Action: Do the thing on the reverse side of this card

Reverse Side: Do the things, when done, flip back over so you can do the things again later.

Gollygeewillikers, that was tough!

It's not about having enough space on the card. Conditions do something that essentially puts an effect on the target ship in the same way that an upgrade or a damage card would.

Does Agent Kallus not work or something?

Hey, look. We just got a dual sided card that kicks ass... sorry gluteus, and now instead of expanding on that idea we're straight on to the next thing? I understand that X-Wing needs to stay fresh, but it's like a Macaroni Murderlady. How many crappy noodles can you glue on the construction paper until it's not a Macaroni Murderlady anymore and just a pile of gluey ******' noodles?

Action: Do the thing on the reverse side of this card

Reverse Side: Do the things, when done, flip back over so you can do the things again later.

Gollygeewillikers, that was tough!

It's not about having enough space on the card. Conditions do something that essentially puts an effect on the target ship in the same way that an upgrade or a damage card would.

Does Agent Kallus not work or something?

Hey, look. We just got a dual sided card that kicks ass... sorry gluteus, and now instead of expanding on that idea we're straight on to the next thing? I understand that X-Wing needs to stay fresh, but it's like a Macaroni Murderlady. How many crappy noodles can you glue on the construction paper until it's not a Macaroni Murderlady anymore and just a pile of gluey ****** noodles?

Conditions do Agent Kallus, but better. Hell, the scum one even appears to be agent kallus on attacks. The reason they're better is that Kallus has no reminder of his effect that comes in the game. Sure you can use a lego minifigure or a 3rd party token, but conditions are a better way of doing these type of effects.

Action: Do the thing on the reverse side of this card

Reverse Side: Do the things, when done, flip back over so you can do the things again later.

Gollygeewillikers, that was tough!

It's not about having enough space on the card. Conditions do something that essentially puts an effect on the target ship in the same way that an upgrade or a damage card would.

Does Agent Kallus not work or something?

Hey, look. We just got a dual sided card that kicks ass... sorry gluteus, and now instead of expanding on that idea we're straight on to the next thing? I understand that X-Wing needs to stay fresh, but it's like a Macaroni Murderlady. How many crappy noodles can you glue on the construction paper until it's not a Macaroni Murderlady anymore and just a pile of gluey ****** noodles?

Conditions do Agent Kallus, but better. Hell, the scum one even appears to be agent kallus on attacks. The reason they're better is that Kallus has no reminder of his effect that comes in the game. Sure you can use a lego minifigure or a 3rd party token, but conditions are a better way of doing these type of effects.

Cards like Countermeasures and the various ACTION EPT's don't have tokens for their effects either.

I actually don't mind this game being a huge pile of tokens because I have Plano organizers peace be upon him.

Action: Do the thing on the reverse side of this card

Reverse Side: Do the things, when done, flip back over so you can do the things again later.

Gollygeewillikers, that was tough!

It's not about having enough space on the card. Conditions do something that essentially puts an effect on the target ship in the same way that an upgrade or a damage card would.

Does Agent Kallus not work or something?

Everyone I've played that uses Kallus also uses a token for him. On top of that, we've only seen the EPT which has an effect similar to Kallus. We haven't seen the full text of the condition yet. It appears to grant some sort of bonus to the ship it gets assigned to.

Well like they say, many stones will soon a wall make. No one says that I just made it up.

I spent wasted most of my life not playing X-Wing because the spread of tokens looked ridiculous. I thought, wow that's a lot of tokens for only a few minis. And so I didn't get into it. But now I'm in and I love it and I see the game going in a direction I don't like, so it bothers me a lot. Is this going to be another GW type escapade where I spend years and wages getting into the hobby only to have the rug pulled out from under me?

One really big problem we have in X-Wing is keeping track of things like damage and critical effects. Can't even tell you how many games I've lost because someone was moving damage around on ships, or simply ignoring their crits. Add another card to the pile and I can only imagine the crap people will try to pull. No No! You showed Biggs the Dark side, not Poe! See the card is here!

Agent Kallus works just fine, you can even put his card on the ship he targets, or use a token. He is an upgrade card that does the exact same thing as condition cards do. Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining man! Condition cards aren't some snazzy new idea, they're just overly clunky upgrade cards that exist because the new designers couldn't be bothered to actually come up with a new mechanic. It's just a big fat unwieldy upgrade card, but they're passing them off as some cool new feature. Dudes, they're just upgrade cards!

Or if you luck out and throw all your pilot cards as face downs on a decimator or something.

... Hey, you COULD.

Shoot. That means I would actually need to use the damage deck for non-crits. We just usually mark hull damage with tokens and draw cards for crits only.

You really shouldnt do that. That can really mess with your possible damage, and if a card ever forces you to flip damage from damage to crit or vice versa then it can even be worse.

In HOTAC campaign yeah that makes sense, but not in a real game, not even in epic.

You do not need cards to represent face-down damage cards that are completely unknown. If a "card" would be known then it would be replaced with one from the DD and it would then remain even if turned face-down again.

Although replacing unknown, face-down damage cards with some other tokens doesn't change anything except for the rate of revealing the DD it is almost never worth the bother. After all you'd have to replace all of those unknown cards with SOMETHING so why not just use the cards to begin with.

Well like they say, many stones will soon a wall make. No one says that I just made it up.

I spent wasted most of my life not playing X-Wing because the spread of tokens looked ridiculous. I thought, wow that's a lot of tokens for only a few minis. And so I didn't get into it. But now I'm in and I love it and I see the game going in a direction I don't like, so it bothers me a lot. Is this going to be another GW type escapade where I spend years and wages getting into the hobby only to have the rug pulled out from under me?

One really big problem we have in X-Wing is keeping track of things like damage and critical effects. Can't even tell you how many games I've lost because someone was moving damage around on ships, or simply ignoring their crits. Add another card to the pile and I can only imagine the crap people will try to pull. No No! You showed Biggs the Dark side, not Poe! See the card is here!

Agent Kallus works just fine, you can even put his card on the ship he targets, or use a token. He is an upgrade card that does the exact same thing as condition cards do. Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining man! Condition cards aren't some snazzy new idea, they're just overly clunky upgrade cards that exist because the new designers couldn't be bothered to actually come up with a new mechanic. It's just a big fat unwieldy upgrade card, but they're passing them off as some cool new feature. Dudes, they're just upgrade cards!

At this point, is it fair to call Alex and Frank new designers? I haven't heard either has been moved off of X-wing.

okay, finally got an excause to snag this picture

guys, calling something as simple as conditions "mechanics creep" is bull

because I flew this list today

so I think we can handle keeping some reference cards around

fickle...

organize that **** man! lol!

I dunno fellas I think my point still stands. Condition Cards aren't anything new or shiny. These are just overly wordy upgrade cards that someone decided to rename. Probably so as to enjoy the chaos that ensued. It's the sort of thing I'd do if I were given any sort of responsibility or power.

I mean, the proof is right there. Agent Kallus is essentially a Condition Card, he inflicts a parameter on a chosen ship while removing one on himself. They just took this card and extrapolated on the idea a bit, albeit in a very clunky and haphazard way. I'm willing to bet that someone could very easily re-write these new Conditions as EPTs or even Titles and it would have no negative impact on the core idea.

Although, it's here now and there is no FAQ or Errata that can change it now so...

Mind you, this could be the card only expansion opportunity some were demanding. I mean, how is Luke going to keep up with Master Ren now? Seems to me the only way to rectify the strange paradox created by this new concept is to give everyone a clunky obtrusive Condition Card! I mean why shouldn't Darth Vader be able to Force Choke a ***** from range 3? Didn't Luke blow up a Death Star with 2 measly Protorps? It's like potting Wamp Rats baby, no way! Wedge? Wedge ought to be able to call out all the good shots his wingmates make right? Hey, Lando, good shooting buddy! Thanks Wedge, Imma shoot another one now!

Or am I to believe Plunkar Butts is such a hot shot he deserves more cards than Jan "The Babe" Ors?

More like, the realization that if they want more abilities like Kallus, they might want to have a better way to remind everyone about the various effects. And in the process, hit on some interesting ways to take the concept. "I Will Show You the Dark Side" is very, very different than Kallus.

It's like the party bus. The Dengar, Zuckuss, and 4-LOM crew aren't so difficult to keep track of individually. But god ****, having them all on one ship, and having to constantly remind yourself about their various effects can get exhausting.

And I think you would have a tough time putting "I Will Show You the Dark Side" on either the ship card or the crew card without very, very tiny text.

More like, the realization that if they want more abilities like Kallus, they might want to have a better way to remind everyone about the various effects. And in the process, hit on some interesting ways to take the concept. "I Will Show You the Dark Side" is very, very different than Kallus.

It's like the party bus. The Dengar, Zuckuss, and 4-LOM crew aren't so difficult to keep track of individually. But god ****, having them all on one ship, and having to constantly remind yourself about their various effects can get exhausting.

And I think you would have a tough time putting "I Will Show You the Dark Side" on either the ship card or the crew card without very, very tiny text.

Side A: Action: Assign a Dark Side token to an enemy ship at range 1 -3, then flip this card to Side B and resolve it.

Side B: When you reveal Side B search the opposing players damage deck for a damage card with the Pilot header then shuffle their deck. Place the chosen card face-up on top of this one. When you deal a critical damage to the affected ship you may assign the chosen damage card to that ship instead of dealing the critical damage. If you do, you must flip this card over and remove the Dark Side token.

Bam. Done.

Indeed. The idea of shield piercing crew hits is scary.

As a plus side, this makes Determination rather tempting for a 'tough' ship with a spare EPT.

Being able to trigger blinded pilot or damaged cockpit easily is nasty - especially to arc dodgers. And you can do it pretty easily with Kylo Ren's own ship - Darth Vader on board can give you that critical automatically. I'd trade two shields for a damaged cockpit critical on someone straight through their shields.

More like, the realization that if they want more abilities like Kallus, they might want to have a better way to remind everyone about the various effects. And in the process, hit on some interesting ways to take the concept. "I Will Show You the Dark Side" is very, very different than Kallus.

It's like the party bus. The Dengar, Zuckuss, and 4-LOM crew aren't so difficult to keep track of individually. But god ****, having them all on one ship, and having to constantly remind yourself about their various effects can get exhausting.

And I think you would have a tough time putting "I Will Show You the Dark Side" on either the ship card or the crew card without very, very tiny text.

Side A: Action: Assign a Dark Side token to an enemy ship at range 1 -3, then flip this card to Side B and resolve it.

Side B: When you reveal Side B search the opposing players damage deck for a damage card with the Pilot header then shuffle their deck. Place the chosen card face-up on top of this one. When you deal a critical damage to the affected ship you may assign the chosen damage card to that ship instead of dealing the critical damage. If you do, you must flip this card over and remove the Dark Side token.

Bam. Done.

I'm really not seeing how that's any better than having a Condition card for the same effect.

Like others have said, it's not like we don't already have a similar situation with a lot of upgrades/abilities now. Dropping a Conner Net is a bit of a cross-referencing nightmare if you have to explain it to people who haven't faced it before. Also, introducing a new mechanic can be extremely useful because it allows you to add new abilities to the game using an existing mechanic instead of inventing a whole bunch of new and slightly different ways to do the same thing. Agent Kallus is actually a good example of this. He'd have been better off as a Condition but they didn't exist at the time so we have something that's a Condition in all but name.

It's just a place to put rules that don't fit on cards. Nothing really different here, think of them like specific rules reminder cards such as slam and bombs.