I think if ever there was proof that there's something wrong with Demo in the current, pre wave 3/4 meta, it's that we talk about it so **** much which little to no prompting.

Now I feel like I gotta make more dumb jokes about the ewok illuminati just so I can get represented on the pie chart.

I don't know if I should be happy or ashamed that I am represented on that chart. I don't try to plug DtO it is just a good example for what is being talked about and is my best list so far. . .

Let me preface this next post with a statement, what I am about to say is an example, not putting people down, or trying to be nasty, or rude.

Lyraeus, in any given group of people who play a game, 1 a tiny % of them will use that games forums, 2 most players will perform averagely at said game, as an example I play World of Tanks on the console, I am ranked in the top 1% of the playerbase, out of over 100,000 players globally across all console platforms, I am rank 648. One of the primary reasons for this fact is, I take risks, when I play the game, and I quickly grasp the strenghts and weaknesses of the tanks I use, and play them to take full advantage of them.

I constantly see people sitting too far back, people not using their tanks to the best of its capabilities, under performing in them, some of them quite badly. And this is because people are risk averse, they like the safe known, not the dangerous unknown, not confident in their own abilities, or vastly overrating the abilities of others.

The same is true in Armada, we see a tiny percentage of users here, and a disproportionate amount of them are the better players of the game, which means most of the posters are the players that will end up in the top 5%, 1% and 0.1% of the player base, with a smattering (comparatively of average players).

What does that mean? why am I saying this? I am saying it because while me, you and others here, will run fleets that took some real work to understand and make work properly, or to find the ways in which to overcome the flaws of a particular vessel, most will not, most will try something once, get hammered and completely write something off, rather than try again, they will go back to something they know works, even if that is not particularly adventurous. This is why I see Motti and Dual ISDS and Rhymerballs two huge ships, with a ton of health, and Rhymer to extra damage, I mean you cannot get more safe.

Taking smaller ships, they are not comfortable using is a huge gamble, one most people will not risk.

I guess my rambling point is this, don't take this forum as a representation of the player base at large, because it is not, no game forums ever are.

I have a person in my meta who is like that. He wants a magic list that works and when he goes to tournaments and loses you know it is his inexperience with he list. . . Good guy, good player just easily frustrated

Cool. Let's play, I'm down.

Edit: Also, I don't know what I am like Green Knight means.

You say things that I know are not true.

Green Knight believes hat any Nebulon-B without Salvation and Yavaris on it is a bad ship.

You spout how your AckbarBB can take on anything which is fine but you have not experienced DtO or a Clonisher I think, or if you have not against a veteran opponent of that list. That that makes you a bit more arrogant. I fear that when you face those lists a few times, you will have the same reaction that you did to the Fireball.

Nerdfight!

Cool. Let's play, I'm down.

Edit: Also, I don't know what I am like Green Knight means.

You say things that I know are not true.

Green Knight believes hat any Nebulon-B without Salvation and Yavaris on it is a bad ship.

You spout how your AckbarBB can take on anything which is fine but you have not experienced DtO or a Clonisher I think, or if you have not against a veteran opponent of that list. That that makes you a bit more arrogant. I fear that when you face those lists a few times, you will have the same reaction that you did to the Fireball.

Rofl. I have fought against so many rebel swarm and demolisher lists that is not even funny. And my reaction to the fireball is what? That it's good? I had that reaction in December, made a post telling people that the fireball is something for to watch out for. It's now mid year 2016 past nationals and guess what, how many rhymer fireball variants did we see this year in the top tables? Zzz.

How about this, let's play some games. I don't think we've played, but you talk too **** much.

Cool. Let's play, I'm down.

Edit: Also, I don't know what I am like Green Knight means.

You say things that I know are not true.

Green Knight believes hat any Nebulon-B without Salvation and Yavaris on it is a bad ship.

You spout how your AckbarBB can take on anything which is fine but you have not experienced DtO or a Clonisher I think, or if you have not against a veteran opponent of that list. That that makes you a bit more arrogant. I fear that when you face those lists a few times, you will have the same reaction that you did to the Fireball.

Rofl. I have fought against so many rebel swarm and demolisher lists that is not even funny. And my reaction to the fireball is what? That it's good? I had that reaction in December, made a post telling people that the fireball is something for to watch out for. It's now mid year 2016 past nationals and guess what, how many rhymer fireball variants did we see this year in the top tables? Zzz.

How about this, let's play some games. I don't think we've played, but you talk too **** much.

I am up for it. It will be fun showing you the difference between a Rebel Swarm and what I play.

Cool. Let's play, I'm down.

Edit: Also, I don't know what I am like Green Knight means.

You say things that I know are not true.

Green Knight believes hat any Nebulon-B without Salvation and Yavaris on it is a bad ship.

You spout how your AckbarBB can take on anything which is fine but you have not experienced DtO or a Clonisher I think, or if you have not against a veteran opponent of that list. That that makes you a bit more arrogant. I fear that when you face those lists a few times, you will have the same reaction that you did to the Fireball.

Rofl. I have fought against so many rebel swarm and demolisher lists that is not even funny. And my reaction to the fireball is what? That it's good? I had that reaction in December, made a post telling people that the fireball is something for to watch out for. It's now mid year 2016 past nationals and guess what, how many rhymer fireball variants did we see this year in the top tables? Zzz.

How about this, let's play some games. I don't think we've played, but you talk too **** much.

I am up for it. It will be fun showing you the difference between a Rebel Swarm and what I play.

Likewise. Go to PM and schedule a game!

Ladies and gentlemen, place your bets. It is on!

Cool. Let's play, I'm down.

Edit: Also, I don't know what I am like Green Knight means.

You say things that I know are not true.

Green Knight believes hat any Nebulon-B without Salvation and Yavaris on it is a bad ship.

You spout how your AckbarBB can take on anything which is fine but you have not experienced DtO or a Clonisher I think, or if you have not against a veteran opponent of that list. That that makes you a bit more arrogant. I fear that when you face those lists a few times, you will have the same reaction that you did to the Fireball.

Rofl. I have fought against so many rebel swarm and demolisher lists that is not even funny. And my reaction to the fireball is what? That it's good? I had that reaction in December, made a post telling people that the fireball is something for to watch out for. It's now mid year 2016 past nationals and guess what, how many rhymer fireball variants did we see this year in the top tables? Zzz.

How about this, let's play some games. I don't think we've played, but you talk too **** much.

I am up for it. It will be fun showing you the difference between a Rebel Swarm and what I play.

Likewise. Go to PM and schedule a game!

I desperately want to watch this game. Please let me know when you guys schedule it.

Cool. Let's play, I'm down.

Edit: Also, I don't know what I am like Green Knight means.

You say things that I know are not true.

Green Knight believes hat any Nebulon-B without Salvation and Yavaris on it is a bad ship.

You spout how your AckbarBB can take on anything which is fine but you have not experienced DtO or a Clonisher I think, or if you have not against a veteran opponent of that list. That that makes you a bit more arrogant. I fear that when you face those lists a few times, you will have the same reaction that you did to the Fireball.

Rofl. I have fought against so many rebel swarm and demolisher lists that is not even funny. And my reaction to the fireball is what? That it's good? I had that reaction in December, made a post telling people that the fireball is something for to watch out for. It's now mid year 2016 past nationals and guess what, how many rhymer fireball variants did we see this year in the top tables? Zzz.

How about this, let's play some games. I don't think we've played, but you talk too **** much.

I am up for it. It will be fun showing you the difference between a Rebel Swarm and what I play.

Likewise. Go to PM and schedule a game!

I desperately want to watch this game. Please let me know when you guys schedule it.

I'll upload the vlog to this thread. It's going to be BigFish vs. DtO.

Let's play a game: Knowing what you know about the list archetypes, who do you think has the fleet advantage?

Where is biggs, can we get a matchup of the week on this? Lets get in the booth mustache man!

Guys start a new thread as this is gonna go on for a while and has zero to do with nerfing demo or rhymer....

Cool. Let's play, I'm down.

Edit: Also, I don't know what I am like Green Knight means.

You say things that I know are not true.

Green Knight believes hat any Nebulon-B without Salvation and Yavaris on it is a bad ship.

You spout how your AckbarBB can take on anything which is fine but you have not experienced DtO or a Clonisher I think, or if you have not against a veteran opponent of that list. That that makes you a bit more arrogant. I fear that when you face those lists a few times, you will have the same reaction that you did to the Fireball.

Rofl. I have fought against so many rebel swarm and demolisher lists that is not even funny. And my reaction to the fireball is what? That it's good? I had that reaction in December, made a post telling people that the fireball is something for to watch out for. It's now mid year 2016 past nationals and guess what, how many rhymer fireball variants did we see this year in the top tables? Zzz.

How about this, let's play some games. I don't think we've played, but you talk too **** much.

I am up for it. It will be fun showing you the difference between a Rebel Swarm and what I play.

Likewise. Go to PM and schedule a game!

I desperately want to watch this game. Please let me know when you guys schedule it.

I'll upload the vlog to this thread. It's going to be BigFish vs. DtO.

Let's play a game: Knowing what you know about the list archetypes, who do you think has the fleet advantage?

Oh man tough to say. I'm not sure I've heard of this "DtO" before.

What are your restrictions by the way gentlemen? Wave 2? Or 3/4?

Oh man tough to say. I'm not sure I've heard of this "DtO" before.

Oh man tough to say. I'm not sure I've heard of this "DtO" before.

Favorite post of the day.

Cool. Let's play, I'm down.

Edit: Also, I don't know what I am like Green Knight means.

You say things that I know are not true.

Green Knight believes hat any Nebulon-B without Salvation and Yavaris on it is a bad ship.

You spout how your AckbarBB can take on anything which is fine but you have not experienced DtO or a Clonisher I think, or if you have not against a veteran opponent of that list. That that makes you a bit more arrogant. I fear that when you face those lists a few times, you will have the same reaction that you did to the Fireball.

Rofl. I have fought against so many rebel swarm and demolisher lists that is not even funny. And my reaction to the fireball is what? That it's good? I had that reaction in December, made a post telling people that the fireball is something for to watch out for. It's now mid year 2016 past nationals and guess what, how many rhymer fireball variants did we see this year in the top tables? Zzz.

How about this, let's play some games. I don't think we've played, but you talk too **** much.

I am up for it. It will be fun showing you the difference between a Rebel Swarm and what I play.

Likewise. Go to PM and schedule a game!

I desperately want to watch this game. Please let me know when you guys schedule it.

I'll upload the vlog to this thread. It's going to be BigFish vs. DtO.

Let's play a game: Knowing what you know about the list archetypes, who do you think has the fleet advantage?

Oh man tough to say. I'm not sure I've heard of this "DtO" before.

What are your restrictions by the way gentlemen? Wave 2? Or 3/4?

You haven't heard about it? It's practically in every other post that Lyraeus makes.

It's a TRC90 swarm list with Dodonna and Intel Officers with a MC30 splashed in there.

Guys start a new thread as this is gonna go on for a while and has zero to do with nerfing demo or rhymer....

Starting one right now

That was very much sarcasm hero.

Guys start a new thread as this is gonna go on for a while and has zero to do with nerfing demo or rhymer....

Oh no, we wouldn't want to get off topic on this extremely valuable discussion that we've never had before.

Guys start a new thread as this is gonna go on for a while and has zero to do with nerfing demo or rhymer....

So yes, I think Rhymer is much more over the top ridiculous than Demolisher. I think even with Snipe coming in, he's still a ridiculous force multiplier that will be an auto-include.

Guys start a new thread as this is gonna go on for a while and has zero to do with nerfing demo or rhymer....

So yes, I think Rhymer is much more over the top ridiculous than Demolisher. I think even with Snipe coming in, he's still a ridiculous force multiplier that will be an auto-include.

I'm really curious as to what they are going to do with the bomber unique and ace squadron in correllian conflict. How sick does it have to be to compete with rhymer? Or do they just punt that one?

Guys start a new thread as this is gonna go on for a while and has zero to do with nerfing demo or rhymer....

So yes, I think Rhymer is much more over the top ridiculous than Demolisher. I think even with Snipe coming in, he's still a ridiculous force multiplier that will be an auto-include.

I'm really curious as to what they are going to do with the bomber unique and ace squadron in correllian conflict. How sick does it have to be to compete with rhymer? Or do they just punt that one?

Unless it explicitly doesn't work with Rhymer, or is a different Rhymer, it can't just be really good.

Because then you can still take it and Rhymer.

What they need is a different Rhymer that is pretty good, and gives you a points discount on all squadrons with Bomber.

That way we have an option to not play Rhymer, and not still pay the Rhymer tax.

I'm really curious as to what they are going to do with the bomber unique and ace squadron in correllian conflict. How sick does it have to be to compete with rhymer? Or do they just punt that one?

I think the problem is the other way. Its not like aces take up slots, you can have Rhymer and whatever other squadrons you can afford. I think the other bombers would need to be underpowered so they don't synergies with Rhymer too much.

ninja'd

It will be interesting, cause the one good point of Rhymer is that all other imperial bombers are a bit rubbish.

Keyan, Nym and Luke shine so much brighter.

I'm really curious as to what they are going to do with the bomber unique and ace squadron in correllian conflict. How sick does it have to be to compete with rhymer? Or do they just punt that one?

I think the problem is the other way. Its not like aces take up slots, you can have Rhymer and whatever other squadrons you can afford. I think the other bombers would need to be underpowered so they don't synergies with Rhymer too much.

ninja'd

That's the problem with power pieces like Rhymer. You end up designing yourself into a corner. Ultimately they may just have to straight up nerf him, but I don;t see that happening anytime soon.

That's because they're all elite...

When you step back and go to compare, baseline:

1) a 9pt TIE Bombers (5 Hull, Speed 4, Black AS, Black Battery)

to
2) a 10pt Y-Wing (6 Hull, Speed 3, Blue-Blue AS, Black Battery)

You realise that the Y-Wing has basically paid a Point for a Hull, and lost a Speed for no Benefit...

because Blue-Blue averages out at about 1 point of Damage, and Black averages out at about 1 point of damage...

... At best, you can argue the Y has paid a point to possibly do a damage AND an acc to an enemy squadron... Which, isn't what you intend to be shooting at anyway...

Rhymer is a force multiplier beyond all others.

Give Rebels a Rhymer and things will be Unbalancedly-balanced! *

* I am kidding. Do not do this.