It will be interesting, cause the one good point of Rhymer is that all other imperial bombers are a bit rubbish.

Keyan, Nym and Luke shine so much brighter.

Yes, of course, but their speed and their threat range compared to Rhymer's buddies is not even close.

Plus, because of their speed, they run into instances where they're tied up and prevented from performing their duties whereas with Rhymer/Dengar balls, this is virtually impossible.

My issue isn't even just that Rebel Bombers are way better, but ¾ of their Wave 1 squadrons were bombers (fluff, I accept that) whereas ¼ of Imperial squadrons were bombers. I also get the fluff there, but even with Wave 2 the Empire has so little bomber diversity.

I get that Rhymer is inhibiting, and it sucks that he has to be, but that's what it is. But at least some variety would be nice.

It will be interesting, cause the one good point of Rhymer is that all other imperial bombers are a bit rubbish.

Keyan, Nym and Luke shine so much brighter.

Yes, of course, but their speed and their threat range compared to Rhymer's buddies is not even close.

Plus, because of their speed, they run into instances where they're tied up and prevented from performing their duties whereas with Rhymer/Dengar balls, this is virtually impossible.

Not denying it, but imagine them running with Rhymer, range/speed no longer an issue

demolisher is fine. Gladiators are easily killed.

I've flown gladiator lists without demolisher also, it's great but naked Glads work well too, especially once the Arquitens comes out and you want a diverse imperial Swarm. Might need to save points there.

demolisher is fine. Gladiators are easily killed.

I've flown gladiator lists without demolisher also, it's great but naked Glads work well too, especially once the Arquitens comes out and you want a diverse imperial Swarm. Might need to save points there.

Naked Glads are just MC30's without TRC's.

It will be interesting, cause the one good point of Rhymer is that all other imperial bombers are a bit rubbish.

Keyan, Nym and Luke shine so much brighter.

Yes, of course, but their speed and their threat range compared to Rhymer's buddies is not even close.

Plus, because of their speed, they run into instances where they're tied up and prevented from performing their duties whereas with Rhymer/Dengar balls, this is virtually impossible.

Not denying it, but imagine them running with Rhymer, range/speed no longer an issue

Oh, I think I misunderstood then.

I'm really holding my breath to see what Corran will offer in his E-Wing. Imagine he gave Snipe to everyone within 1 LOL. (too good, ridiculous)

I'm really holding my breath to see what Corran will offer in his E-Wing. Imagine he gave Snipe to everyone within 1 LOL. (too good, ridiculous)

Corran has no special ability. Just better personal snipe.

I'm really holding my breath to see what Corran will offer in his E-Wing. Imagine he gave Snipe to everyone within 1 LOL. (too good, ridiculous)

Corran has no special ability. Just better personal snipe.

And rogue.

Awful.

demolisher is fine. Gladiators are easily killed.

I've flown gladiator lists without demolisher also, it's great but naked Glads work well too, especially once the Arquitens comes out and you want a diverse imperial Swarm. Might need to save points there.

Naked Glads are just MC30's without TRC's.

they are cheaper though. Can fit more of them.

demolisher is fine. Gladiators are easily killed.

I've flown gladiator lists without demolisher also, it's great but naked Glads work well too, especially once the Arquitens comes out and you want a diverse imperial Swarm. Might need to save points there.

Naked Glads are just MC30's without TRC's.

they are cheaper though. Can fit more of them.

Yup. the MC30 pays for its native speed 4 and that Turbolaser slot.

And redundant defense tokens, and red/ blue dice.

I think if ever there was proof that there's something wrong with Demo in the current, pre wave 3/4 meta, it's that we talk about it so **** much which little to no prompting.

That blue pie slice has to be waaaaaaay bigger.

I think if ever there was proof that there's something wrong with Demo in the current, pre wave 3/4 meta, it's that we talk about it so **** much which little to no prompting.

That blue pie slice has to be waaaaaaay bigger.

I love you all so much. . . I stay here through all the teasing. . . gods my post count is too fraking high. . .

Yes the talk of Nerf was in the air at Gencon. This is my take.

Out of my 5 games at Gencon I used Demo with double tap twice. Did I overly use him? Nope. Did I use him as bait? Yes. Did I use 3 other Gladiators? Yes. Did they pump out the damage more then Demo? Oh yell ya..

Demo is OP? no. He is easy to move in close and hit. He has all the same defense and HP as the other Glads. Lets Nerf those also right. Just because people like the Empire and do well at Regionals or Gencon we are thinking about this. I bet people now will start talking about Nerf-in Tractor beams or TRC's.

In reality the players that are getting beat with Demo are not prepared to handle him. Thats the single thing we are talking about. I went against a 3 Glad List one was Demo and a ton of fighters. I played one wrong move and let Demo beat me up. But I still took him out in the course of 1 round. I was prepared. ARE YOU! Oh I did that after loosing my Demo...

For the Dev who is thinking about this... Watch some games and ask yourself is the opponent prepared for a possible Demo list or did they mix up their strategy for Demo.. I change up on the fly and I am super flexible about how I play.

Naboobo2000

Chris Shaffer

Yes the talk of Nerf was in the air at Gencon. This is my take.

Out of my 5 games at Gencon I used Demo with double tap twice. Did I overly use him? Nope. Did I use him as bait? Yes. Did I use 3 other Gladiators? Yes. Did they pump out the damage more then Demo? Oh yell ya..

Demo is OP? no. He is easy to move in close and hit. He has all the same defense and HP as the other Glads. Lets Nerf those also right. Just because people like the Empire and do well at Regionals or Gencon we are thinking about this. I bet people now will start talking about Nerf-in Tractor beams or TRC's.

In reality the players that are getting beat with Demo are not prepared to handle him. Thats the single thing we are talking about. I went against a 3 Glad List one was Demo and a ton of fighters. I played one wrong move and let Demo beat me up. But I still took him out in the course of 1 round. I was prepared. ARE YOU! Oh I did that after loosing my Demo...

For the Dev who is thinking about this... Watch some games and ask yourself is the opponent prepared for a possible Demo list or did they mix up their strategy for Demo.. I change up on the fly and I am super flexible about how I play.

Naboobo2000

Chris Shaffer

You should play Rebels for a time. You will understand better I think then. To be fair you are also biased.

You are saying that everyone outside of the top 3 at GenCon was not prepared for Demolisher and that is why they were beaten. Was none of your 5 matches good?

Out of my 5 games at Gencon I used Demo with double tap twice. Did I overly use him? Nope.

Entirely irrelevant. It may have felt unimportant to you because you didn't get to use it much, but I guarantee it was the entire focus of your opponents' tactics. And if it wasn't, they lost. I'm sure you used it as bait, and that's great, but calling something "bait" that will ruin your whole day if you ignore it is kind of disingenuous.

The presence of that one ship forces me as your opponent to completely change my approach in dealing with your list. Which is not a bad thing in and of itself, but saying Demo isn't the lynchpin of a GGGG list is a pretty big stretch, regardless of how many triple taps you actually got.

How many CR90's had to play ridiculously defensively to avoid the long+ range one-shot on turns 1 and 2?

How many MC80's and VSD's were delayed from entering the fight for an extra turn or two so they could be screened from the threat of the triple tap?

How many squadrons had to make suicide charges against that one ship to try and take it down?

How many other fleet builds had to make major concessions in order to account for the probability that their biggest ship would get one-shotted if they didn't mitigate the Demo menace?

Most importantly, how many fleets that included a GSD did not include Demo? I'd wager that every single one did--certainly every one at the top tables did. And how many successful imperial lists didn't include either it or Rhymer (or, in both lists at the top table, both)? Are you really that happy running Demolisher every game? Because that's what you're advocating for here.

<snark>I guess that's a silly question--who doesn't like having the upper hand every game?</snark>

But seriously, it's terrible for the game's diversity, it's terrible to play against, and it absolutely needs a nerf. Not a huge one, but it does need it.

Out of my 5 games at Gencon I used Demo with double tap twice. Did I overly use him? Nope.

Entirely irrelevant. It may have felt unimportant to you because you didn't get to use it much, but I guarantee it was the entire focus of your opponents' tactics. And if it wasn't, they lost. I'm sure you used it as bait, and that's great, but calling something "bait" that will ruin your whole day if you ignore it is kind of disingenuous.

The presence of that one ship forces me as your opponent to completely change my approach in dealing with your list. Which is not a bad thing in and of itself, but saying Demo isn't the lynchpin of a GGGG list is a pretty big stretch, regardless of how many triple taps you actually got.

How many CR90's had to play ridiculously defensively to avoid the long+ range one-shot on turns 1 and 2?

How many MC80's and VSD's were delayed from entering the fight for an extra turn or two so they could be screened from the threat of the triple tap?

How many squadrons had to make suicide charges against that one ship to try and take it down?

How many other fleet builds had to make major concessions in order to account for the probability that their biggest ship would get one-shotted if they didn't mitigate the Demo menace?

Most importantly, how many fleets that included a GSD did not include Demo? I'd wager that every single one did--certainly every one at the top tables did. And how many successful imperial lists didn't include either it or Rhymer (or, in both lists at the top table, both)? Are you really that happy running Demolisher every game? Because that's what you're advocating for here.

<snark>I guess that's a silly question--who doesn't like having the upper hand every game?</snark>

But seriously, it's terrible for the game's diversity, it's terrible to play against, and it absolutely needs a nerf. Not a huge one, but it does need it.

Long range shots against Monferatt Demo. I know, I lost to the exact list played by this same person at Vancouver Regionals.

I think if ever there was proof that there's something wrong with Demo in the current, pre wave 3/4 meta, it's that we talk about it so **** much which little to no prompting.

That blue pie slice has to be waaaaaaay bigger.

Sorry but the biggest slice should be expansion speculation. And your missing HERO/Lyr arguments in said speculation threads.

Yes the talk of Nerf was in the air at Gencon. This is my take.

Out of my 5 games at Gencon I used Demo with double tap twice. Did I overly use him? Nope. Did I use him as bait? Yes. Did I use 3 other Gladiators? Yes. Did they pump out the damage more then Demo? Oh yell ya..

Demo is OP? no. He is easy to move in close and hit. He has all the same defense and HP as the other Glads. Lets Nerf those also right. Just because people like the Empire and do well at Regionals or Gencon we are thinking about this. I bet people now will start talking about Nerf-in Tractor beams or TRC's.

In reality the players that are getting beat with Demo are not prepared to handle him. Thats the single thing we are talking about. I went against a 3 Glad List one was Demo and a ton of fighters. I played one wrong move and let Demo beat me up. But I still took him out in the course of 1 round. I was prepared. ARE YOU! Oh I did that after loosing my Demo...

For the Dev who is thinking about this... Watch some games and ask yourself is the opponent prepared for a possible Demo list or did they mix up their strategy for Demo.. I change up on the fly and I am super flexible about how I play.

Naboobo2000

Chris Shaffer

You should play Rebels for a time. You will understand better I think then. To be fair you are also biased.

You are saying that everyone outside of the top 3 at GenCon was not prepared for Demolisher and that is why they were beaten. Was none of your 5 matches good?

What the heck are you talking about? Only Rebels fly against Demo? I flew against Demo at Gencon and was prepared and adjusted for it while in play. I flew against Demo last night without mine and wasn't concerned.

Please don't presume that you know what happened at Gencon or what my thoughts are. In my comment above where did I mention that people outside of top 3 where not prepared?

I have the upmost respect for all the competitors at Gencon or any other Tournament or even Local game nights and would never disrespect any other player or attempt to troll them on any forum.

Naboobo2000

Chris Shaffer

Yes the talk of Nerf was in the air at Gencon. This is my take.

Out of my 5 games at Gencon I used Demo with double tap twice. Did I overly use him? Nope. Did I use him as bait? Yes. Did I use 3 other Gladiators? Yes. Did they pump out the damage more then Demo? Oh yell ya..

Demo is OP? no. He is easy to move in close and hit. He has all the same defense and HP as the other Glads. Lets Nerf those also right. Just because people like the Empire and do well at Regionals or Gencon we are thinking about this. I bet people now will start talking about Nerf-in Tractor beams or TRC's.

In reality the players that are getting beat with Demo are not prepared to handle him. Thats the single thing we are talking about. I went against a 3 Glad List one was Demo and a ton of fighters. I played one wrong move and let Demo beat me up. But I still took him out in the course of 1 round. I was prepared. ARE YOU! Oh I did that after loosing my Demo...

For the Dev who is thinking about this... Watch some games and ask yourself is the opponent prepared for a possible Demo list or did they mix up their strategy for Demo.. I change up on the fly and I am super flexible about how I play.

Naboobo2000

Chris Shaffer

You should play Rebels for a time. You will understand better I think then. To be fair you are also biased.

You are saying that everyone outside of the top 3 at GenCon was not prepared for Demolisher and that is why they were beaten. Was none of your 5 matches good?

What the heck are you talking about? Only Rebels fly against Demo? I flew against Demo at Gencon and was prepared and adjusted for it while in play. I flew against Demo last night without mine and wasn't concerned.

Please don't presume that you know what happened at Gencon or what my thoughts are. In my comment above where did I mention that people outside of top 3 where not prepared?

I have the upmost respect for all the competitors at Gencon or any other Tournament or even Local game nights and would never disrespect any other player or attempt to troll them on any forum.

Naboobo2000

Chris Shaffer

Instead of being defensive, maybe you should consider what I am saying.

You are saying that people who lose to Demo are not prepared for Demo here let me quote you.

"In reality the players that are getting beat with Demo are not prepared to handle him."

Your words. You used Demo and beat people WITH Demo. Thus they were not prepared for it. Your. Words.

The people in the Top 3 all Had Demo. ALL. So everyone else must not of been prepared because they lost to player who used Demo. Once again, Your. Words.

I play both sides, I can handle Demo. Yet it does not mean that it is not the strongest ship upgrade in the game. It is used more than TRC's, more than Motti, more than any other card. Tell me how is that not powerful? Go on.

Play the other side, see how they have to deal with Demolisher.

Be upset, be agitated, whatever you want but I am not criticising your opponent, in fact I know one of them and knows he is one of the best players out there. I am criticising your words.

My mindset is can you think of any occasion where you would take a gladiator in your list without demo. Personally I can't think of any other ship/title/upgrade where this mindset is the same.

My mindset is can you think of any occasion where you would take a gladiator in your list without demo. Personally I can't think of any other ship/title/upgrade where this mindset is the same.

I got Mikael to do it! He is playing a multi glad list with NO demo or rhymer. I think he is enjoying those games!

My mindset is can you think of any occasion where you would take a gladiator in your list without demo. Personally I can't think of any other ship/title/upgrade where this mindset is the same.

I got Mikael to do it! He is playing a multi glad list with NO demo or rhymer. I think he is enjoying those games!

nice

Yes the talk of Nerf was in the air at Gencon. This is my take.

Out of my 5 games at Gencon I used Demo with double tap twice. Did I overly use him? Nope. Did I use him as bait? Yes. Did I use 3 other Gladiators? Yes. Did they pump out the damage more then Demo? Oh yell ya..

Demo is OP? no. He is easy to move in close and hit. He has all the same defense and HP as the other Glads. Lets Nerf those also right. Just because people like the Empire and do well at Regionals or Gencon we are thinking about this. I bet people now will start talking about Nerf-in Tractor beams or TRC's.

In reality the players that are getting beat with Demo are not prepared to handle him. Thats the single thing we are talking about. I went against a 3 Glad List one was Demo and a ton of fighters. I played one wrong move and let Demo beat me up. But I still took him out in the course of 1 round. I was prepared. ARE YOU! Oh I did that after loosing my Demo...

For the Dev who is thinking about this... Watch some games and ask yourself is the opponent prepared for a possible Demo list or did they mix up their strategy for Demo.. I change up on the fly and I am super flexible about how I play.

Naboobo2000

Chris Shaffer

You should play Rebels for a time. You will understand better I think then. To be fair you are also biased.

You are saying that everyone outside of the top 3 at GenCon was not prepared for Demolisher and that is why they were beaten. Was none of your 5 matches good?

What the heck are you talking about? Only Rebels fly against Demo? I flew against Demo at Gencon and was prepared and adjusted for it while in play. I flew against Demo last night without mine and wasn't concerned.

Please don't presume that you know what happened at Gencon or what my thoughts are. In my comment above where did I mention that people outside of top 3 where not prepared?

I have the upmost respect for all the competitors at Gencon or any other Tournament or even Local game nights and would never disrespect any other player or attempt to troll them on any forum.

Naboobo2000

Chris Shaffer

Instead of being defensive, maybe you should consider what I am saying.

You are saying that people who lose to Demo are not prepared for Demo here let me quote you.

"In reality the players that are getting beat with Demo are not prepared to handle him."

Your words. You used Demo and beat people WITH Demo. Thus they were not prepared for it. Your. Words.

The people in the Top 3 all Had Demo. ALL. So everyone else must not of been prepared because they lost to player who used Demo. Once again, Your. Words.

I play both sides, I can handle Demo. Yet it does not mean that it is not the strongest ship upgrade in the game. It is used more than TRC's, more than Motti, more than any other card. Tell me how is that not powerful? Go on.

Play the other side, see how they have to deal with Demolisher.

Be upset, be agitated, whatever you want but I am not criticising your opponent, in fact I know one of them and knows he is one of the best players out there. I am criticising your words.

See you don't have a clue..... Not one... Your attempt to troll is sad.

My last game of day 1 was a 3 glad demo build with lots of fighters.. I lost my demo to fighters and triple tap... My opponent set it up perfectly. While that was happening I set up the two counters and dropped Demo and another Glad..

Where did I say anything about players at Gencon not being prepared. Oh I know you read paragraph 1 and 3 and thought I was talking about the same thing... Your attempt to troll does not effect me in the slightest.. My words. If my opinion effects you we can talk in person.