Do I am starting to work on my campaign again but was trying to find my perfect ***** in the part of the galaxy my group is in and was going to bring the coalition from rifts but just bought alot of deathwatch books and thought it would be pretty cool to bring the space Marinesin instead and know there are others out there that are converting the 40k stuff over to the edge system so I was wondering if there are PDF files of the 40k I could get. I

Can open, worms everywhere!

Um, seriously, that may not be a great idea. I built my campaign almost from scratch, but Space Marines are so iconic to a completely different genre of sci-fi, and run against the grain of Star Wars so much, that you may be asking for trouble. Also, Space Marines are a hugely contentious element even within 40K fandom, let alone different fandoms.

But hey, it's your world and your game. If you persist, tell us how it goes.

(I do use some themes from 40K - our stormtroopers are not very badass like Marines, but they are brainwashed in the same style, and are always fearless and loyal - to the extent that our Alliance players aren't allowed to take them prisoner. I don't use Warp demons but our take on the Force is much darker and more enigmatic than canon, and there are ghosts and spirits and other things barely understood even by the Jedi. So it's sometimes better to use themes and motifs than use things from other genres wholesale).

I know very little of the 40K universe, but it seems to me that Space Marines would do really well in a Star Wars setting... as an adversary. These guys could be terrifying servants of the Emperor.

Yeah, the Imperium of Man and the Empire would be Facebook friends at the very least.

As Kaosoe says, you could probably start with Marines as Rival level Stormtroopers and go from there.

I still feel they'd unbalance things too quickly. Most 40K fans I've spoken with either drool over them like fanboys or utterly despise them as 40K's resident Mary Sues.

I have to agree with Maelora; but if you decide to move forward, the first thing you need to do is decide what level of formidability you want to go with. 40K fluff frequently describes them as neigh-unstoppable juggernauts who can single-handedly wipe out an entire company of 'lesser beings'. Meanwhile, in the wargame from which they originate, they're tougher than the average guardsman but can still be pistol-whipped to death by a Grot. So, where on that spectrum do you want them to fall?

as my player group is above knight level and since I have only three players in my group, i do give them options to make other characters to do other things and since they do have a base of operations now, I do not think it would be unbalanced. I had the group make other characters just in case they need to travel away from the planet, they could leave one character back as base fixing things up. Stormtroopers are just to easy for them to beat even in squad mode

Maybe start small port some stuff over but leave stormtroopers as the main bad guys since they will now start to explore the region they are in. Made I should make my squads bigger instead of just 3 person squads. I have got alot of the thinking to do as I do want to get back to running my star Wars game soon.

If you take a look at the Dark Trooper (AoR Core, p.421), I think that's a decent place to start. It's similarly-sized and -equipped to a Space Marine, though probably more lightly armored. Dark Trooper fluff, when taken as a whole, shows some broad similarities to Space Marines as well. Be advised, though, that Dark Troopers are pretty beefy Rivals. If you intend to utilize them as Minions, you may experience some balance issues.

As an aside, if your players are having so little trouble dealing with "regular" stormtroopers, I'd suggest that the Imperials need to improve their tactics. Stormtroopers represent top-of-the-line troops of the largest, best-funded military the galaxy has ever seen. They should absolutely be using tactics and technology to prepare the battlefield and outmaneuver the party.

Boost up to 4-man teams, each with a sergeant, and throw them at the party in waves. 2 teams to start; as soon as they get below 50% strength they should radio for assistance and another 8-man squad (in two teams) shows up a couple of rounds later. If THEY drop below half-strength, then they radio for serious support. At this point, the party's taken down half a platoon and should have three additional whole platoons - the rest of the company - of 32 stormtroopers each converging on their location with AT-STs and/or air support.

An individual stormtrooper, though much better than a baseline human, isn't that much of a challenge. It's the "Imperial entanglements" that each 'trooper represents that should give your PCs pause.

I introduce a few of the 40k concepts into the history of my Star Wars milieu. Specifically, during the Pius Dea crusades, 10-11k years BBY. I have read up a bit about that time period via the wookieepedia, and have decided to give the Republic, the Chancellor, and the crusades a 40k flare.

It's all simply background material, of course, except I have a scenario in mind in which the PCs discover something from that time period, and an adventure ensues.

If you want a "40k" Star Wars, read up on the Pius Dea crusades and maybe consider setting your game during that period. But keep it Star Wars.

At this point, the party's taken down half a platoon and should have three additional whole platoons - the rest of the company - of 32 stormtroopers each converging on their location with AT-STs and/or air support.

Yeah. Start throwing vehicle and ship-based weapons at them while they’re standing there on the ground.

Or beef up some Inquisitors or Emperor’s Hands with over 1000xp and thousands of troops.

Could they survive the Battle of Geonosis single-handed and without any backup coming in the form of Yoda with Clone Troopers?

Yeah. Start throwing vehicle and ship-based weapons at them while they’re standing there on the ground.

Or beef up some Inquisitors or Emperor’s Hands with over 1000xp and thousands of troops.

Could they survive the Battle of Geonosis single-handed and without any backup coming in the form of Yoda with Clone Troopers?

You know very well that isn't what I meant!

Gilbur, if my example wasn't clear enough, send me a PM and I'll elucidate further.

Don't we already have an armoured-based culture in the Mandalorians?

Big 40K nerd over here, so hopefully you don't take this the wrong way, but...

Nope.

Honestly, a Space Marine is a near-godlike figure compared to most infantry in this game. Each one would start at Nemesis-level, have armor with a soak of 10 (so a conservative 18 soak when all is said and done), and the reflexes of a Jedi Shadow. Some of them (Librarians) might actually BE Jedi in the dimensions of their powers. They are functionally immortal, unless killed. And they don't fight alone -- but in squads, companies and chapters. They shoot weapons (bolters) with explosive bullets that would peel the armor off an AT-AT. The only way to survive a hit from a bolter or a power weapon would be to dodge it -- but even that would be impossible, because they are superhumanly fast.

I do think you might be able to use the "flavour" of the Space Marine to make some Rival-level Stormtroopers (as others suggest), but again, they wouldn't be Space Marines if you could bring one down with a blaster. In both the lore and the tabletop, you'd need on average 10 Imperial Guard to bring down a Space Marine in a volley of fire per firing round with lasguns (the comparable equivalent to a Star Wars blaster rifle).

If you think that's exaggerating -- what's even the point of having Space Marines? The whole idea with them is that they are the Deus Ex Machina of the Imperium. A squad of 10 could conquer a planet if the conditions were right.

They're oranges to the apples of Star Wars -- cartoonishly oversized and not meant to "mix" with other beings. I like Star Wars enemies because there's always something up your sleeve you can use to bring them down. Even Darth Vader was bested by an angry young man without armor. That...just wouldn't happen with a Space Marine.

That...just wouldn't happen with a Space Marine.

In the ludicrous Mary Sue fluff, no.

In the game, as Desslok said, you can take them down with a grot armed with a spanner. They have 4 to the average human's 3. Better than human, but not by much. As long as you have something to open the power armour, they're not too hard to kill. Used them quite a lot in our Necromunda games, in fact.

Anyway, now we're into fandom wars, which isn't a good thing

But yeah, Star Wars already has armoured, faceless evil goons who are overhyped by the fandom. We don't need more really.

Thanks everyone for your feedback, I did have alot of pros and alot of cons of my situation. I am taking alot of this into consideration and have decided to go other ways for my game that is why I always come to the forums to see what others would do with the same situations.

That...just wouldn't happen with a Space Marine.

In the ludicrous Mary Sue fluff, no.

In the game, as Desslok said, you can take them down with a grot armed with a spanner. They have 4 to the average human's 3. Better than human, but not by much. As long as you have something to open the power armour, they're not too hard to kill. Used them quite a lot in our Necromunda games, in fact.

Anyway, now we're into fandom wars, which isn't a good thing

But yeah, Star Wars already has armoured, faceless evil goons who are overhyped by the fandom. We don't need more really.

Some of that Mary Sue fluff is product put out by the company hosting this board.....

And as for what Desslok said, yes a grot could take down a marine, but in practice a squad of assault marines assaulting a mob of grots ended up with 30-40 dead grots and 1 dead marine. That is using the Necromunda era rules too.

I dont disagree with your conclusion tho. Either the Fandom wars ('My technobabble is better than your technobabble!'), or the evil goons

Some of that Mary Sue fluff is product put out by the company hosting this board.....

So? I think FFG make great products but I am free to criticise them. Not that I've read any of the 40K stuff though.

but in practice a squad of assault marines assaulting a mob of grots ended up with 30-40 dead grots and 1 dead marine. That is using the Necromunda era rules too.

If they are in a huge blob together, yes. If they are spread out, and two or three WS2 grots mob a lone WS4 Marine, that Marine is toast under Necromunda rules.

Marines are a bit better than their human equivalents in the crunch. The fluff makes them out to have the stat line of Greater Demons.

Some of that Mary Sue fluff is product put out by the company hosting this board.....

So? I think FFG make great products but I am free to criticise them. Not that I've read any of the 40K stuff though.

but in practice a squad of assault marines assaulting a mob of grots ended up with 30-40 dead grots and 1 dead marine. That is using the Necromunda era rules too.

If they are in a huge blob together, yes. If they are spread out, and two or three WS2 grots mob a lone WS4 Marine, that Marine is toast under Necromunda rules.

Marines are a bit better than their human equivalents in the crunch. The fluff makes them out to have the stat line of Greater Demons.

By the way, where did you find marine rules for Necromunda? I thought I had all the rules.

That leads me to another thought. Is it properly Mary Sue if it has always been canon? The fluff on canon has been the same from the original Rogue Trader book. To be honest, that really proves your point in that they have had to edition the game more than once for the explicit purpose of putting Space Marines back on their plot pedestal.

Is it properly Mary Sue ?

Well, the specific definition varies a bit depending on whom you ask. When the term is used to describe a group or race (like Space Marines or elves), it's usually meant as a derisive complaint that the group or race is consistently depicted as being superior (often vastly superior) to regular people in practically every relevant capacity with few if any truly significant deficiencies.

I don't think the term Mary Sue applies to the lore/fluff incarnation of Space Marines, to be honest. And yes, in that lore, their relative strength/power has been consistent since Rogue Trader through Horus Heresy incarnations. They are substantially less godlike on the tabletop, though I must admit I'm only familiar with the strategy/miniature wargame version. But even there, I'd still put the ratio at 5-1 minimum vs. Guardsmen. (The difference? Power armor. That 3+ save is a huge deal compared to the 5+ save, especially when you factor in their toughness.) I have no doubt they are killable in the RPG versions, but (and this is just the fanboy in me speaking, not the fair-minded GM) I'd still put the lore/fluff higher in importance when considering designing an import.

But all of this is neither here nor there. The primary reason for not importing Space Marines into Star Wars is thematic and philosophical. Despite the presence of the adolescent-wish-fulfillment Jedi in Star Wars that setting still has a lot of real-life-esque barriers to munchkin murderhobo-ing your way to glory. 40K's warriors are straight out of a roid-rage heavy metal fantasy. They really clash with the tone and the feel of Star Wars, in my opinion. I love, love, love the story and the lore of 40K (esp. the Horus Heresy books, the first 10 of which are excellent), but they are a parallel dimension in terms of tone. I'd still vote "STAY AWAY" in large, heavy font block quotes.

ALL THAT SAID

If you really wanted to import something Space Marine-esque, you could use the Harakoni Warhawks or the Kasrkin as a template (and you could really just combine the two).

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Harakoni_Warhawks

Most Imperial Guard regiments are recruited to serve as basic heavy infantry. But some worlds, due to their particular cultural or environmental circumstances, produce more specialised and elite regiments. Among this group of Imperial Guard units can be counted the Harakoni Warhawks, who serve as highly mobile, elite airborne infantry equipped with sophisticated aircraft and Grav-Chutes intended to be used for deep strikes behind enemy lines. The Harakoni Warhawks are among the best rapid-response, highly mobile heavy infantry regiments that can be deployed by the Imperial Guard. Harakoni Warhawks are provided with high-quality armour and weapons and are extremely well-trained due to the difficulty required in mastering the tactics of airborne assault using Grav-Chutes and Valkyrie Airborne Assault Aircraft and Vulture gunships for support. The natives of Harakon also comprise an unusually high number of elite Storm Trooper companies and Special Weapons squadrons within their unit organisation.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Kasrkin

The Cadian Shock Troops are already known throughout the Imperium as a highly skilled and disciplined force, so the ranks of the Kasrkin are truly amongst the best of the best in the Imperial Guard. Many potential recruits for the Kasrkin are chosen at a young age when they are still serving as Whiteshields (new recruits) in the Cadian Planetary Defence Forces within the Cadian Youth Army. Those who are chosen must first prove themselves in the Shock Troops and become hardened veterans before they are guided to the Kasrkin. Their training is more than a match for that provided to the elite Imperial Storm Troopers (Kasrkin are the Cadian equivalent of the Storm Troopers) and they are utterly dedicated to the preservation of Cadia, whereas Imperial Storm Troopers are indoctrinated to provide for the defence of the entire Imperium of Man. Punishing regimes of additional training in the harshest warzones tempers each Kasrkin into a hardened fighter who is capable of facing the horrors of battle in the late 41st Millennium. To serve in the Kasrkin is a great honour, for they are amongst the finest troops in the Imperium. However, much is expected of such warriors -- the Kasrkin are constantly placed in the fiercest fighting, sent into battle against deadly foes, and relied upon to act above and beyond the call of duty in the Emperor's name. The roll of valour for the Kasrkin is long and well-respected, for they are warriors of exceptional courage. Many times, the tide of battle has been turned by the precise firepower and iron discipline of the Kasrkin.

Kasrkin are highly trained in the use of numerous heavy weapons, and are entrusted with special equipment of high quality and rare craftsmanship such as their Hellguns and Hotshot Lasguns, which are much more powerful versions of the normal Lasgun used by regular Guardsmen. They wear Carapace Armor and helmets sealed for hazardous environments. This armour also deflects and absorbs incoming projectiles far better than standard Imperial Guard Flak Armour. Kasrkin are also given minor biological modifications to allow them to move quickly despite their heavier gear. Kasrkin sergeants often wield rare and powerful equipment more commonly used by Imperial Guard officers such as Power Swords and hot-shot Laspistols. The Kasrkin often carry special weapons suited to their assault role on the battlefield and exceptional marksmanship, including Plasma Guns, Meltaguns, Grenade Launchers, and Flamers. True to their nature as Grenadiers, the Kasrkin carry both Frag Grenades and Krak Grenades and are extensively trained in the use of these weapons. Some chroniclers amongst the Tactica Imperialis have recorded a number of difficult fire fights in the Kasrkin's history that were resolved by the creative application of grenades.

AWAKE! FEAR! FIRE! FOES! AWAKE!

A Warp Gate has opened, a WH40K discussion is oozing through!

Sincerely, I'm getting somewhat irritated by this thread bobbing up every other minute, without any further information, whatsoever, related to the subject of this forum.

I might have got the OP's intent wrong, but,

Thanks everyone for your feedback, I did have alot of pros and alot of cons of my situation. I am taking alot of this into consideration and have decided to go other ways for my game that is why I always come to the forums to see what others would do with the same situations.

is reading like a polite closing post to me. And yes, I do apologise for posting this anyhow.

And as for what Desslok said, yes a grot could take down a marine, but in practice a squad of assault marines assaulting a mob of grots ended up with 30-40 dead grots and 1 dead marine. That is using the Necromunda era rules too.

I have fond memories of my Death Company assault marines. "Let's see, I get +1 because I'm assaulting you, +1 because my WS is higher, +1 'cause it's Tuesday..."

I don't think the term Mary Sue applies to the lore/fluff incarnation of Space Marines, to be honest. And yes, in that lore, their relative strength/power has been consistent since Rogue Trader through Horus Heresy incarnations. They are substantially less godlike on the tabletop, though I must admit I'm only familiar with the strategy/miniature wargame version. But even there, I'd still put the ratio at 5-1 minimum vs. Guardsmen. (The difference? Power armor. That 3+ save is a huge deal compared to the 5+ save, especially when you factor in their toughness.) I have no doubt they are killable in the RPG versions, but (and this is just the fanboy in me speaking, not the fair-minded GM) I'd still put the lore/fluff higher in importance when considering designing an import.

But all of this is neither here nor there. The primary reason for not importing Space Marines into Star Wars is thematic and philosophical. Despite the presence of the adolescent-wish-fulfillment Jedi in Star Wars that setting still has a lot of real-life-esque barriers to munchkin murderhobo-ing your way to glory. 40K's warriors are straight out of a roid-rage heavy metal fantasy. They really clash with the tone and the feel of Star Wars, in my opinion. I love, love, love the story and the lore of 40K (esp. the Horus Heresy books, the first 10 of which are excellent), but they are a parallel dimension in terms of tone. I'd still vote "STAY AWAY" in large, heavy font block quotes.

ALL THAT SAID

If you really wanted to import something Space Marine-esque, you could use the Harakoni Warhawks or the Kasrkin as a template (and you could really just combine the two).

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Harakoni_Warhawks

Harakoni Warhawks are really pretty close to the Republic's Rocket-Jumpers, circa 11000 BBY up until the Ruusan Reformation.

Sincerely, I'm getting somewhat irritated by this thread bobbing up every other minute, without any further information, whatsoever, related to the subject of this forum.

... he says without any further information, whatsoever, related to the subject of this forum.

*chuckles*

So as to not be one of those people, I'm with mouthymerc, who said:

Don't we already have an armoured-based culture in the Mandalorians?

AWAKE! FEAR! FIRE! FOES! AWAKE!

A Warp Gate has opened, a WH40K discussion is oozing through!

Sincerely, I'm getting somewhat irritated by this thread bobbing up every other minute, without any further information, whatsoever, related to the subject of this forum.

I might have got the OP's intent wrong, but,

Thanks everyone for your feedback, I did have alot of pros and alot of cons of my situation. I am taking alot of this into consideration and have decided to go other ways for my game that is why I always come to the forums to see what others would do with the same situations.

is reading like a polite closing post to me. And yes, I do apologise for posting this anyhow.

If I gotta keep reading Jedi threads y'all can read about 40K.

Is it properly Mary Sue ?

Well, the specific definition varies a bit depending on whom you ask. When the term is used to describe a group or race (like Space Marines or elves), it's usually meant as a derisive complaint that the group or race is consistently depicted as being superior (often vastly superior) to regular people in practically every relevant capacity with few if any truly significant deficiencies.

I was under the impression it had to be fanfic-esque sourced to be properly Mary Sue.