I'm pretty sure we got this right but I wanted to double check as there was some contention on this ruling.

Humans are at 6 distance and things are looking really ugly. Suddenly, the crisis Legendary Discovery pops up. The humans pass it and they are now at 7 distance. The rules say simply, when the humans reach seven distance they go to New Caprica. It does not say that they need to jump to arrive there. There was alot of debate that the Legendary Discovery doesnt even apply since it says you go one distance to KOBOL...not NC, also that simply jumping is required in order to Travel at all.

We felt that since it is clear that the sleeper phase is triggered by Legendary Discovery, and that for the spirit of the game Legendary Discovery extends to both Kobol and NC, that we would immediatly go to NC.

Whatcha guys think?

Napoleon

That sounds right to me, though I don't have the card text in front of me to be sure. It's definitely true that you don't have to jump to travel, and there's no way the card could have mentioed New Caprica, since that didn't exist when it was made.

We played in the following way when it came up:

1. The New Caprica phase immediately begins.

2. Cylon ships are *not* cleared from the board. Cylon ships are cleared when the fleet jumps, which did not actually happen.

We didn't notice the Kobol part of the card when it came up, I'm not sure we would have played it differently if we knew at the time.

Hmmm...that doesn't sound right though. My reasoning would be this, in the rules it says when you go to new caprica, not jump to new caprica but travel there the board is cleared except for anything put there by the destination deck. Since there was no destination deck involved in getting from 6 to the 7 traveled distance there was nothing being put into play by them. Unless there is an individual ruling on this card or errata I cannot see it working any other way.

Napoleon.

napoleonWilson said:

I think you've misread the rules. The relevant rule is step 2 of the New Caprica Phase setup, which reads:

"Main Game Board: Leave any centurion tokens on the Boarding Party track in their current position, as well as any Cylon ships placed in a space area by the Destination Card. These will remain in place and are unaffected by any game mechanic until Galactica returns to orbit."

Nowhere here, or anywhere else does it say to remove ships. Ships are only ever removed by destruction, crisis effects, or jumping, none of which are necessarily entailed by the scenario we have been talking about. The way it is written certainly assumes you are jumping, but does not say to explicitly remove ships, only to leave some on the board.

True,...but you have to take two rules and put them together. When Galacitca returns it gives a specific game board layout, that is what is on the board when she gets back. Step 2 says, as you note, the only thing left on the board are the centurions and cylon ships put there by the destination deck.. Those are the ONLY items to be included on the board after Galactica returns. Why would it specifically say there is only one condition in which ships are to be left on the board if they everything stays there anyways. I can see the argument, well ordinarlily the humans only travel when they jump in which case the board would be cleared. However, this doesn't seem logical because it is so specific as to what remains on the board in both the text which you quoted and teh NC phase return setup of Galactica gameboard, that the argument is not convincing enough,...

I will write into offical rules and see if I can post it....

Napoleon

It doesn't actually say those are the only things left on the board, nor does it ever tell you to remove everything else on the board. I can definitely see both sides, but a rules lawyery, "read only what it says and don't try to infer" approach would have you leaving everything on the board unless it was removed via jumping to New Caprica.

This topic should definately find a place on the FAQ.

You said it brother....

I sent off a rules clarification from the guru's,...if they actually get back to me I will try and post it up here.

Napoleon

James McMurray said:

Well, I don't want to infer anything. Inferences are inherently biased; 'reading between the lines' may serve to advance one's opinion about how things ought to be from a balance perspective (rather than how things are , from a rules perspective), or subconsciously attempt to provide an advantage for your current circumstances (I certainly don't mean to imply that anyone here is looking for an advantage in a game in progress, only why inferences are not always preferable). I offer the 'rules lawyery' interpretation because it offers no opinion, and offers no personal bias to cylon or human circumstance.

This isn't to say that inferences are always bad. Sometimes you justly infer your way around typos or rules contradictions. But this isn't really a typo or a rule contradiction, it's just a complicated scenario in which counter-intuitive rules take priority.

TBH, I can't see how much of a difference it would make, unless there were a truly huge number of non-basestar cylon ships on the table, and if that were the case, I don't imagine the humans would put in the effort to pass Legendary Discovery.

Gaius Frakkin Baltar said:

Most certainly. This scenario is quite bizarre and I'm quite certain it was not really intended. I offered a literal interpretation, but I have no idea how it affects game balance (I suspect it is pretty random anyway, given the scenario).

In case it wasn't clear, I'm in favor of the "rules lawyery" approach.

Ok....I got the response from Corey Konieczka this afternoon and gave me the official ruling....he says that we (our group) did in fact play the scenario correctly. He said that after legendary discovery flops down, the board would clear as per stated in the rules and NC would begin as normal.

I would post the email, but for somereason I cant get the forums to let me copy/paste the response from my hotmail account. However, for anybody interested I guess that is the final word on Legendary Discovery, It does count same the same as the distance travelled to Kobol and It activate the sympathizer step and begins NC exactly as if the fleet had jumped there.

Napoleon

Rule Question:
The humans are at 6 distance. there is a ton of cylon ships around galactica. The humans get the crisis Legendary Discovery, giving one extra travel distance.
The rules state...When the humans reach a distance of 7, they begin the New Caprica phase, jumping doesn't seem to be a prerequisite to adding to travel distance.
So we at this point believe we go to New Caprica immediatly.
Our second question is this...Do the cylon ships stay on the board around Galactica. We decided that since the rules SPECIFICALLY state, that at the start of the New Caprica phase, that only the centurion markers and anything left by the DESTINATION card remains on the board. Since there were no centurions on Galactica and we had no destination cards leaving anything we cleared the board in preperation for Galacticas return setup with 2 basestars and 8 raiders.
According to the rules, we don't see another interpretation...is this correct or is there some errata on Legendary Discovery that we just don't know about.
Thanks...

response...

You played correctly. All ships would be cleared off the board and you would begin the new caprica phase.

I hope this answers your question!
-Corey Konieczka
Lead Game Designer
Fantasy Flight Games

There we go...finally figured out how to Copy/Paste, sorry for double post, when it comes to computers I am a regular Harry Dresden.

Napoleon

Well, an interesting ruling. I suppose then, the rule that states that some ships are to remain implicitly means that others are removed (which is understandable).

More interesting for me is the implicit ruling that Legendary Discovery works with the New Caprica objective altogether, instead of it failing because it must be placed "next to the Kobol objective" as per its gametext.

James McMurray said:

+1

If you consider the Pegasus rules say that Pegasus ship can be substituted for Galactica whenever it mentions Galactica, I think it is in the same line of thinking that New Caprica could be substituted for Kobol.