Necromancy!

The Victory's placement in current canon is odd. It is mentioned only one time, in the Tarkin novel, with no further description. However the Strikefast, originally a Victory-Star Destroyer that discovered Thrawn, was remade into a Venator... by direction of the Story Group.

So... the absence of the Victory is kind of glaring.

1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

Necromancy!

The Victory's placement in current canon is odd. It is mentioned only one time, in the Tarkin novel, with no further description. However the Strikefast, originally a Victory-Star Destroyer that discovered Thrawn, was remade into a Venator... by direction of the Story Group.

So... the absence of the Victory is kind of glaring.

I agree that it is odd....plus I like to know why Strikefast was changed. Is it their way of trying to phase out the Victory? I think if they were going be serious about the Victory, I believe it would have appeared already in Rebels or at the end of Clone Wars.

As for the Raider, with it appearing in Battlefront 2 and in the Thrawn book...that would be canon to me.

From a visual storytelling standpoint, the Victory looks too much like an ISD.

In a movie or show most would see it and just think "there's another Star Destroyer". Pointing out that it is a smaller, less-cool Star Destroyer would only serve to reduce whatever narrative threat it was supposed to impose.

There are ways to go about it, but would Disney find it worthwhile to go through those story gymnastics for another pizza ship?

5 minutes ago, Democratus said:

From a visual storytelling standpoint, the Victory looks too much like an ISD.

In a movie or show most would see it and just think "there's another Star Destroyer". Pointing out that it is a smaller, less-cool Star Destroyer would only serve to reduce whatever narrative threat it was supposed to impose.

There are ways to go about it, but would Disney find it worthwhile to go through those story gymnastics for another pizza ship?

I think they will probably end up introducing it as a Victory-Class Heavy Cruiser, with more torpedo-oriented armament in Rebels

2 minutes ago, Visovics said:

I think they will probably end up introducing it as a Victory-Class Heavy Cruiser, with more torpedo-oriented armament in Rebels

When the Rebels are already facing fleets of ISDs, what would be the narrative point of introducing the VSD?

Just now, Democratus said:

When the Rebels are already facing fleets of ISDs, what would be the narrative point of introducing the VSD?

But now the Rebellion is one formed group, before they were using ISDs to stop the growth of insurgent groups, now they are much bigger and harder to take down in the same way. For this they may end up having specialized missions where it is better to have the VSD rather than the ISD, like a base assault without troops, only a few VSDs carrying TIE bombers and launching torpedoes at the base from their unique opening sides

10 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

... But that money would feed my family for a Month...

Ok dras, you can still collect 200$

1 hour ago, idiewell said:

Ok dras, you can still collect 200$

As long as you pass 'Go'.

2 hours ago, Visovics said:

I think they will probably end up introducing it as a Victory-Class Heavy Cruiser, with more torpedo-oriented armament in Rebels

What reason would the Rebels production team have for making a Victory-Class model?

I've thought about it. The reason we have the Arquitens is because the script probably called for a light imperial combat ship different from the transport Gozanti. The Rebels team spruced up the Clone-wars Arquitens and now we have the Imperial light cruiser. The Interdictor was obviously there to make a statement, and the Quasar Fire needed to be a big imperial ship that wasn't anything like an Imperial Star Destroyer, so why not a QF?

If the Rebels production team has a story reason to introduce an old imperial cruiser for story purposes, I feel they are even more likely to pull up a Venator or Acclaimator- screen-cannon ships- than depict the Victory. Part of the reason is because they must have access to the clone wars cartoon models for editing (which is where the pelta came from), and people are more familiar with those two classes from Clone Wars than the legends-only VSD.

20 hours ago, Norsehound said:

Necromancy!

The Victory's placement in current canon is odd. It is mentioned only one time, in the Tarkin novel, with no further description. However the Strikefast, originally a Victory-Star Destroyer that discovered Thrawn, was remade into a Venator... by direction of the Story Group.

So... the absence of the Victory is kind of glaring.

I agree completely. It is extremely weird to say, "this ship existed" and then never see it. The Victory was built towards the very end of the clone wars, but didnt see action until after the clone wars. This is because the republic didnt expect a sudden and instant end to the war, the conflect was projected to continue for more years (and would have if the leader of both sides wasnt the same person, pulling strings to orcistrate his rise to power) so with no apparent end to the war in sight, scientist continued to develope new ships for the war effort. The victory is one such ship that fits into this catagory, bearly missing action. That being said, the ship was built and used by the Empire until it was phased out and replaced by the superier Imperial Star Destroyer, which we know occured sometime around ANH timeline, since no Victorys existed in ANH.

Put that all together and the best time for the Lucas Film story group to make the Victory appear on screen would have been during the beginning and middle chapters of Rebels, since that is the time frame it should have still been operating in, before shortly being phased out. Truly LFSG missed an oppertunity there, as now it wouldnt make sense to introduce the ship this close to ANH, because if it is still in use now, it would have been in use during earlier episodes, so why didnt we see it already??? It would be really weird to see it for the first time just once or twice just before its been replaced. With this I predict the Victory will never be on screen. I feel very sad for the Victory.

I think Lucas Arts story group make a mistake. The first third of the Rebels Animated TVseries should have had no imperial class, only victory class; and then the middle third, both ships; and the last third, only the imperial. That would have been a cool way to give the victory its true cannon appearence as more than a mere reference, and show it being phased out in favor of superior technology

27 minutes ago, OtakuModeEngage said:

... until it was phased out and replaced by the superier Imperial Star Destroyer, which we know occured sometime around ANH timeline, since no Victorys existed in ANH.

Caveat lector!

It's true that the ISD was superior (as we've all experienced), however, it should also be considered that ISDs would be a lot more costly for the Empire to produce, and they have a very large galaxy to patrol.

What we see of the Empire in ANH (& etc.) are the ships under the command of Darth Vader, who, as we know, has some pull with the Emperor. We don't see the fleets of every Moff put in charge of the outskirts of the galaxy. I imagine that VSDs would be pretty excellent all-purpose platforms for any budget-conscious Moff on the Outer Rim.

10 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Caveat lector!

It's true that the ISD was superior (as we've all experienced), however, it should also be considered that ISDs would be a lot more costly for the Empire to produce, and they have a very large galaxy to patrol.

What we see of the Empire in ANH (& etc.) are the ships under the command of Darth Vader, who, as we know, has some pull with the Emperor. We don't see the fleets of every Moff put in charge of the outskirts of the galaxy. I imagine that VSDs would be pretty excellent all-purpose platforms for any budget-conscious Moff on the Outer Rim.

While i get what you're saying, if the Victory wasnt phased out, and is still in use, why didnt we see it at all in Rebels, when Grand Admiral Thrawn, Grand Moth Tarken, and many other commanders of less prominante rank and status(who would fit the budget you discribe), would have used it for either strategic or economic reasons? The fact that -of the many numberous commanders weve seen on screen- none of them has had a victory under their command, makes me feel that it has already been phased out.

16 minutes ago, OtakuModeEngage said:

While i get what you're saying, if the Victory wasnt phased out, and is still in use, why didnt we see it at all in Rebels, when Grand Admiral Thrawn, Grand Moth Tarken, and many other commanders of less prominante rank and status(who would fit the budget you discribe), would have used it for either strategic or economic reasons? The fact that -of the many numberous commanders weve seen on screen- none of them has had a victory under their command, makes me feel that it has already been phased out.

You see two particular fleets - the 5th Fleet and the 7th Fleet.

5th. (Konstantine)

7th. (Thrawn)

And Tarkin's Personal Star Destroyer.

These are Admirals that are pretty high on the political as well as rank chain... ALWAYS get the best first.

Pretty sure that Victories would feature prominently in like, the 223rd Fleet, and the 701st Fleet, for example...

13 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

You see two particular fleets - the 5th Fleet and the 7th Fleet.

5th. (Konstantine)

7th. (Thrawn)

And Tarkin's Personal Star Destroyer.

These are Admirals that are pretty high on the political as well as rank chain... ALWAYS get the best first.

Pretty sure that Victories would feature prominently in like, the 223rd Fleet, and the 701st Fleet, for example...

Hmmm, but while Thrawn is definitly prominant and high ranking, I feel he is not the type of Admiral to disregard a ship simply due to its age, I feel of it was still in use, he would have used it strategically.

2 minutes ago, OtakuModeEngage said:

Hmmm, but while Thrawn is definitly prominant and high ranking, I feel he is not the type of Admiral to disregard a ship simply due to its age, I feel of it was still in use, he would have used it strategically.

Unless he could get more out of the best... There's one thing being practical when you can, there's another to turn down something better when the better is offered.

The absence of Vic's in rebels (and a new hope) certainly CAN be explained, but the show was practically custom designed to be a platform for including them, the fact that they didn't is noteworthy.

1 minute ago, Forgottenlore said:

The absence of Vic's in rebels (and a new hope) certainly CAN be explained, but the show was practically custom designed to be a platform for including them, the fact that they didn't is noteworthy.

There's always YoungHanSolo

Rebels could have avoided it on virtue of the fact that they were (for the most part) still looking for the brand recognition of Star Destroyer.

9 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

There's always YoungHanSolo

Rebels could have avoided it on virtue of the fact that they were (for the most part) still looking for the brand recognition of Star Destroyer.

I doubt the casual viewer would see a victory star destroyer and notice the difference between it and a imperial class. Star destroyers are strickingly similar, so brand recognition would have remained cemented. But yes, i thought of young han solo too, though i have my doubts; here's hopping.

19 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Rebels could have avoided it on virtue of the fact that they were (for the most part) still looking for the brand recognition of Star Destroyer.

As has been pointed out, there isn't much difference visually between the two unless you know what your looking for, so the Vic would have achieved that goal just as well.

Regardless, it wasn't done. As you say, a film set 10-15 years before ANH could still include them and it would just make the introduction of the ISD a bit earlier than maybe we are used to. I'm not hopeful, however. The film producers seem radically unwilling to draw from non-film based sources for designs, preferring to create all new ships or reuse things that already appeared in films.

Just now, Forgottenlore said:

As has been pointed out, there isn't much difference visually between the two unless you know what your looking for, so the Vic would have achieved that goal just as well.

Regardless, it wasn't done. As you say, a film set 10-15 years before ANH could still include them and it would just make the introduction of the ISD a bit earlier than maybe we are used to. I'm not hopeful, however. The film producers seem radically unwilling to draw from non-film based sources for designs, preferring to create all new ships or reuse things that already appeared in films.

As it was, I'm pretty sure if Armada was being launched right now instead of a couple of years ago - we'd have a very different Core Set.

20 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

As has been pointed out, there isn't much difference visually between the two unless you know what your looking for, so the Vic would have achieved that goal just as well.

Regardless, it wasn't done. As you say, a film set 10-15 years before ANH could still include them and it would just make the introduction of the ISD a bit earlier than maybe we are used to. I'm not hopeful, however. The film producers seem radically unwilling to draw from non-film based sources for designs, preferring to create all new ships or reuse things that already appeared in films.

Thats not entirely true, Rebels has pulled many elements from EU into new cannon. Rogue one also added a few EU references as well as reused references from Rebels.

Rebels isn't a film.

Your right though that R1 included stuff from rebels, but what EU things were there? (And I was speaking mostly about ships).

9 minutes ago, Forgottenlore said:

Rebels isn't a film.

Your right though that R1 included stuff from rebels, but what EU things were there? (And I was speaking mostly about ships).

Hmm, ships are harder, Darth Vader's castle, Casian Andor's appearence and clothing looking a lot like Kyle Katarn... there's a lot more i dont remember. But if we're talking ships only, and only from live action films, I think you might be right.

At any rate, i dont feel the Victory has much chance of seeing the big screen. Though ill keep my fingers crossed for young han solo.

I think I've lost track what point exactly we're discussing.