Even putting palp and ren on Patrol leader will be already at 51 points. Not sure how much actual play this will get. There are only 2 blinded pilot cards in the deck anyway and spending palp on this would not be the best use of him.

Why would you spend Palp on the attack if you weren't already going to do so just to get the extra hits? There's enough things out there that get consistent enough crit results that you don't have to burn Palp to manufacture one unless it's going to be a game changing shot.

Against a lot of ships Damaged Cockpit or Stunned Pilot are going to be as good as or better then a Blinded Pilot.

Kylo's interaction with both Leebo and Maarek will indeed need to be clarified. The idea that they just interact like Leebo and Maarek do (draw extra cards in addition to whatever's dealt, then pick one) would be clearly too powerful. Kylo could choose any pilot crit and then Maarek could draw 2 more in addition to the one dealt and pick one of those 3. Theoretically could 1-shot a 2-hull ship that way as there's a good chance one of the other cards would be direct hit or at least major explosion. And yes, per game rules you could use Maarek as the faceup card is clearly dealt during his attack (dealing damage and assigning damage cards is obviously part of the attack). For it not to work FAQ would have to state that while IWSYTDS affects the assigning damage step, it is actually an ability that triggers after the attack, much like Boba. Or simply state that IWSYTDS supersedes any other abilities that might replace the chosen damage card with another one, no matter the source.

Steele should be easy

He's not dealing any critical damage because the condition deals the face up INSTEAD. His CRIT damage just triggers the condition

Leebo meanwhile should work just fine. Condition deals its card, leebo draws another from his damage deck, picks one and dumps the other. His ability doesn't care what the source is

Steele should be easy

He's not dealing any critical damage because the condition deals the face up INSTEAD. His CRIT damage just triggers the condition

Maarek attacks, uncanceled critical goes through. Replacement effect triggers and instead of crit damage it's a faceup card. Replacement effect triggers and instead of the card from the condition going on the enemy 3 cards are drawn and 1 is picked from those 3 (not including the condition card). The picked card is assigned, 2 extras are discarded and final total from that 1 uncanceled crit results is the condition looks the same and the target has 1 faceup card from the 3 drawn assigned to it.

The key is that the critical damage is replaced by a faceup card triggering Maarek to replace the condition card with 3 cards drawn from the top. If Maarek read 'draw 2 additional cards...' instead of ' draw 3 cards instead...' then we would just have a situation similar to Leebo. As is as written Maarek's uncanceled crits bypass shields until the target is dead or something else uses the condition crit.

Steele should be easy

He's not dealing any critical damage because the condition deals the face up INSTEAD. His CRIT damage just triggers the condition

Yeah that's why he's a problem. His ability triggers when his attack deals a faceup damage card. So we get a replacement stack.

Maarek attacks, uncanceled critical goes through. Replacement effect triggers and instead of crit damage it's a faceup card. Replacement effect triggers and instead of the card from the condition going on the enemy 3 cards are drawn and 1 is picked from those 3 (not including the condition card). The picked card is assigned, 2 extras are discarded and final total from that 1 uncanceled crit results is the condition looks the same and the target has 1 faceup card from the 3 drawn assigned to it.

The key is that the critical damage is replaced by a faceup card triggering Maarek to replace the condition card with 3 cards drawn from the top. If Maarek read 'draw 2 additional cards...' instead of ' draw 3 cards instead...' then we would just have a situation similar to Leebo. As is as written Maarek's uncanceled crits bypass shields until the target is dead or something else uses the condition crit.

Precisely. Maarek's ability is as follows:

When your attack deals a faceup Damage Card to the defender, instead draw 3 Damage cards, choose 1 to deal and discard the others.

Is the attack happening? Yes

Is a faceup Damage Card dealt to the defender? Yes

Therefore instead of assigning the card you draw 3 cards, choose 1 to deal and discard the others. End of story unless FAQ states otherwise.

I suppose you could argue that it's not the attack that deals a faceup Damage Card and treat IWSYTDS as a separate source of damage but that's slippery at best. IWSYTDS does not cause damage, it only replaces one point of critical damage with one particular pre-chosen faceup card. If you treated it as a separate source of damage you would also need to treat Bossk's pilot ability as such since it does more or less the same - modifies the damage dealt.

Idk I'm reading it as the condition deals the face up rather than the attack (Steele)

But that isn't something I'm confident enough to say with certainty. I've done my job just with the whole "suffer a critical damage" thing

I think what happens is you remove the card from Ren's status card, then draw two more, and take your pick. This means that the condition is ended - but also that you got to choose twice. And could potentially draw a Direct Hit, straight through shields.

Is this flow right? If so, Maarek just got, um, buffed. O.o

I think what happens is you remove the card from Ren's status card, then draw two more, and take your pick. This means that the condition is ended - but also that you got to choose twice. And could potentially draw a Direct Hit, straight through shields.

Is this flow right? If so, Maarek just got, um, buffed. O.o

This is very likely the intended effect (which is already very good).

Purely as written though you don't deal the faceup damage card you were going to normally (Kylo card) and instead of dealing that card draw 3, pick 1, discard the other 2. This becomes a loophole where Kylo let's you bypass shields and Maarek's wording bypasses the condition card for 3 completely different cards instead. This comes from Maarek's text assuming the only way to deal a faceup card during an attack is from the damage deck already, which previously was a safe assumption. My prediction is Maarek will be errata'd to mirror Leebo whereby he draws 2 additional cards and picks from the total of 3, which achieves what I assume is the intended effect.

Determination is one of the better defensive cards in the game. Granted, it was much better back when injured pilot was a thing, but it can still be a solid choice on ships that have an open EPT slot. It's also an amazingly solid card on Decimators. For one point you can do way worse.

I used to run it on Vader all the time before the PS wars got ridiculous. You won't use it every match, but I discarded two blinded pilots with it in one game.

I think it doesn´t ignore shields

I think it doesn´t ignore shields

i like your reasoning.

I think it doesn´t ignore shields

i like your reasoning.

According to the rules, yo only suffer a critical hit if it hits your UNSHIELDED hull.

The effects that bypass shields (for example, proton bombs) says textually "the ship suffer a faceup damage card".

I think it doesn´t ignore shields

i like your reasoning.

According to the rules, yo only suffer a critical hit if it hits your UNSHIELDED hull.

The effects that bypass shields (for example, proton bombs) says textually "the ship suffer a faceup damage card".

According to the rules, you don't look at whether the ship has shields remaining until AFTER you suffer critical damage. Thus this thread.

I think it doesn´t ignore shields

i like your reasoning.

According to the rules, yo only suffer a critical hit if it hits your UNSHIELDED hull.

The effects that bypass shields (for example, proton bombs) says textually "the ship suffer a faceup damage card".

ner

see it's like I said, we incorrectly associate "critical damage" with face-up damage card

they aren't the same thing

When you suffer critical damage and have no shield tokens to remove, the damage card you are dealt is dealt face-up (as opposed to normal damage, which is face down). that's the explicit relationship between the two. They are NOT and never have been the same thing.

by contrast, proton bombs DO NOT deal critical damage and they never have. They just deal a face-up damage card.

Dark Side Showing, exactly like proton bombs, also deals a face-up damage card. It does this instead of dealing critical damage

and just so we're extra clear, critical damage is ANYTHING defined as either "critical damage "(see Vader crew) or anything that rolls a crit result that is not or cannot be canceled:

1. most commonly, uncancelled CRIT results on attacks
2. obstacle damage rolls that turn up CRITs inflict critical damage
3. proximity mines make the overlapping ship suffer all damage (HIT) and critical damage (CRIT) rolled

IN ALL THESE CASES, the ship suffering critical damage either loses a shield token or receives a damage card face-up, because that's what critical damage does

Another of these "No, I can't believe it does THAT" nightmare to explain cards.

Another of these "No, I can't believe it does THAT" nightmare to explain cards.

But honestly, I prefer this to bossk and r7-t1

Kylo Ren (vis-a-vis his trigger not so much other weird interactions) is worded PERFECTLY with the clearly defined base rules, as was Omega Leader despite initial confusion

In this case, he's just bringing up an age old misappropriation of the term "critical damage" which persisted despite the fact that Vader (crew) deals critical damage, has never bypassed shields and has existed since wave 3

R7-t1 and Bossk crew are worse because the actual English of their abilities are really painfully confusingly arranged

To this day, I still don't know if r7-t1 needs and 2 AND arc for both the TL and the boost, or just the TL

To this day, I still don't know if r7-t1 needs and 2 AND arc for both the TL and the boost, or just the TL

He needs to be in arc at range 1-2 to trigger both.

I think people are seeing ghosts where there is nothing.

Always, to be able to "suffer a critical damage" you must receive an unevaded critical damage against the hull. That´s all, no more complications.

For example Vader crew makes a critical damage and has never ignored shields.

Seriosuly, if I play against someone in a tournament, I have a enough shields and he makes me a critical and tries to apply the Kylo Ren crew bypassing the shields, I will think he is trolling me.

I think people are seeing ghosts where there is nothing.

Always, to be able to "suffer a critical damage" you must receive an unevaded critical damage against the hull. That´s all, no more complications.

For example Vader crew makes a critical damage and has never ignored shields.

Seriosuly, if I play against someone in a tournament, I have a enough shields and he makes me a critical and tries to apply the Kylo Ren crew bypassing the shields, I will think he is trolling me.

uh...

see you have the definition of critical damage right, but you're ignoring what the condition does

again

"When you suffer critical damage during an attack, you are instead dealt the chosen faceup Damage card"

in short,

Critical damage does not have to go through shields to be considered critical damage

When critical damage is dealt, I Will Show You The Dark Side deals a face-up damage card INSTEAD

INSTEAD of losing a shield, you are dealt the chosen face-up damage card

example: "Backdraft" shoots at Corran Horn

without Kylo

1. Backdraft scores two hits and a crit
2. Corran Horn uses evade results to cancel the two hits
3. Corran Horn takes an uncanceled critical result and suffers 1 critical damage
4. Corran Horn loses a shield or, if he has no shields, is dealt a damage card face-up

with Kylo

1. Backdraft scores two hits and a crit
2. Corran Horn uses evade results to cancel the two hits
3. Corran Horn takes an uncanceled critical result and suffers 1 critical damage
4. Corran Horn loses a shield or, if he has no shields, is dealt a damage card face-up
5. INSTEAD, Corran Horn is dealt the chosen face-up damage card

I think people are seeing ghosts where there is nothing.

Always, to be able to "suffer a critical damage" you must receive an unevaded critical damage against the hull. That´s all, no more complications.

For example Vader crew makes a critical damage and has never ignored shields.

Seriosuly, if I play against someone in a tournament, I have a enough shields and he makes me a critical and tries to apply the Kylo Ren crew bypassing the shields, I will think he is trolling me.

Vader deals a critical damage. The rules normally let you remove a shield token if you have one. If you don't have one the rules instruct you to deal yourself a face up damage card.

The IWSYTDS condition tells you to do something instead of following the normal rules for applying a critical damage. It tells to to take the face-up card that has been chosen.

It absolutely goes through shields.

As written, Ren goes through shields. Anyone arguing otherwise needs to stop, read the rules that have been posted here MANY times, and think critically (heh) about it. And I mean the ACTUAL rules, not personal interpretations or expectations.

As written, Ren goes through shields.

Feel free to balk at FFG and voice legitimate concern at possible poor writing -- that's nothing we haven't seen before.

But, as written in the English language we see in the card images posted, Ren's ability triggers on a CRITICAL DAMAGE, not a DAMAGE CARD. At no point does it say you need to draw a card to trigger his effect.

Again, complain about what may or may not have been intended, but the language is explicit as it stands and to argue differently shows ignorance and/or stubbornness.

Personal interpretations, possible intent, etc... do not trump the language on the card.

I think people are seeing ghosts where there is nothing.

Always, to be able to "suffer a critical damage" you must receive an unevaded critical damage against the hull. That´s all, no more complications.

For example Vader crew makes a critical damage and has never ignored shields.

Seriosuly, if I play against someone in a tournament, I have a enough shields and he makes me a critical and tries to apply the Kylo Ren crew bypassing the shields, I will think he is trolling me.

uh...

see you have the definition of critical damage right, but you're ignoring what the condition does

again

"When you suffer critical damage during an attack, you are instead dealt the chosen faceup Damage card"

in short,

Critical damage does not have to go through shields to be considered critical damage

When critical damage is dealt, I Will Show You The Dark Side deals a face-up damage card INSTEAD

INSTEAD of losing a shield, you are dealt the chosen face-up damage card

example: "Backdraft" shoots at Corran Horn

without Kylo

1. Backdraft scores two hits and a crit
2. Corran Horn uses evade results to cancel the two hits
3. Corran Horn takes an uncanceled critical result and suffers 1 critical damage
4. Corran Horn loses a shield or, if he has no shields, is dealt a damage card face-up

with Kylo

1. Backdraft scores two hits and a crit
2. Corran Horn uses evade results to cancel the two hits
3. Corran Horn takes an uncanceled critical result and suffers 1 critical damage
4. Corran Horn loses a shield or, if he has no shields, is dealt a damage card face-up
5. INSTEAD, Corran Horn is dealt the chosen face-up damage card

Suck It Corran!

I think people are seeing ghosts where there is nothing.

Always, to be able to "suffer a critical damage" you must receive an unevaded critical damage against the hull. That´s all, no more complications.

For example Vader crew makes a critical damage and has never ignored shields.

Seriosuly, if I play against someone in a tournament, I have a enough shields and he makes me a critical and tries to apply the Kylo Ren crew bypassing the shields, I will think he is trolling me.

uh...

see you have the definition of critical damage right, but you're ignoring what the condition does

again

"When you suffer critical damage during an attack, you are instead dealt the chosen faceup Damage card"

in short,

Critical damage does not have to go through shields to be considered critical damage

When critical damage is dealt, I Will Show You The Dark Side deals a face-up damage card INSTEAD

INSTEAD of losing a shield, you are dealt the chosen face-up damage card

example: "Backdraft" shoots at Corran Horn

without Kylo

1. Backdraft scores two hits and a crit
2. Corran Horn uses evade results to cancel the two hits
3. Corran Horn takes an uncanceled critical result and suffers 1 critical damage
4. Corran Horn loses a shield or, if he has no shields, is dealt a damage card face-up

with Kylo

1. Backdraft scores two hits and a crit
2. Corran Horn uses evade results to cancel the two hits
3. Corran Horn takes an uncanceled critical result and suffers 1 critical damage
4. Corran Horn loses a shield or, if he has no shields, is dealt a damage card face-up
5. INSTEAD, Corran Horn is dealt the chosen face-up damage card

Suck It Corran!

Not a Pilot Critical card, so Kylo can't do that to him.

probably the exact reason why Kylo is limited to Pilot tagged crits.

You'd see him in every build because he would literally 1shot any 2hull ships, and 2shot any 3hull.

By limiting him to Pilots, no double damage, so he can never completely 1shot someone, it will take at least 2 turns so you got some reaction buffer time.