Wait, so can Jedi Luke attack up to twice in an activation?

"Heroic: Once, during your activation, you may perform an attack without spending an action"

I know there's the core rule saying he can't, but that seems to say that he can't spend actions to attack more than once, but Heroic says he doesn't spend an action to do so...

"A figure that has a deployment can use only one of its actions to attack per activation"

I reckon he can't but it seems unclear.

Yes. Luke Skywalker Jedi Knight can spend one action to perform an attack, and then use Heroic to attack a second time. Or not spend actions to attack but still attack with Heroic.

The limitation is on performing only one action to attack. A figure can perform additional attacks during their activation if they come from abilities that are not actions. In the campaign Sustained Fire is such ability. Also, an action (Brutality) can still contain more than one attack without violating the rule.

It is not unclear. (Although RRG slips in a few places, it also specifies correctly that the limitation is on attacks performed from an action, not the number of attacks itself.)

-- A non-hero figure can use only one of its actions to perform an attack per activation.
· Numerous game effects allow figures to attack, rest, interact, or perform a move without performing an action.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1292078/multiple-attacks-how-do-they-work

Someone also quoted the FFG response confirming this on some other thread, but I wasn't able to locate it just now.

Yes, if something other than performing an action allows a figure to perform additional attacks, it may. The restriction on figures is that a figure may only spend 1 action to perform an attack per activation (this is why Vader’s Brutality, for example, is legal). So, if a Hired Gun performs an attack and then is defeated on its own activation, it may still performing its Parting Shot since that ability is not “spending an action to perform an attack.”

Thanks!


Paul Winchester
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

"A figure that has a deployment can use only one of its actions to attack per activation"

There are special actions, that grant several attacks (e.g. Brutality or Pummel). There are attacks, that aren't actions (e.g. Luke can attack with Heroic and still use an action to attack). There are ways to deal damage without attacking (e.g. a Stormtrooper can use Grenadier and still perform an attack). There are ways to attack outside of your activation (e.g. you can receive an Executive Order, even if you have attacked during your activation). All these do not contradict the cited core rule.

tbh he doesn't' say he can't attack twice anywhere. it says he doesn't need to use an action to attack. and since under the rules if you use something to attack once you can't attack a second time unless the card stats I would assume he can attack once. but could move attack then move again.

otherwise people could brutality then attack too

There is no rule that prevents more than one attack per activation.

The rule is that non-heroes cannot use more than one action that contains one or more attacks. This has been the rule since 2014, and has been confirmed by FFG.

See also https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/226794-jabbas-realm/page-4#entry2346901

and the associated discussion.

otherwise people could brutality then attack too

Brutality is a special action and counts as an attack action, because it contains performing one or more attacks. So, you are not allowed to perform Brutality and then a normal attack, because both are actions that contain attacks.

In the campaign you can perform Brutality to attack twice, then Sustained Fire to perform a third attack, because Sustained Fire is not an action.

In the same way Luke Skywalker Jedi Knight can use one (but not both) of his actions to attack, and also attack with Heroic, because Heroic isn't an action (either before or after his one attack action).

ahh but the power is called heroic it doesn't say this character is a hero.

So, if I am not spending an action, I could move two times and attack; or move, interact and attack, for example, as I am using only two actions.

found it

HERO

During the campaign, each rebel player controls a hero. the "hero" is used torefer to hero figures, the players controlling the figure and all of the associated components

so hero only applies to campaign not to skirmish so any character unless stated otherwise can only attack once in skirmish

so hero only applies to campaign not to skirmish so any character unless stated otherwise can only attack once in skirmish

Could you please ready my reply which explains it. There is no one-attack limitation for non-heroes, there is a one-attack-action limit of non-heroes.

Heroic has nothing to do with heroes. Heroic is an ability name , which allows a figure to perform an attack without spending an action once per activation.

Because Heroic isn't an action, it does not count towards the limit of one-attack-action per activation of non-heroes .

So, if I am not spending an action, I could move two times and attack; or move, interact and attack, for example, as I am using only two actions.

Yes, and also Attack (action), perform an attack (Heroic), and Move or Interact (action).

well I'll wait to see the full rules for it. if it is that way that's good and he will become a staple for rebels but we'll have to see

As you wish, but you already have the full rules for it.

Edit: added the quote from Paul in the post above there somewhere.

I struggled to understand this on a different thread but I'll copy my post here because it might help. Hope it helps

Posted 05 August 2016 - 09:15 PM

a1bert, on 05 Aug 2016 - 7:13 PM, said:

Masterchiefspiff, on 05 Aug 2016 - 6:59 PM, said:

But, both of those (verena and davith) specifically say "another" attack. Luke's makes no mention of that.

It cannot be an another attack if Luke does not spend either action to perform an attack. He can 2x move, spend movement points, attack from Heroic and spend more movement points. In Verena's and Davith's case they are always already performing an attack.

Trust me, the limitation is on attack actions per activation, not the number of attacks. One of the FFG responses have already been quoted in this thread confirming what I and Clipper (the current tech editor of IA) have been saying since 2014. (Which a quick google search will reveal.)

(Also, Jedi Knight Luke's Deployment card is full, there is no space for additional text. FFG tends to use as short ability text as possible, but they will add clarifications to the wordings when there is enough space and there is a significant chance of misunderstanding. Not all players are as well-versed in rules as some of us.)

Thanks for giving me the tip of looking for Clipper (didn't know who he was). That and some luck helped me find this on google. I didn't know what specifically to search for but ended up with "imperial assault multiple attacks" and found this:

https://boardgamegee...ow-do-they-work

It helped me get what you're saying.

Begin Quote:

Jorgen Peddersen

(Clipper)

To be fully clear, the usual restriction is not that non-heroes are limited to a single attack per activation. What they are limited to is only taking one action that involves attacks. The other action they take cannot involve attacks in any way.

Their attacking action may involve multiple attacks such as Darth Vader's Brutality and each attack is resolved separately in that case. Follow the steps for Attacks shown in the RRG in the Attacks section for each attack.

As Shnar said, the units with the Assault ability do not have the restriction on attack actions that other non-heroes have. They are allowed to use multiple actions in each activation that involve attacks. They could use two normal Attack Actions, or they could use a Special Action that involves an attack and a normal Attack Action in the same turn.

- Posted Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:06 pm

End Quote:

So, what I'm reading is that since Luke's heroic ability SPECIFICALLY states that this attack is NOT an action, that's the loophole that let's him perform up to two attacks in one activation. I really didn't know about this detailed explanation sooner (not that any of the previous abilities in the game really required this explanation to explain why abilities that blatantly override the single attack rule like Assault, Brutality, Enraged, Fighting Knife and Fell Swoop allow for extra attacks). It really does help explain the logic of what is really at work behind the mechanic of limiting attacks in a single activation - i.e. it's the spending of only ONE ACTION on an ATTACK (caps for clarification) that is limited.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I always thought the keyword that limited attacks in one activation was ATTACK and didn't ever zero in on the fact that it's only ONE ACTION can be USED/SPENT on an action that has the KEYWORD ATTACK in it per activation. Mind blown. Thanks for clearing that up, and I 100% agree that Jedi Luke can definitely attack up to twice in one activation, because he can spend on action on attacking and then also use Heroic to attack without spending any action.

I do a lot of rules reading and keeping up with this forum, but still missed this one (didn't start reading a lot until midway through 2015 though). I hope that my missing this and then trying to word it in a way I understood helps others get it too Thanks a1bert!

Edit: for some reason it double quoted the same thing at the beginning. Took that off.

Edited by Masterchiefspiff, 05 August 2016 - 09:16 PM.