occasionally an upgrade card is just a dud, but that shouldn't be the case for models. It's not coincidence Jerjerrod is amazing for the Vic, it's not coincidence that the Corellian stuff will give new ways to use older squadrons, it's not coincidence the Arquitens is going to be great with Vader, etc. These are deliberate design choices (either initially, or discovered during the process), so if you are seeing that, it's not an illusion.

[*]There is also a strong desire to just allow new tactics and new methods of play. The game is still in the early stages, and things like Sato open up new avenues of play.

Its so clear that they care very deeply about getting the balance right, and are good at it too judging by vassel testing.

This is why I was so bemused, when it became apparent, that they cant fly very well as shown in the fleet commander contest.

Keep in mind that most designers are not actually very good at the games they design. They primarily look outwards towards the community for top-player feedback.

This is why I was so bemused, when it became apparent, that they cant fly very well as shown in the fleet commander contest.

Edit: ninja'd !

What do you think you'll to to hit your community with some octane? Wave 3&4 will certainly help, but it also requires people on the ground to organize events. In our area, people like shmitty, Lyraeus, and (to a lesser extent) myself, and some others, work to organize events, such as tournaments.

The current plan will be having as many Wave 3/4 tournaments as possible

As an ex-games designer, I can tell you its because you never just sit down and play...

... Even when you go to sit down and play, you're constantly critiquing everything in front of you... Your decisions on mechanics, the choice of wording, interactions between rules... They're always plain and directly in front of you when you're trying to play... Its immensely distracting.

I'm setting one up for us next week. We're expected to get our stuff in this week, so once that happens, it's game on!

I think that's right. A game can never achieve some perfect balance, and I think it's actually advantageous for these games to be slightly unbalanced, with the opportunity to fix them with subsequent releases. It helps drive future sales. (I'm not saying that the imbalances are engineered to be there, but that they're inevitable and not that bad for FFG.)

I actually discussed this exact point with Alex - he's quite aware that in the age of the internet, you never really know how something will truly work out until the player community gets their hands on it. The goal is perfect balance, but it's a goal to aspire to, as it cannot actually be achieved.

FFG feels like they have very strong playtesters, and I know the designers do think about combinations, point values, and potential for breaking things / damaging the meta quite a bit, but they are self-aware that you can never get it perfect. The goal is to not let major bugs slip through the system, and that small things can be worked around by the community or have changes slipped into later waves to counter / modify the performance.

So inevitable is the right word, and while FFG tries to minimize it, they also have a design philosophy for how to deal with it, which is good to see. It's not just "oh well" and let it ride.

Armada balance and design

I was lucky enough to have multiple conversations with Alex Davies on Armada balance and the complexity of creating this kind of game from a design perspective, so I want to stress the following things for the community:

1. [*]FFG is fully aware of what is going on in the Armada meta. I won't spill specific details, but I will say that Demolisher, Rhymer, and several other things were mentioned (and that Shmitty's regionals data was referenced). The designers are watching, and more so, watching with an open mind and the long-term health of the game in mind rather than short-term band-aids.

[*]Some of the design choices for the wave 3/4/5 space and the Corellian campaign are very deliberately aimed at improving things that are underwhelming currently. I believe the phrase was "ideally, almost everything is playable" with the understanding that occasionally an upgrade card is just a dud, but that shouldn't be the case for models. It's not coincidence Jerjerrod is amazing for the Vic, it's not coincidence that the Corellian stuff will give new ways to use older squadrons, it's not coincidence the Arquitens is going to be great with Vader, etc. These are deliberate design choices (either initially, or discovered during the process), so if you are seeing that, it's not an illusion.

[*]There is also a strong desire to just allow new tactics and new methods of play. The game is still in the early stages, and things like Sato open up new avenues of play.

Its so clear that they care very deeply about getting the balance right, and are good at it too judging by vassel testing.

This is why I was so bemused, when it became apparent, that they cant fly very well as shown in the fleet commander contest.

Keep in mind that most designers are not actually very good at the games they design. They primarily look outwards towards the community for top-player feedback.

And not just top player feedback. One of my good friends was a tester for Blizzard and while he was one of the "Pro" testers, they also employed lots testers (more than pros) that were the equivalent of your girlfriends little sister too. People who were so amateurish at the game and games in general that they could test for those times when they simply break the game on *accident* by doing something that no one in their right mind would actually try to do simply because they don't have a basic understanding of, you know, anything. Pro testers were dime a dozen, but it was the amateur testers that had the largest impact on the overall game design and functions. I'm sure FFG isn't an outlyer, and they have testers from a broad range of tastes and backgrounds to make sure the product turns out as well rounded as possible.

Armada balance and design

I was lucky enough to have multiple conversations with Alex Davies on Armada balance and the complexity of creating this kind of game from a design perspective, so I want to stress the following things for the community:

1. [*]FFG is fully aware of what is going on in the Armada meta. I won't spill specific details, but I will say that Demolisher, Rhymer, and several other things were mentioned (and that Shmitty's regionals data was referenced). The designers are watching, and more so, watching with an open mind and the long-term health of the game in mind rather than short-term band-aids.

[*]Some of the design choices for the wave 3/4/5 space and the Corellian campaign are very deliberately aimed at improving things that are underwhelming currently. I believe the phrase was "ideally, almost everything is playable" with the understanding that occasionally an upgrade card is just a dud, but that shouldn't be the case for models. It's not coincidence Jerjerrod is amazing for the Vic, it's not coincidence that the Corellian stuff will give new ways to use older squadrons, it's not coincidence the Arquitens is going to be great with Vader, etc. These are deliberate design choices (either initially, or discovered during the process), so if you are seeing that, it's not an illusion.

[*]There is also a strong desire to just allow new tactics and new methods of play. The game is still in the early stages, and things like Sato open up new avenues of play.

Its so clear that they care very deeply about getting the balance right, and are good at it too judging by vassel testing.

This is why I was so bemused, when it became apparent, that they cant fly very well as shown in the fleet commander contest.

Keep in mind that most designers are not actually very good at the games they design. They primarily look outwards towards the community for top-player feedback.

And not just top player feedback. One of my good friends was a tester for Blizzard and while he was one of the "Pro" testers, they also employed lots testers (more than pros) that were the equivalent of your girlfriends little sister too. People who were so amateurish at the game and games in general that they could test for those times when they simply break the game on *accident* by doing something that no one in their right mind would actually try to do simply because they don't have a basic understanding of, you know, anything. Pro testers were dime a dozen, but it was the amateur testers that had the largest impact on the overall game design and functions. I'm sure FFG isn't an outlyer, and they have testers from a broad range of tastes and backgrounds to make sure the product turns out as well rounded as possible.

Oh? What was his name?

I can tell you more about the process they used, but it's not as simple as differentiating "pro" vs. non-pro. In short, all feedback is valuable, but the top-down outlook is how they target specific fixes to the competitive/hardcore playerbase while it goes largely unnoticed by the general public.

What do you think you'll to to hit your community with some octane? Wave 3&4 will certainly help, but it also requires people on the ground to organize events. In our area, people like shmitty, Lyraeus, and (to a lesser extent) myself, and some others, work to organize events, such as tournaments.

The current plan will be having as many Wave 3/4 tournaments as possible

Tossing a multitude of tournaments might not be the best idea. Game days and leagues work as well as partial campaigns.

What do you think you'll to to hit your community with some octane? Wave 3&4 will certainly help, but it also requires people on the ground to organize events. In our area, people like shmitty, Lyraeus, and (to a lesser extent) myself, and some others, work to organize events, such as tournaments.

The current plan will be having as many Wave 3/4 tournaments as possible

Tossing a multitude of tournaments might not be the best idea. Game days and leagues work as well as partial campaigns.

Nah man. Not in my area. The key is to get older players back first, then leverage their experience and help to kick off the corelian campaign in force. Game nights have already started but hopefully will grow in number as people come to try out new ships.

What do you think you'll to to hit your community with some octane? Wave 3&4 will certainly help, but it also requires people on the ground to organize events. In our area, people like shmitty, Lyraeus, and (to a lesser extent) myself, and some others, work to organize events, such as tournaments.

The current plan will be having as many Wave 3/4 tournaments as possible

Tossing a multitude of tournaments might not be the best idea. Game days and leagues work as well as partial campaigns.

Nah man. Not in my area. The key is to get older players back first, then leverage their experience and help to kick off the corelian campaign in force. Game nights have already started but hopefully will grow in number as people come to try out new ships.

I want more opponents and I am slowly getting them but it is slow. I need more challenges!

On a side note, ello Darth Lupine! You have been missed!

Hey Lyraeus, how's it going?

Btw, good read. I've been out of touch with everything, trying to catch back up.

Hey Lyraeus, how's it going?

Btw, good read. I've been out of touch with everything, trying to catch back up.

You haven't missed much. Its been mostly a battle against those who decry Armada because it did not get enough releases and now it is a decry of Armada because it has too many releases. . . /sigh. . . people just are not happy with improvements.

Hey Lyraeus, how's it going?

Btw, good read. I've been out of touch with everything, trying to catch back up.

You haven't missed much. Its been mostly a battle against those who decry Armada because it did not get enough releases and now it is a decry of Armada because it has too many releases. . . /sigh. . . people just are not happy with improvements.

To quote Obi Wan Kenobi... "I've never been happy."

Or was that just Family Guy...