So saw what appears to be a Rebel TIE Fighter squadron with 1 speed fewer and swarm. Now it is kind of hard to see the point value but with lower stats should they be lower point value than a TIE Fighter swarm squadron? Furthermore should any squadron cost be lower than 8 points? I don't think so.

Which bring us back to the 3 hit points the same as a TIE Fighter, taking a look at the A-wing it has 4 hit points. So I am thinking shouldn't it be a 3 speed 4 hit points squadron instead of a 3 speed 3 hitpoints squadron? I don't think the black anti-ship die will make up for the lower speed but that's just my opinion.

Im guessing it will either have a better dice pool than the TIE or it will be at 7 points. The only thing I do not like about the Z-95 is that I need to buy 5 packs of them to get a massive swarm going

I totally agree on that, Z-95 Headhunters is fluff wise with shields and are just as durable if not stronger than an A-wing, and since it is the predecessor of the X-wing it should be more closer to it in hull strength with 4 than it is with 3.

so I would more prefer it had stats as Armada Shipyards has made it.

https://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/29/z-95-headhunter-starfighter-2/

I think either TIE fighter strength attack dice and 7 points or a red or black anti-ship dice and 8 points. Only having 2 guns compared to the xwing's 4 I think it is unlikely to get 4 blue anti squadron dice.

I think either TIE fighter strength attack dice and 7 points or a red or black anti-ship dice and 8 points. Only having 2 guns compared to the xwing's 4 I think it is unlikely to get 4 blue anti squadron dice.

To be honest I don't think any squadron should be cheaper than TIE Fighters. I expect black anti ship due to missiles but does that make up for the lack of speed and same hit points?

I totally agree on that, Z-95 Headhunters is fluff wise with shields and are just as durable if not stronger than an A-wing, and since it is the predecessor of the X-wing it should be more closer to it in hull strength with 4 than it is with 3.

so I would more prefer it had stats as Armada Shipyards has made it.

https://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/29/z-95-headhunter-starfighter-2/

Z-95:

Shields 20 RBD

Hull 14 Ru

Maneuverability 86

A-Wing (RZ-1)

I totally agree on that, Z-95 Headhunters is fluff wise with shields and are just as durable if not stronger than an A-wing, and since it is the predecessor of the X-wing it should be more closer to it in hull strength with 4 than it is with 3.

so I would more prefer it had stats as Armada Shipyards has made it.

https://armadashipyards.com/2015/08/29/z-95-headhunter-starfighter-2/

Z-95:

Shields 20 RBD

Hull 14 Ru

Maneuverability 86

A-Wing (RZ-1)

Shields 50 RBD

Hull 14 Ru

Maneuverability 96

TIE-Fighter

Shields None

Hull 9 Ru

Maneuverability 96

of all these the Z-95 is really the one that is easiest to shot down.

What I would have liked to see would be a Z-95 without swarm, but that is cheaper to activate (get one z-95 as a free activation for each other activation or 2 Z-95 for one....) as they were never intended as swarm craft like the TIEs.

What I would

It can still take more punishment than a TIE, but yah, if you throw m aneuverability into the equation of "staying alive" I can see your point.

Could you add the X-wing stats to compare with?

Its m aneuverability is less than the TIE and A-wing, but then its shields and hull must be so much stronger, to justify for it to be hull 5 .

I always thought of Swarm as representing the Imperial pilots superior training in co-ordinated squadron tactics.

Maybe the game-designers see squadron-stands as representating varying numbers of fighters, and if you are a cheap and numerous fighter, you get Swarm to represent that there is more of you (than squadrons with more expensive hyperdrive-capable strike-craft)?

When I used some Z-95s in an "Empire v Pirate-fleet" armada battle, I gave them 3 Strength, Speed 4 and, I think, attack-dice Blue x 2.

Might drop swarm for my own battles, but shall see. Main thing is, it great to see the Z-95 in the game.

It can still take more punishment than a TIE, but yah, if you throw m aneuverability into the equation of "staying alive" I can see your point.

Could you add the X-wing stats to compare with?

Its m aneuverability is less than the TIE and A-wing, but then its shields and hull must be so much stronger, to justify for it to be hull 5 .

It can still take more punishment than a TIE, but yah, if you throw m aneuverability into the equation of "staying alive" I can see your point.

Could you add the X-wing stats to compare with?

Its m aneuverability is less than the TIE and A-wing, but then its shields and hull must be so much stronger, to justify for it to be hull 5 .

Z-95

Shields 20 RBD

Hull 14 Ru

Maneuverability 86

A-Wing (RZ-1)

Shields 50 RBD

Hull 14 Ru

Maneuverability 96

X-Wing (T-65)

Shields 50 RBD

Hull 20 Ru

Maneuverability 75

TIE-Fighter

Shields None

Hull 9 Ru

Maneuverability 96

TIE-Bomber

Shields None

Hull 28 Ru

Maneuverability 86

Xg-1 Assualt Gunboat

Shields 100

Hull 28 Ru

Maneuverability 78

I am gonna say they are 8 swapping blue SB for a black.

With the Z-95 I was expecting a weaker version of the X-Wing for a significant points break. I was thinking of a stat line along the lines of speed 3, hull 4, 3 blue anti-squadron dice, a black anti-ship die and the escort keyword. I'm not really sure about them getting swarm as that always struck me as a very Imperial ability i.e. individual pilots lives don't matter, just swamp the enemy in warm bodies which seems at odd with the way the Rebels operate (they don't have the numbers to support that way of thinking). The Headhunter struck me as a potential cheap escort fighter for Rebel players, FFG seems to have taken them in a different direction but I'm still interested to see how they'll play out when wave five arrives.

My guess is that it'll be the same points as a standard tie. We know that it has identical hull, and I'm guessing identical anti-squadron dice, but I think it will have a lower speed of 3 and trade a black anti-ship dice for blue. Slightly slower, but slightly better as a back-up bomber.

My guess is that it'll be the same points as a standard tie. We know that it has identical hull, and I'm guessing identical anti-squadron dice, but I think it will have a lower speed of 3 and trade a black anti-ship dice for blue. Slightly slower, but slightly better as a back-up bomber.

Only without the Bomber ability. Sure black is better than blue anti-ship attack.but it doesn't match up with red bomber.

With the Z-95 I was expecting a weaker version of the X-Wing for a significant points break. I was thinking of a stat line along the lines of speed 3, hull 4, 3 blue anti-squadron dice, a black anti-ship die and the escort keyword. I'm not really sure about them getting swarm as that always struck me as a very Imperial ability i.e. individual pilots lives don't matter, just swamp the enemy in warm bodies which seems at odd with the way the Rebels operate (they don't have the numbers to support that way of thinking). The Headhunter struck me as a potential cheap escort fighter for Rebel players, FFG seems to have taken them in a different direction but I'm still interested to see how they'll play out when wave five arrives.

Yeah I never considered Z-95s as swarm ships even in X-wing. They were more of a point filler ship that allows you to squeeze that 4th ship in a 100 point build. I expected Escort instead of Swarm, but I sort of understand keeping it closer to the TIE Fightter as the rebels counterpart. But I think if the points are even TIE Fighters will be better than Z-95s in all rolls. Z-95 won't be much better as an antiship squadron you might as well not count it.

1st xwing should be speed 4. So i see z95 as speed 3, hull 4, 3 blue as and 1 red ot blue ship dice.

Wait, am I understanding right? Are you guys saying you think red > blue for anti-ship? I'll take a blue AS over a red any day, bomber or not. Same average damage, more reliable, can't be mitigated by brace, harder to mitigate with redirect.

If this thing is the same price as a TIE for 3 blue AA and 1 red AS, I will never use it. That's trash.

1st xwing should be speed 4. So i see z95 as speed 3, hull 4, 3 blue as and 1 red ot blue ship dice.

Wait, am I understanding right? Are you guys saying you think red > blue for anti-ship? I'll take a blue AS over a red any day, bomber or not. Same average damage, more reliable, can't be mitigated by brace, harder to mitigate with redirect.

If this thing is the same price as a TIE for 3 blue AA and 1 red AS, I will never use it. That's trash.

I would rather have my opponent spend their defense token on my Squadron attacks than on my ship attacks.

I would love for them to brace our redirect a double hit.

Wait, am I understanding right? Are you guys saying you think red > blue for anti-ship? I'll take a blue AS over a red any day, bomber or not. Same average damage, more reliable, can't be mitigated by brace, harder to mitigate with redirect.

If this thing is the same price as a TIE for 3 blue AA and 1 red AS, I will never use it. That's trash.

Same here. Blue bomber dice is preferable to Red.

Headhunters aren't bombers, though.

I also expect them to have black battery armament and be 8 or 9 points. In X-wing the Z's have the same primary attack as TIE fighters and A-wings, with the same missile upgrade options as an A-wing. By contrast X-wings have a greater primary attack and have torpedo upgrade options. I assume this translates into armada as:

missiles = black battery non-bomber

torps = bombers with various dice colors

Then things like counter are added to represent highly maneuverable dogfighters (A's, Interceptors, Aggressors) or turrets (YT1300, Decimator). Its not a perfect fit, but its close.

My guess is that it'll be the same points as a standard tie. We know that it has identical hull, and I'm guessing identical anti-squadron dice, but I think it will have a lower speed of 3 and trade a black anti-ship dice for blue. Slightly slower, but slightly better as a back-up bomber.

Only without the Bomber ability. Sure black is better than blue anti-ship attack.but it doesn't match up with red bomber.

That's what I meant. Red dice are obviously better with the Bomber keyword, but without it a black dice has a 3/4 chance of a single hit, where red have a 1/4 chance of a single hit and a 1/8 chance of a double.

I actually think access to toryn farr and swarm at a low buy in migt make these guys a sleeper.

Wait, am I understanding right? Are you guys saying you think red > blue for anti-ship? I'll take a blue AS over a red any day, bomber or not. Same average damage, more reliable, can't be mitigated by brace, harder to mitigate with redirect.

If this thing is the same price as a TIE for 3 blue AA and 1 red AS, I will never use it. That's trash.

I would rather have my opponent spend their defense token on my Squadron attacks than on my ship attacks.

I would love for them to brace our redirect a double hit.

Obviously, but that's not the point. The point is that they have the option to do so. More reliable smaller attacks are more desirable than inconsistent bigger attacks that average the same damage.

Blues hit more reliably than reds and are harder to mitigate.

To each his own, but for me, the scant possibility of a double that can be mitigated if need be is not at all worth what you're losing for it.

I actually think access to toryn farr and swarm at a low buy in migt make these guys a sleeper.

Plus it looks like the Headhunter Ace also allows rerolls. That could make swarmy squadrons with Torynn pretty decent.

If we go by Empire at War logic, which I do very often for Armada since the ships cross over so much, the Headhunters were pretty lousy. Also when you consider the canon they are Clone Wars era fighters so technically even if retrofitted they shouldn't be that superior to a Tie Fighter.

Let us also consider Headhunters were also developed at the same time as ARC-170's and because the latter seemed to retain prevalence throughout the war we can perhaps assume that headhunters were not as reliable. Although it's possible head hunters were so advanced at the time of the clone wars only few saw production and the ARC-170 was just easier to mass produce similar to the real life WW2 Sherman Tank.

Now I wonder if we'll see rebel ARC-170 squadrons as they are doing for X-Wing?