Squadronless builds?

Not quite yet, because we're still waiting on releases of the actual mayhem, but Sato, Torryn, and Bomber Commands allowing multiple rerolls! all adding up to a real bad day if you get caught with no squadrons.

And thats before we get all the new squadrons.

I know there is many possible fleet builds, and Admiral choices, but still, it would be an almighty spanking if you do end up facing even a token squadron build with the new stuff.

Would you risk it?

I want to try a pure Arquitens build. Then one with some raiders. Maybe a demo too.

We have a couple guys that still keep trying it. They usually end up getting mauled by B-wings. None of our Rebel players have gone squadronless in some time now.

Don't get me wrong, atm with just what we have actually released (not Vassal) no squadron builds can work very very well.

But I'd be lying if looking over what has been shown so far, if it was not making me think, "I'd be crazy to risk it."

Are there not enough point defense upgrades to scare them off? I run a rebel fighter fleet in a local campaign league and in one game concentrated AA fire was very close to removing my air force.

FCT+FC+Yavaris and Bomber Command existing means that you are kind of asking for it without any squadrons. I went squadronless a ton, and it was dodgy, but as long as I got average or above rolls on carriers I could usually deal with it. I try to build lists capable of handling whatever might possibly come, and there are too many resilient (i.e. Flotillas) carriers that it is just too risky in my opinion. MAYBE high activation ISDs still works, but the rebel squadronless swarm is dead for sure. I try to bring at least 4 squadrons to tie stuff up.

the end of...ellipses...?

...no

...

I loved 5 activation fleets for most of wave 2, but towards the end I've been leaning towards dropping an activation for 4 or 5 rogues, whether yt2400s or aggressors. It's taken a lot of the pressure off against carrier fleets, and against squadronless fleets 4 black dice every round against whatever hull zone I want makes up for the lost activation. Until/unless we get some much better point defense upgrades, squeezing a fifth ship is just going to be worse than taking 60 or so points of squadrons

I don't think the end of ellipses will happen for quite some time

Squadronless builds?

Not quite yet, because we're still waiting on releases of the actual mayhem, but Sato, Torryn, and Bomber Commands allowing multiple rerolls! all adding up to a real bad day if you get caught with no squadrons.

And thats before we get all the new squadrons.

I know there is many possible fleet builds, and Admiral choices, but still, it would be an almighty spanking if you do end up facing even a token squadron build with the new stuff.

Would you risk it?

I will still fly DtO.

It is not always about the squadrons though they help immensely.

The main problem is flotillas make it so you can have 5 activations and still have squadrons, which takes away one of the main advantages of squadronless builds. Not being able to out activate AND having activated squadrons nipping at you hurts.

The main problem is flotillas make it so you can have 5 activations and still have squadrons, which takes away one of the main advantages of squadronless builds. Not being able to out activate AND having activated squadrons nipping at you hurts.

Sure, though as we have seen today, out activating someone may not be all there is to the game.

People made it pretty far at GenCon with no squadrons. But not to the final table.

clickbait?

The main problem is flotillas make it so you can have 5 activations and still have squadrons, which takes away one of the main advantages of squadronless builds. Not being able to out activate AND having activated squadrons nipping at you hurts.

Sure, though as we have seen today, out activating someone may not be all there is to the game.

Absolutely, and what did they have in lieu of activations? Squadrons, and a ton of them. Now that Squadrons get some janky moving and rerolls, they are too good to not bring, especially with the new pocket carriers.

The main problem is flotillas make it so you can have 5 activations and still have squadrons, which takes away one of the main advantages of squadronless builds. Not being able to out activate AND having activated squadrons nipping at you hurts.

Sensor teams

I run a wave III build with just Tycho for squad ptotection. Fast ships are still capable of dodging squadrons well, and sensor teams makes it really easy to kill a flotilla or raider and get activation advantage.

What were seeing is a lack of pure fighter builds, howl, fel, interceptors. Without these bomber wings are largely uncontested which makes them viable. Things will swing back round.

The more anti squad squadron in an average list, the better no squadron lists do.

clickbait?

No sir, genuine question for the community.

The main problem is flotillas make it so you can have 5 activations and still have squadrons, which takes away one of the main advantages of squadronless builds. Not being able to out activate AND having activated squadrons nipping at you hurts.

Sure, though as we have seen today, out activating someone may not be all there is to the game.

Absolutely, and what did they have in lieu of activations? Squadrons, and a ton of them. Now that Squadrons get some janky moving and rerolls, they are too good to not bring, especially with the new pocket carriers.

That is the flip side of the discussion, can you afford not to include the versatility of rerollable bomber dice, I have had a real issue with my T/B rolling blanks at crunch moments, being able to reroll that potentially several times is going to go a long way to me thinking "Now I can take them, and have them do what I need them to."

I am seriously intrigued by the idea of a Raider / Flotilla build, with Rhymer and 13 Tie Bombers. Or the new Acquitens (sp?) and Flotilla with the giant Rhymer Ball.

I don't think so but it definitely will be harder to field a successful one unless we get some really good antisquadron upgrades

Fletchette Torpedoes seems to go that way...

Looks like you can spend a black anti-squadron dice to toggle activation sliders.

Fletchette Torpedoes seems to go that way...

Looks like you can spend a black anti-squadron dice to toggle activation sliders.

I actually think going without squads will be more and difficult as we head into Wave 5.

As i see it, building a "balanced" fleet that is prepared for everything is going to get harder and harder:

Do you have a Demo counter?

Do you have a squadron counter?

Do you prepare for the Interdictor Grav-shift/well shenanigans (trust me folks, these are amazing and real)?

Are you prepared for Sato and his ever changing dice?

Etc, etc.

You will not be able to be prepared for everything now. We haven't even seen all of the Wave 5 cards and my head is spinning with possibilities.

That said, there will be too many squad combinations that will absolutely tear the $#%* out of a no-squads fleet. Having some semblance of an anti-squad will give you the most flexibility against the upcoming squadron extravaganza.

Again there are also the flotillas which are a hybrid between squadrons and small ships. So think we have seen the end of capital ship only builds in competitive but I don't think we have seen the end of squadron-less builds.

I actually think going without squads will be more and difficult as we head into Wave 5.

As i see it, building a "balanced" fleet that is prepared for everything is going to get harder and harder:

Do you have a Demo counter?

Do you have a squadron counter?

Do you prepare for the Interdictor Grav-shift/well shenanigans (trust me folks, these are amazing and real)?

Are you prepared for Sato and his ever changing dice?

Etc, etc.

You will not be able to be prepared for everything now. We haven't even seen all of the Wave 5 cards and my head is spinning with possibilities.

That said, there will be too many squad combinations that will absolutely tear the $#%* out of a no-squads fleet. Having some semblance of an anti-squad will give you the most flexibility against the upcoming squadron extravaganza.

I think it also comes down to your method of handling these things.

You dont always need a hard counter if you know how to handle a situation or how things work.

Unless you had Raiders, we saw the end of squadronless builds in Wave 2..

Unless you had Raiders, we saw the end of squadronless builds in Wave 2..