I'm a pretty big Star Wars nerd, yet had never heard of the Misthunter, Punishing One, Hounds Tooth, K Wing, E Wing, TIE Punishingest, etc. We get all these ships that the overwhelming majority of people have never heard of, and no one bats an eyelid, but we get the quadjumper, a ship that has actually been seen on the screen in a Star Wars movie, and everyone loses their minds?What's up with that?

The ship feels...empty to me.

I can't speak for the other people,but here's my issue with that. When you get a ship with a rich EU presence, even if you haven't heard of it, you can go on the internet and you can find plenty of infomration, stories and characters connected to the ship. When you get a ship like Quadjumper, all the info available boils down to 'it's a tug' and the TFA scene.

The ship feels...empty to me.

Empty Shmempty. It's new. I'm sure the Misthunter and Punishing One had little to no back-story in 1980 either. Let's check back in in 2052 and see if the Quadjumper has some history then.

And besides, if we go on canon sources, then the Misthunter and Punishing One and K Wing and E Wing and all the other EU ships, well, they don't actually exist in Star Wars. To my mind, any amount of canon source, no matter how small, over-rules any amount of legends source, no matter how much of it there is. Canon is trumps for me, and probably for a lot of people.

I'm a pretty big Star Wars nerd, yet had never heard of the Misthunter, Punishing One, Hounds Tooth, K Wing, E Wing, TIE Punishingest, etc. We get all these ships that the overwhelming majority of people have never heard of, and no one bats an eyelid, but we get the quadjumper, a ship that has actually been seen on the screen in a Star Wars movie, and everyone loses their minds?What's up with that?

I can't speak for the other people,but here's my issue with that. When you get a ship with a rich EU presence, even if you haven't heard of it, you can go on the internet and you can find plenty of infomration, stories and characters connected to the ship. When you get a ship like Quadjumper, all the info available boils down to 'it's a tug' and the TFA scene.

The ship feels...empty to me.

It's the star of the new videogame coming out soon,

Upsilon vs. Quadjumper: The Computer Game

Star Wars Space combat as it was meant to be. The most eagerly awaited, multiplayer space combat simulator is here. Sequel to the thrilling "Upsilon Shuttle" and "Quadjumper" games, pilot incredibly detailed starfighters, engage in melees, and determine once and for all who is the greatest starfighter pilot in the galaxy. Blow away your best friend in multiplayer mode, pursue unsavory characters, set off on new missions, find out what dangers lurk inside asteroids for the final time.

Single or multiplayer, new missions with upgraded 3D graphics, high resolution 16 bit color support, enhanced flight controls, Kylo Ren Plushie, and "smarter" enemy pilots.

Are you among the Elite?

"Finally, again, fans of LucasArts' seminal Star Wars space combat get what they've always wanted most, a Quadjumper game." -PC Gamer

Includes second CD for multiplayer gaming

edit- in all seriousness.. I kinda like the quad.

I can't speak for the other people,but here's my issue with that. When you get a ship with a rich EU presence, even if you haven't heard of it, you can go on the internet and you can find plenty of infomration, stories and characters connected to the ship. When you get a ship like Quadjumper, all the info available boils down to 'it's a tug' and the TFA scene.The ship feels...empty to me.

Empty Shmempty. It's new. I'm sure the Misthunter and Punishing One had little to no back-story in 1980 either. Let's check back in in 2052 and see if the Quadjumper has some history then.And besides, if we go on canon sources, then the Misthunter and Punishing One and K Wing and E Wing and all the other EU ships, well, they don't actually exist in Star Wars. To my mind, any amount of canon source, no matter how small, over-rules any amount of legends source, no matter how much of it there is. Canon is trumps for me, and probably for a lot of people.

Also, there are plenty of new ships with a story, or at least recongizable presence in TFA (T70, TIE/fo and Tie/sf, Kylo Ren's shuttle). So 'it's new' is not necessarily an excuse. 'it's new and was a piece of scenery' maybe.

Ultimately, while the Misthunter and Punishing One may not be canon, their ownes are and, unless you want to imply any other bounty hunter than Boba Fett walked to see Darth Vader in ESB, the existence of their respective ships is heavily implied by existing canon.

Though I am curious. What is your real problem with a biological symbiont connecting biological beings with a universal cosmic force? What is wrong with the idea in context of space fantasy?

I can't speak for the other guy, but my problem with midichlorians is the vibe of the thing. It feels, I dunno, grubby somehow, like the process of becoming this kick-ass space mageknight has to start with a blood test instead of some sacred ritual or rite. It cheapens the whole thing, IMO.

What exactly is 'as Star Wars as it gets' and recognizable about as ship that, as far as Star Wars canon is concerned was little more than scenery exploding on the background of Finn and Rey's escape?

I'm a pretty big Star Wars nerd, yet had never heard of the Misthunter, Punishing One, Hounds Tooth, K Wing, E Wing, TIE Punishingest, etc. We get all these ships that the overwhelming majority of people have never heard of, and no one bats an eyelid, but we get the quadjumper, a ship that has actually been seen on the screen in a Star Wars movie, and everyone loses their minds?

What's up with that?

Eh what he said.

I don't get it either. Its as Star Wars as it gets because it's in the actual Star Wars movies. Sure it played a small part but lots of things that are famous in Star Wars play small parts.

I can't speak for the other people,but here's my issue with that. When you get a ship with a rich EU presence, even if you haven't heard of it, you can go on the internet and you can find plenty of infomration, stories and characters connected to the ship. When you get a ship like Quadjumper, all the info available boils down to 'it's a tug' and the TFA scene.The ship feels...empty to me.

Empty Shmempty. It's new. I'm sure the Misthunter and Punishing One had little to no back-story in 1980 either. Let's check back in in 2052 and see if the Quadjumper has some history then.And besides, if we go on canon sources, then the Misthunter and Punishing One and K Wing and E Wing and all the other EU ships, well, they don't actually exist in Star Wars. To my mind, any amount of canon source, no matter how small, over-rules any amount of legends source, no matter how much of it there is. Canon is trumps for me, and probably for a lot of people.

I would have had the same complaint about the Misthunter and Punishing One had X-wing been released in 1980.

Also, there are plenty of new ships with a story, or at least recongizable presence in TFA (T70, TIE/fo and Tie/sf, Kylo Ren's shuttle). So 'it's new' is not necessarily an excuse. 'it's new and was a piece of scenery' maybe.

Ultimately, while the Misthunter and Punishing One may not be canon, their ownes are and, unless you want to imply any other bounty hunter than Boba Fett walked to see Darth Vader in ESB, the existence of their respective ships is heavily implied by existing canon.

That's just non-sense. I still have no idea what a Misthunter or Punishing One is. The Quadjumper I instantly reckognized because while it had a short scene in the movie, it is a classic moment in the movie where they re-introduce the millennium falcon.

Ultimately, while the Misthunter and Punishing One may not be canon, their ownes are and, unless you want to imply any other bounty hunter than Boba Fett walked to see Darth Vader in ESB, the existence of their respective ships is heavily implied by existing canon.

Right, we know they probably used SOME kind of ship at SOME point, but we don't really know much more than that.

But that's not the point.

I can totally see where you're coming from, but can't you also see where others are coming from? That's my point: That people who want this ship in the game, or at the very least aren't opposed to it's inclusion, have a valid point!

Yeah, as far as midichlorians go, I always preferred the idea that a high count was caused by Force sensitivity, rather than being the source of it. Otherwise you could gain Force sensitivity via organ transplants or even just blood transfusions from a Jedi. Or the Force equivalent of roiding up by injecting synthetic midichlorians. And a story where any of that would work is not freaking Star Wars.

That said, I would've preferred if the concept had never been introduced at all, and that discovering a Force sensitive person was just a matter of a Jedi or Sith sensing that "the Force is strong with this one."

The force is strong with his one is a non-functional concept. I get it, its cool. Now try to meet every person on earth the sense if the force is strong with any of them. Afterwards you have to check every new born of the last 4 years for force sensitivity again in person. 520 million childs to be checked. Lets assume it takes 1 second per child, our jedi recruiter needs over 16 years to check them all. So we need 4 jedis to spend 20 years on an earth size planet to find one or two potential new jedis. Did I mention that they are doing this 24/7 without rest, sleep, or anything else?

Nah, with the supposed rarity of force sensitives those blood tests make sense if you want to have any chance to have a sizeable jedi force.

Besides, bird eyes might use quantum entanglement to increase their senses, I am not gonna complain about cell organelles connecting to a mysterious force which makes up most of the energy of the universe. Especially not if the prequels did leave it open what the midichlorians actually do and several pieces even suggesting that they are only an indicator for force sensitivity and not the cause of force sensitivity ;-)

I'm not a huge "it must be cannon" guy anyway, I don't really care what ships they add as long as the ships have a quantifiable feel and back story that gives it a sense of place in the Star Wars universe and realistically that can be pretty much anything.

I do agree with citruscannon's sarcasm though that many of these ships kind of don't belong in X-Wing because they aren't thematically correct for the type of game it is. I mean it's a game about dog fighting, why would anyone be stupid enough to go into that in a bloody Imperial Shuttle. I understand why they added it, it's distinctively Star Wars, but yeah.. this game should be about dog fighting, Imperial shuttles are out of place in the game even though they fit perfectly into the Star Wars universe.

That ship however sailed a long time ago and at this point we have plenty "non-combat" ships in X-Wing so at this point to add a Quad Jumper and another Imperial Shuttle is kind of par for the course.

I do find it funny though that you anyone has a problem with the inclusion of the Quad Jumper, a ship from the movie, from cannon, but doesn't have a bone to pick with a Mist Hunter that not only doesn't exist in cannon but never even makes an appearance in a game, movie or pretty much anywhere with a Star Wars Logo. It was quite literarly made up for X-Wing from what I can tell then squeezed into the Wookiepedia to make it fit somewhere, its crowning achievement being chasing rebel transports after the Hoth battle.

Ultimately, while the Misthunter and Punishing One may not be canon, their ownes are and, unless you want to imply any other bounty hunter than Boba Fett walked to see Darth Vader in ESB, the existence of their respective ships is heavily implied by existing canon.

Right, we know they probably used SOME kind of ship at SOME point, but we don't really know much more than that.But that's not the point.I can totally see where you're coming from, but can't you also see where others are coming from? That's my point: That people who want this ship in the game, or at the very least aren't opposed to it's inclusion, have a valid point!

What I called out as wrong is the 'Quadjumper is recognizable' part, because I don't think it is. I honestly doubt too many Star Wars fans would be able to associate the model with the ship that blew out in TFA.

I'm not a huge "it must be cannon" guy anyway, I don't really care what ships they add as long as the ships have a quantifiable feel and back story that gives it a sense of place in the Star Wars universe and realistically that can be pretty much anything.

I do agree with citruscannon's sarcasm though that many of these ships kind of don't belong in X-Wing because they aren't thematically correct for the type of game it is. I mean it's a game about dog fighting, why would anyone be stupid enough to go into that in a bloody Imperial Shuttle. I understand why they added it, it's distinctively Star Wars, but yeah.. this game should be about dog fighting, Imperial shuttles are out of place in the game even though they fit perfectly into the Star Wars universe.

That ship however sailed a long time ago and at this point we have plenty "non-combat" ships in X-Wing so at this point to add a Quad Jumper and another Imperial Shuttle is kind of par for the course.

I do find it funny though that you anyone has a problem with the inclusion of the Quad Jumper, a ship from the movie, from cannon, but doesn't have a bone to pick with a Mist Hunter that not only doesn't exist in cannon but never even makes an appearance in a game, movie or pretty much anywhere with a Star Wars Logo. It was quite literarly made up for X-Wing from what I can tell then squeezed into the Wookiepedia to make it fit somewhere, its crowning achievement being chasing rebel transports after the Hoth battle.

Looks like someone wasn't playing Decipher's Star Wars CCG!

Ultimately, while the Misthunter and Punishing One may not be canon, their ownes are and, unless you want to imply any other bounty hunter than Boba Fett walked to see Darth Vader in ESB, the existence of their respective ships is heavily implied by existing canon.

Right, we know they probably used SOME kind of ship at SOME point, but we don't really know much more than that.But that's not the point.I can totally see where you're coming from, but can't you also see where others are coming from? That's my point: That people who want this ship in the game, or at the very least aren't opposed to it's inclusion, have a valid point!

I don't think I've claimed anyone is wrong about wanting a ship in the game, for whatever reason. Star Wars is a vast universe, and we all like different parts of it. It would be silly to bash people for liking another part of it. Would I have preferred something else instead? Absolutely. Will that stop me from having fun with the Quadjumper if it has cool mechanics? Definitely not.

What I called out as wrong is the 'Quadjumper is recognizable' part, because I don't think it is. I honestly doubt too many Star Wars fans would be able to associate the model with the ship that blew out in TFA.

Agreed. I don't object to the Quadjumper being in the game, but the whole, "I recognized it and I don't recognize other ships!" argument is about as valid as if I were to say, "I recognize the TIE Avenger but I didn't recognize the Quadjumper, therefore the TIE Avenger is more worthy of being in the game!"

(Cue people screaming, "But the one is canon and the other isn't!" as if that makes any difference to the point I'm trying to make, which is specifically about recognizability.)

I'm actually okay with shuttles and jumpers and everything else being in the game. The issue I draw (and I have NO idea how you would rectify this) is the comparative rarity that you see regular attack squadrons in the game.

I'm not talking about swarms or miniswarms, but functional, small, effective units that would be similar to what you saw in the films. A group of 4 x-wings that are competitive, a flight of interceptors, etc.etc.

something that makes me feel like I'm flying a squadron again.

something we started doing in our local group for this purpose exactly was to set a rule that you could only take the same type of small base ship, only one pilot at or over ps8, and you had an upper and lower limit of 3-5 ships. It was AWESOME.

I'm actually okay with shuttles and jumpers and everything else being in the game. The issue I draw (and I have NO idea how you would rectify this) is the comparative rarity that you see regular attack squadrons in the game.

I'm not talking about swarms or miniswarms, but functional, small, effective units that would be similar to what you saw in the films. A group of 4 x-wings that are competitive, a flight of interceptors, etc.etc.

something that makes me feel like I'm flying a squadron again.

something we started doing in our local group for this purpose exactly was to set a rule that you could only take the same type of small base ship, only one pilot at or over ps8, and you had an upper and lower limit of 3-5 ships. It was AWESOME.

I find epic works well for this, to be fair. But yes I agree.

I'm actually okay with shuttles and jumpers and everything else being in the game. The issue I draw (and I have NO idea how you would rectify this) is the comparative rarity that you see regular attack squadrons in the game.

I'm not talking about swarms or miniswarms, but functional, small, effective units that would be similar to what you saw in the films. A group of 4 x-wings that are competitive, a flight of interceptors, etc.etc.

something that makes me feel like I'm flying a squadron again.

something we started doing in our local group for this purpose exactly was to set a rule that you could only take the same type of small base ship, only one pilot at or over ps8, and you had an upper and lower limit of 3-5 ships. It was AWESOME.

Step away from the 100/6 format and you'll find that feeling again

100/6 is great as a purely competitive exercise, but frankly it's not very Star Wars.

Yep. Epic is really where you feel the Star Wars-ian aspect. You get squadrons of ships flying to do specific tasks. It's awesome. Tie Interceptors going to intercept the Y-wings. X-wings trying to break through the Tie Fighter screen to drop torpedoes on capital ships. All very fun.

I suddenly wish for a Freelancer esque game based in Star Wars.

There was a star wars mod for freelancer way back when.

I suddenly wish for a Freelancer esque game based in Star Wars.

I want Elite: Dangerous with a Star Wars skin on it.

I'm actually okay with shuttles and jumpers and everything else being in the game. The issue I draw (and I have NO idea how you would rectify this) is the comparative rarity that you see regular attack squadrons in the game.

I'm not talking about swarms or miniswarms, but functional, small, effective units that would be similar to what you saw in the films. A group of 4 x-wings that are competitive, a flight of interceptors, etc.etc.

something that makes me feel like I'm flying a squadron again.

something we started doing in our local group for this purpose exactly was to set a rule that you could only take the same type of small base ship, only one pilot at or over ps8, and you had an upper and lower limit of 3-5 ships. It was AWESOME.

Step away from the 100/6 format and you'll find that feeling again

100/6 is great as a purely competitive exercise, but frankly it's not very Star Wars.

I have to disagree. For me it is very, very star wars. It not the focus of the movies, but it fits the universe perfectly to have this small scale skirmishes. For example when Jango hunted Obi-Wan or Anakin was trying to get rid of bounty hunters or Luke got owned by Mara Jade in her Z-95 or even whe Maarek Stele was saving the emperor (this can be cut in multiple 100pts battles with Vader, Stele and a Palp shuttle.)

It star wars, it just not all of it and epic is and should be a big part of it as well, transcending into Armada for the large battles.

Nothing wrong with either format imho, it just different and if you are in for those attack squadrons than epic should be what you are aiming for. Even the rather small campaign missions which come with the raider have a significant different feeling than those 100pts duells, which come down to one Flight of ships against another, while epic allows for full squadrons of 12 ships to fight another squadron. Both come with the optional ships which get protected by their fighters, Palp aces for example is the shuttle with Ace and his Wingman as escort, while the rebel transport is clearly that ship which needs protection from a rebel squadron.

I suddenly wish for a Freelancer esque game based in Star Wars.

I want Elite: Dangerous with a Star Wars skin on it.

I want elite dangerous that isn't insanely boring.

I think most X-Wing players have sort of diluted there own experiences by seeing X-Wing as a "competitive" game which is an odd thing that happens to most miniatures game but is actually completly contrary to the inspiration and purpose of the original designers. Take Warhammer 40k for example. I mean, this is a heavily abstracted miniatures war game built around a creative hobby of assembling and painting miniatures. For business purposes Gamesworkshop turned it into a competitive game but realistically it's original designer did not intend for that and it's exactly why today everyone looks at the rules and recognizes what a mess it is.

Truth is that the rules aren't a mess, it's just not intended to be a competitive occasion, its meant to be an aesthetic game of story telling a great battle. Your suppose to enjoy playing it, win or lose and it's why winning and losing conditions are rather obtuse.

It's the same with X-Wing but because of the presidence of miniature competitive gaming it started out as a game geared towards competition despite the fact that as a miniatures game it's true home is to be an aesthetic storytelling game. The reality is that if you approach it in this manner, as an aesthetic game of dog fighting and don't bind yourself to "tournament rules" of standard 100 point battles, with meta's and competitive point calculation and just play the game for fun, it's a far more entertaining and exhilarating game of creating Star Wars epics. You can draw out those Star Wars moments easily.

For me X-Wing started as a non-competitive game and this is when it was the absolute best.. When people built X-Wing lists for aesthetics and theme, rather then competition. When I started competitive play the game kind of got ruined because suddenly 80% of it was basically useless in the meta game. I have shifted back to "fun play"... gotten away from 100 point standards and the game has not only turned around but really opened up to some of the most amazing table time moments I have ever had. I will never go back to competitive play, it's completely dead to me.

In that sense, I can understand the poster to a degree when it comes to ships that have the background and story on which to develop lists but I think FFG is really still doing that they are just using content from more recent Star Wars lore.. aka Rebels and the new movie, which to me is just fine. It's not as thematic and core as the original and I really hope they go back to doing prequel ships in the future but I will happily put together a Star Wars Episode 7 themed deck with the milenium falcon and Kylo Rens shuttle.... Im totally down for that.

For those looking to open up the game.. My suggestion is go big. 150, 200, even 300 point lists.. set rules like.. we are doing the battle of Yavin IV or Escape from Hoth, limiting ship and pilot choices and try to create a fun experience... That I'm convinced is where all the best X-Wing matches can be found. They might not always be balanced or competitive... but they are always fun.

What EU ships are left that are more relevant than current cannon?

In my opinion every EU ship with a story to tell is more relevant than something like the Quadjumper.

That's just me though. I'd rather have 5-10 pages of EU lore to read about a new ship than half a page of 'this is a tug' and 4 seconds of movie.

The Quadjumper absolutely has stories to tell. You're just in before the stories this time. Imagine the only information you had on the A-Wing was Return of the Jedi. Sure, they got more screen time than the Quadjumper. Despite having seen the movie, I wasn't really aware it was a thing until I saw it in games.

Maybe, maybe not. Is there any guarantee the Quadjumper will be used in other stories?

Dude, this is Star Wars we're talking about! There's a detailed backstory for the Wolfman costume they pulled out of the studio wardrobe bin and his Jedi lamprey girlfriend. It was published more than a decade after the movie they were in, but after running out of other material to mine, they got there.

The Quad was on screen for just as long as any Cantina alien and even had a line of dialogue about it by a main character. In 10 years there will be enough EU info on it to fill an entire encyclopedia.

I suddenly wish for a Freelancer esque game based in Star Wars.

I want Elite: Dangerous with a Star Wars skin on it.

I want elite dangerous that isn't insanely boring.

That is already out there. Elite is only boring if you make it boring. A lot of people have problems with sandbox games to actually do something which they like instead of doing something which advance their credit account. Sounds almost to much like the real world. ;-)

edit: Though I totally don't want a star wars sandbox space sim. I rather take a more interesting approach like Star Citizen for that. Though I totally would love to see a classic co-op campaign setting with X-Wings. This time maybe a little bit more Wing Commander like with branching campaigns and episodic DLCs and 8 player co-op. Battle at Yavin or Endor in modern graphics and old school X-Wing gameplay would be awesome. Even better if you add options to play imperial vs rebels pvp on those missions.

I think most X-Wing players have sort of diluted there own experiences by seeing X-Wing as a "competitive" game which is an odd thing that happens to most miniatures game but is actually completly contrary to the inspiration and purpose of the original designers. Take Warhammer 40k for example.

I totally get your point. Even Games Workshop recognized this problem and attempted to rectify it with their Fantasy equivalent. They produced Age of Sigmar with none of the points values and army composition rules from the previous edition of Warhammer. The sales results were disappointing and it was only the new core box sets offering models at a substantial discount over the individual models that saw any decent sales.

For months GW insisted that this was a new way of playing, one that emphasised fun and creativity over list building and competitive play. Eventually, in the face of slumping sales, they capitulated and released the General's Handbook which put points values and matched scenarios back in. I don't know if this about-face has changed much yet although I did buy a copy.

What this shows though is that it is in human nature to be competitive and to seek a balanced environment. Contrary to some people's feelings, I believe that scenario play and unbalanced games are actually harder and require more experienced gamers. Introduce a new gamer to that style of play and they will likely be put off by what they perceive as a 1-sided game. Even if they are the winner, they may well end up feeling that the game provides an unsatisfying experience.

My point in this rambling is not that people should only play games in one way. Far from it, I believe good games are the ones that lend themselves to being played however people want. But you have to get the basics of balanced competitive play right or you will never sustain the interest of the core gamers who make up the bulk of the hobby.

I suddenly wish for a Freelancer esque game based in Star Wars.

I want Elite: Dangerous with a Star Wars skin on it.

I want elite dangerous that isn't insanely boring.

That is already out there. Elite is only boring if you make it boring. A lot of people have problems with sandbox games to actually do something which they like instead of doing something which advance their credit account. Sounds almost to much like the real world. ;-)

edit: Though I totally don't want a star wars sandbox space sim. I rather take a more interesting approach like Star Citizen for that. Though I totally would love to see a classic co-op campaign setting with X-Wings. This time maybe a little bit more Wing Commander like with branching campaigns and episodic DLCs and 8 player co-op. Battle at Yavin or Endor in modern graphics and old school X-Wing gameplay would be awesome. Even better if you add options to play imperial vs rebels pvp on those missions.

Co-op campaign would be nice, but can we make sure there's also enough content for a decent single-player campaign, as well? Some of us don't like our games to be unplayable just because the Internet's out or no one happens to be on at a given time.