....howd you get that out of my post?

By bypassing the card if stele is ruled that way so he does his ability as per normal rules, he doesnt magically go through shields. Condition "deals the card on this condition" instead of the usual effect. If stele's ability bypasses the card and it still sits there, nothing goes through shields as you literally just ignored the condition.

that is, IF he ends up ruled that way. I imagine he'd just get trumped by the condition and lose his ability for 1 crit

Kyle Ren, the new Chimp.

Kyle will show us the Dark Side.

I am curious who this Kyle Ren is and how he discovered the power of the Dark Side.

it's kyle katarn after he focused too much and inadvertently glimpsed the dark side

now instead of handing out eyeball tokens, he hands out blinded pilots

Makes sense, he isn't as bad a vader, he gets one crit through if you hit with a crit damage. Vader on the other hand just nukes it outright.

2 things: 1) assuming you mean crew Vader they actually don't interact sadly, as crew Vader happens after the attack and the condition only works on critical damage from the attack. 2) if Maarek works as I described above and bypasses the card sitting on the condition then it's pretty broken. He gets through 3 uncanceled crit results on a full health bwing and instead of it taking 1 face up and 2 shields it's dead. Replace bwing with any ship with shields and <= 3 hull. Sure it's possible he won't get that many crits but with something like 'a score to settle', Palpatine, and advanced targeting computer it's possible he'll be dropping 3 crits a shot pretty frequently and if he can break this condition to bypass shields every time he sends through an uncanceled crit that's insane.

I would think that if Maarek's ability interacts with this condition it wouldn't kick in until you are dealing the damage card which would make the condition go away.

I'm not 100% sure that Maarek will even interact with this ability since it might be the condition that is dealing the critical card and not Maarek's attack.

and no, Determination is still too crappy to warrant using as a counter

Why would determination be useless? Determination is THE only counter to Kylo Ren. When you are dealt a face up damage card with the pilot trait, instead discard it.

if Kylo becomes a normal thing i am totally getting a giant troll face sign to hold over my face as i show my opponent all my ships have Determination.

and no, Determination is still too crappy to warrant using as a counter

Why would determination be useless? Determination is THE only counter to Kylo Ren. When you are dealt a face up damage card with the pilot trait, instead discard it.

where did I say "useless"?

I said "crappy"

which is true

it's far too specific, situational and generally ineffective in every scenario except for Mr Ren, except for maybe on a decimator

so you build to counter him and lose effectiveness v everything else

I would think that if Maarek's ability interacts with this condition it wouldn't kick in until you are dealing the damage card which would make the condition go away.

I'm not 100% sure that Maarek will even interact with this ability since it might be the condition that is dealing the critical card and not Maarek's attack.

To the first point: that's certainly possible but from a rather strict as written approach it can be read as this:

Uncanceled crit -> condition card dealt faceup -> instead of condition card being dealt faceup draw 3 cards, pick one, assign faceup as normal. Due to the replacement and a very strict reading the end result from an uncanceled critical would be a faceup card on the target and the condition's critical sitting untouched.

To the second point I think it falls into the same questionable category of 'does Maarek pick his faceup crit from major explosion' but I don't really know.

I would think that if Maarek's ability interacts with this condition it wouldn't kick in until you are dealing the damage card which would make the condition go away.

I'm not 100% sure that Maarek will even interact with this ability since it might be the condition that is dealing the critical card and not Maarek's attack.

To the first point: that's certainly possible but from a rather strict as written approach it can be read as this:

Uncanceled crit -> condition card dealt faceup -> instead of condition card being dealt faceup draw 3 cards, pick one, assign faceup as normal. Due to the replacement and a very strict reading the end result from an uncanceled critical would be a faceup card on the target and the condition's critical sitting untouched.

To the second point I think it falls into the same questionable category of 'does Maarek pick his faceup crit from major explosion' but I don't really know.

Maarek's ability is triggered "when your attack deals a faceup damage card to the defender", which is not happening when STDS are involved. One critical damage from Maarek's attack is being intercepted and replaced by the condition's effect. It's a face-up damage card, and its happening during Maarek's attack, but it's not being dealt by Maarek's attack.

and no, Determination is still too crappy to warrant using as a counter

Why would determination be useless? Determination is THE only counter to Kylo Ren. When you are dealt a face up damage card with the pilot trait, instead discard it.

where did I say "useless"?

I said "crappy"

which is true

it's far too specific, situational and generally ineffective in every scenario except for Mr Ren, except for maybe on a decimator

so you build to counter him and lose effectiveness v everything else

Yes my bad.

I don't think its crappy. Think about a card that would counter Palpatine. Everyone would use it especially after seeing how it shaped the meta.

I think Determination will end up making folks not bother bringing Kylo and that isn't a bad thing.

Imps didn't need another power card at this point in time.

and no, Determination is still too crappy to warrant using as a counter

Why would determination be useless? Determination is THE only counter to Kylo Ren. When you are dealt a face up damage card with the pilot trait, instead discard it.

where did I say "useless"?

I said "crappy"

which is true

it's far too specific, situational and generally ineffective in every scenario except for Mr Ren, except for maybe on a decimator

so you build to counter him and lose effectiveness v everything else

Yes my bad.

I don't think its crappy. Think about a card that would counter Palpatine. Everyone would use it especially after seeing how it shaped the meta.

I think Determination will end up making folks not bother bringing Kylo and that isn't a bad thing.

Imps didn't need another power card at this point in time.

If my spending three points on Kylo crew or just paying the difference between him and a lower PS shuttle pilot is enough to make my opponents bring Determination on their best ships, I'd consider it points well spent.

and no, Determination is still too crappy to warrant using as a counter

Why would determination be useless? Determination is THE only counter to Kylo Ren. When you are dealt a face up damage card with the pilot trait, instead discard it.

where did I say "useless"?

I said "crappy"

which is true

it's far too specific, situational and generally ineffective in every scenario except for Mr Ren, except for maybe on a decimator

so you build to counter him and lose effectiveness v everything else

Yes my bad.

I don't think its crappy. Think about a card that would counter Palpatine. Everyone would use it especially after seeing how it shaped the meta.

I think Determination will end up making folks not bother bringing Kylo and that isn't a bad thing.

Imps didn't need another power card at this point in time.

If my spending three points on Kylo crew or just paying the difference between him and a lower PS shuttle pilot is enough to make my opponents bring Determination on their best ships, I'd consider it points well spent.

You missed the point. This will end up making some folks not bother bringing small ships with small hull values. If you are using your action for this then your attack may be less effective anyway.

Even putting palp and ren on Patrol leader will be already at 51 points. Not sure how much actual play this will get. There are only 2 blinded pilot cards in the deck anyway and spending palp on this would not be the best use of him.

Oh Goodness Gracious Me...

IF YOU GET A YOU TAKE A DAMAGE POINT TO SHIELDS OR HULL AS RELEVANT AND YOU ALSO ADD WHATEVER REN DECIDES TO SMACK YOU WITH FROM THE PILOT TRAIT CARDS... DONE!

Oh Goodness Gracious Me...

IF YOU GET A YOU TAKE A DAMAGE POINT TO SHIELDS OR HULL AS RELEVANT AND YOU ALSO ADD WHATEVER REN DECIDES TO SMACK YOU WITH FROM THE PILOT TRAIT CARDS... DONE!

Wrong. Card says "Instead" so you don't lose shield or hull in addition to the card. You replace the first crit that goes through with the pilot crit on the card assigned to the ship.

Oh Goodness Gracious Me...

IF YOU GET A YOU TAKE A DAMAGE POINT TO SHIELDS OR HULL AS RELEVANT AND YOU ALSO ADD WHATEVER REN DECIDES TO SMACK YOU WITH FROM THE PILOT TRAIT CARDS... DONE!

This is actually wrong regardless of if Maarek Stele gets silly or not. You take the Kylo card in place of hull or shield damage not in addition to it.

Oh Goodness Gracious Me...

IF YOU GET A YOU TAKE A DAMAGE POINT TO SHIELDS OR HULL AS RELEVANT AND YOU ALSO ADD WHATEVER REN DECIDES TO SMACK YOU WITH FROM THE PILOT TRAIT CARDS... DONE!

Wrong. Card says "Instead" so you don't lose shield or hull in addition to the card. You replace the first crit that goes through with the pilot crit on the card assigned to the ship.

SUFFERED CRIT DAMAGE...

suffered crit damage means they didnt evade the crit result. Suffered crit damage normally takes a shield/hull away like a hit does, but it also deals a card.

When you suffer a crit with kylo's card on there, you simply take the card instead of the usual effects.

INSTEAD just means you pick the additional effect... from the pilot traits.

INSTEAD just means you pick the additional effect... from the pilot traits.

The original post of this thread literally walks through how this card works and why.

I can never find your bad post image when I need it. You'll just have to get a smoking gun detective chimp instead.

This awesome picture doesn't feel much like punishment.

INSTEAD just means you pick the additional effect... from the pilot traits.

The original post of this thread literally walks through how this card works and why.

I can never find your bad post image when I need it. You'll just have to get a smoking gun detective chimp instead.

What I typed jives with that post which I read last night... so why are people on here still talking it to death.

I would think that if Maarek's ability interacts with this condition it wouldn't kick in until you are dealing the damage card which would make the condition go away.

I'm not 100% sure that Maarek will even interact with this ability since it might be the condition that is dealing the critical card and not Maarek's attack.

To the first point: that's certainly possible but from a rather strict as written approach it can be read as this:

Uncanceled crit -> condition card dealt faceup -> instead of condition card being dealt faceup draw 3 cards, pick one, assign faceup as normal. Due to the replacement and a very strict reading the end result from an uncanceled critical would be a faceup card on the target and the condition's critical sitting untouched.

To the second point I think it falls into the same questionable category of 'does Maarek pick his faceup crit from major explosion' but I don't really know.

I see what you're saying. However this ends up Maarek and Leebo should both end up working the same way though, right?

Makes sense. It's counter-intuitive at first because we're all used to critical damage being the same as taking a face-up card - but it's not.

Critical damage is always critical damage, it just only happens to (under normal circumstances) hurt us when we don't have a shield. But this isn't normal.

I see what you're saying. However this ends up Maarek and Leebo should both end up working the same way though, right?

I read the Leebo sequence as uncanceled crit -> condition faceup card -> draw 1 more card, pick either condition or drawn card, discard the other so the condition goes away regardless.

The only reason I think Maarek as written breaks this card abusively is the difference in wording between him and Leebo:

"When your attack deals a faceup damage card, instead draw 3 Damage cards, choose 1 to deal and discard the others"

Vs.

"When you are dealt a faceup Damage card, draw 1 additional Damage card, choose 1 to resolve, and discard the other."

So in my reading both hit their 'dealt faceup damage card' conditions the same but Maarek then draws and handles 3 distinct different cards (replacement) while Leebo draws 1 additional and picks between the extra and the Kylo card (additional effect).

It's all pretty soupy.

and no, Determination is still too crappy to warrant using as a counter

Why would determination be useless? Determination is THE only counter to Kylo Ren. When you are dealt a face up damage card with the pilot trait, instead discard it.

where did I say "useless"?

I said "crappy"

which is true

it's far too specific, situational and generally ineffective in every scenario except for Mr Ren, except for maybe on a decimator

so you build to counter him and lose effectiveness v everything else

Yes my bad.

I don't think its crappy. Think about a card that would counter Palpatine. Everyone would use it especially after seeing how it shaped the meta.

I think Determination will end up making folks not bother bringing Kylo and that isn't a bad thing.

Imps didn't need another power card at this point in time.

If my spending three points on Kylo crew or just paying the difference between him and a lower PS shuttle pilot is enough to make my opponents bring Determination on their best ships, I'd consider it points well spent.

You missed the point. This will end up making some folks not bother bringing small ships with small hull values. If you are using your action for this then your attack may be less effective anyway.

Even putting palp and ren on Patrol leader will be already at 51 points. Not sure how much actual play this will get. There are only 2 blinded pilot cards in the deck anyway and spending palp on this would not be the best use of him.

I was responding to your statement:

I think Determination will end up making folks not bother bringing Kylo and that isn't a bad thing.

If bringing Kylo Ren causes people to bring Determination, I'm going to keep bringing Kylo Ren to make sure that people keep bringing Determination. I'd be happy to have wasted points on a Kylo Ren that I don't use to have opponents bringing Determination instead of whatever EPT they'd normally want to put on the ship. While the pilot version of Kylo Ren's ability is a mandatory effect, actually assigning a damage card to the condition is optional.

This awesome picture doesn't feel much like punishment.

If it was not fun I would not take the time to make all of these cute little pictures that I do.

Boss is extra happy when my Star Peeps like these pictures too!