The big no behind the vong really to me at least is that it's doesn't fit the theme of Star Wars. They never have.

It's not that they don't fit into SW, it's that the way the were written and portrayed doesn't fit into SW. The idea of an alien threat that is resistant to Jedi and bent on "reconstructing" the galaxy for their own purposes is very Star-Warsy. It just the lazy writing and "they can beat anything!" mentality that was the problem. Kind of like how Mandalorian culture, and all that stuff was pretty cool until KT basically made them the perfect society where everything always works out.

The concept of the Vong wasn't the problem, it was the execution (not to mention the fact that 19 books written by a multitude of authors is gonna screw up somewhere, and it just so happened to be the first half of the series that was bad)

Illithids too. Lots of otherworldly alien creatures cropping up.

Who came first, the SW Yuuzhan Vong or the IK Skorne? They appear nearly at the same time.

Well, anyway, before any of them, long before, they were the Githyankis...

Forgive my ignorance, but what is "IK"?

IK is Iron Kingdoms. It's the world setting for Warmachine and Hordes from Privateer Press.

And then there were HP Lovecraft's Great Old Ones and the creatures inspired by his writing.

You know, I think I know more X-wing players that never played the old 1990's game than those that do. I think the idea that the majority of X-wingers have played those games is not true.

I would say that the majority of sales is based on peoples in their thirties and that would be the age group who played X-Wing and TIE-Fighter when they were new. I will not claim that this is the majority of players, just the majority of income for FFG. ;-)

The big no behind the vong really to me at least is that it's doesn't fit the theme of Star Wars. They never have.

It's not that they don't fit into SW, it's that the way the were written and portrayed doesn't fit into SW. The idea of an alien threat that is resistant to Jedi and bent on "reconstructing" the galaxy for their own purposes is very Star-Warsy. It just the lazy writing and "they can beat anything!" mentality that was the problem. Kind of like how Mandalorian culture, and all that stuff was pretty cool until KT basically made them the perfect society where everything always works out.

The concept of the Vong wasn't the problem, it was the execution (not to mention the fact that 19 books written by a multitude of authors is gonna screw up somewhere, and it just so happened to be the first half of the series that was bad)

The idea that something could be alive and yet outside the Force kind of goes against the very concept of the Force. Not to mention the idea that being outside the Force renders them immune to Force techniques like telekinesis makes no sense. A droid is outside the Force too, but the Force can move it around just fine.

Whether or not you personally like the new material, do you honestly expect FFG to NOT make ships that appear on screen and are recognizable to current Star Wars fans, regardless of age?

Do you genuinely think the Quadjumper is recognizable? That if you showed a Star Wars fan just the model he'll immediately be able to say 'this is a Quadjumper'? The ship appears on screen for the grand total of about 4 seconds, and never up close.

To a 15 year old kid in a hobby store who just saw TFA and is as crazy about SW as I was in 1977? You bet your hind-parts it is recognizable. As recognizable as the "Patrol Dewback" ever was. Which we all purchased with our hard-earned Carter-administration allowance money!

And let me point out that's 4 seconds MORE screen time than the Gunboat has ever had. I have to say it comes out on top.

The big no behind the vong really to me at least is that it's doesn't fit the theme of Star Wars. They never have.

It's not that they don't fit into SW, it's that the way the were written and portrayed doesn't fit into SW. The idea of an alien threat that is resistant to Jedi and bent on "reconstructing" the galaxy for their own purposes is very Star-Warsy. It just the lazy writing and "they can beat anything!" mentality that was the problem. Kind of like how Mandalorian culture, and all that stuff was pretty cool until KT basically made them the perfect society where everything always works out.

The concept of the Vong wasn't the problem, it was the execution (not to mention the fact that 19 books written by a multitude of authors is gonna screw up somewhere, and it just so happened to be the first half of the series that was bad)

The idea that something could be alive and yet outside the Force kind of goes against the very concept of the Force. Not to mention the idea that being outside the Force renders them immune to Force techniques like telekinesis makes no sense. A droid is outside the Force too, but the Force can move it around just fine.

As discovered by the Jedi during the war with the Yuuzhan Vong they are apparently "absent" from the Force. In the book The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force by James Luceno, the reason for this is given. The Yuuzhan Vong are not "absent" from the Force; their entire species has been cut off from it. It is surmised in the novel that this was implemented by the intelligence of their homeworld, the seed of which would one day become Zonama Sekot, because of their war-mongering and hostile conquering of other species.

Perhaps most notably, the Yuuzhan Vong were unable to be sensed through the Force. This confounded the Jedi who first encountered the Yuuzhan Vong. However, they were susceptible to some Force based attacks.

They're not outside the force, and they're susceptible to telekinesis.

The big no behind the vong really to me at least is that it's doesn't fit the theme of Star Wars. They never have.

It's not that they don't fit into SW, it's that the way the were written and portrayed doesn't fit into SW. The idea of an alien threat that is resistant to Jedi and bent on "reconstructing" the galaxy for their own purposes is very Star-Warsy. It just the lazy writing and "they can beat anything!" mentality that was the problem. Kind of like how Mandalorian culture, and all that stuff was pretty cool until KT basically made them the perfect society where everything always works out.

The concept of the Vong wasn't the problem, it was the execution (not to mention the fact that 19 books written by a multitude of authors is gonna screw up somewhere, and it just so happened to be the first half of the series that was bad)

The idea that something could be alive and yet outside the Force kind of goes against the very concept of the Force. Not to mention the idea that being outside the Force renders them immune to Force techniques like telekinesis makes no sense. A droid is outside the Force too, but the Force can move it around just fine.

Explain the Ysalamiri, then.

A species that has evolved to occlude the Force around them as a response to Force-sensitive predators.

It's camouflage, not an absence from the Force.

The big no behind the vong really to me at least is that it's doesn't fit the theme of Star Wars. They never have.

It's not that they don't fit into SW, it's that the way the were written and portrayed doesn't fit into SW. The idea of an alien threat that is resistant to Jedi and bent on "reconstructing" the galaxy for their own purposes is very Star-Warsy. It just the lazy writing and "they can beat anything!" mentality that was the problem. Kind of like how Mandalorian culture, and all that stuff was pretty cool until KT basically made them the perfect society where everything always works out.

The concept of the Vong wasn't the problem, it was the execution (not to mention the fact that 19 books written by a multitude of authors is gonna screw up somewhere, and it just so happened to be the first half of the series that was bad)

The idea that something could be alive and yet outside the Force kind of goes against the very concept of the Force. Not to mention the idea that being outside the Force renders them immune to Force techniques like telekinesis makes no sense. A droid is outside the Force too, but the Force can move it around just fine.

Explain the Ysalamiri, then.

Exactly the issue I have with the whole EU. Thanks for the summary!

A species that has evolved to occlude the Force around them as a response to Force-sensitive predators.

It's camouflage, not an absence from the Force.

That's camouflage if camouflage normally blinds people within 10 meters of it.

The big no behind the vong really to me at least is that it's doesn't fit the theme of Star Wars. They never have.

It's not that they don't fit into SW, it's that the way the were written and portrayed doesn't fit into SW. The idea of an alien threat that is resistant to Jedi and bent on "reconstructing" the galaxy for their own purposes is very Star-Warsy. It just the lazy writing and "they can beat anything!" mentality that was the problem. Kind of like how Mandalorian culture, and all that stuff was pretty cool until KT basically made them the perfect society where everything always works out.

The concept of the Vong wasn't the problem, it was the execution (not to mention the fact that 19 books written by a multitude of authors is gonna screw up somewhere, and it just so happened to be the first half of the series that was bad)

The idea that something could be alive and yet outside the Force kind of goes against the very concept of the Force. Not to mention the idea that being outside the Force renders them immune to Force techniques like telekinesis makes no sense. A droid is outside the Force too, but the Force can move it around just fine.

Explain the Ysalamiri, then.

They are force sensitive and using a force force power. Besides Filoni stated that he will not use Ysalamiri because he and George Lucas do not thing that their power fits into the star wars universe and the general theme of the force. Midichlorians in every living cell of the galaxy it is, connecting the living and cosmic force with each other. Mitochondrion are cool too. ;-)

Mitochondrion are cool too. ;-)

Midichlorians are one of the worst things ever happen to the SW universe.

Or, as more politely said by JJ Abrams

<<

I will just say this: I would never presume to question anything George Lucas says is canon in Star Wars. And our job was not to negate or undo. A lot of people who are critics of our Star Trek, and I respect all of them, said we destroyed what they loved and negated everything. And we worked hard to clarify that we are not saying that our Star Trek over-rides a thing of the original Star Trek — it was a parallel timeline. I never wanted to negate canon that fans held so dear. And because I love Star Wars and have for too many years… … And having said all that and meaning it — I don’t want to presume over-write or change what George says the rules are.

I’m not someone who quite understands the science of the Force. To me Star Wars was never about science fiction — it was a spiritual story. And it was more of a fairytale in that regard. For me when I heard Obi-Wan say that the Force surrounds us and binds us all together, there was no judgement about who you were. This was something that we could all access. Being strong with the force didn’t mean something scientific, it meant something spiritual. It meant someone who could believe, someone who could reach down to the depths of your feelings and follow this primal energy that was flowing through all of us. I mean, thats what was said in that first film!

And there I am sitting in the theater at almost 11 years old and that was a powerful notion. And I think this is what your point was, we would like to believe that when **** gets serious, that you could harness that Force I was told surrounds not just some of us but every living thing. And so, I really feel like the assumption that any character needs to have inherited a certain number of midi-chlorians or needs to be part of a bloodline, it’s not that I don’t believe that as part of the canon, I’m just saying that at 11 years old, that wasn’t where my heart was. And so I respect and adhere to the canon but I also say that the Force has always seemed to me to be more inclusive and stronger than that.

>>

And there I am sitting in the theater at almost 11 years old and that was a powerful notion. And I think this is what your point was, we would like to believe that when **** gets serious, that you could harness that Force I was told surrounds not just some of us but every living thing. And so, I really feel like the assumption that any character needs to have inherited a certain number of midi-chlorians or needs to be part of a bloodline, it’s not that I don’t believe that as part of the canon, I’m just saying that at 11 years old, that wasn’t where my heart was. And so I respect and adhere to the canon but I also say that the Force has always seemed to me to be more inclusive and stronger than that.

>>

Thing about the prequels is that a lot of stuff people HATED about them were actually there all along, and people just didn't see it.

For example - the Clone Wars involving droids instead of just clones on all sides. Explains easily away the Episode IV bartender's objection to the droids - "We don't serve their kind here" being delivered in such an angry tone doesn't happen if there isn't a lot of bad history, recently.

Or the ability to 'use the Force' being passed through bloodlines (-ish). It was noted the Empire 'hunted down and exterminated the Jedi'...a little hard to do if anyone that is anywhere can just spring up as a Force user. If it's something you can test for, and hereditary? MUCH easier! And then Luke mentioned that the 'Force is strong in my family' in RotJ - pretty clearly indicating there was some biological basis for it, if nothing else.

etc.

It's not like these ideas were sprung whole cloth into being, just for the prequels...

Mitochondrion are cool too. ;-)

Midichlorians are one of the worst things ever happen to the SW universe.

I said Mitochondrion, you know that thing in your body which creates your life energy. Literally. ;-)

And JJ is the guy who gives his audience empty boxes. That is basically his contribution to the art. His writing is worse than GL too, though JJ can write dialogs, he just can not come up with an interesting story if his life depends on it, but he can fake one, which is in his words just as good if not even better.

The difference is between "Force is strong in my family" and "My family always had a rather high count of midichlorians, also a tendency to diabetes..."

Is like the difference between "lock S-foils in attack position" and "Open the wings of the fighters, this way the wind of the space will let us get more speed, because of aerodynamics, you know..."

Not at all, but it certainly is easier to bash the fantasy elements when they sound more scientific. The biggest irony in this context is that TPM actually never explained what midichlorians actually do, just that they are something similar to cell organelles and are an indicator for potential in the force.

So what does the scouter say? His midichlorians are over 9,000 … impossible. ;-)

Though I am curious. What is your real problem with a biological symbiont connecting biological beings with a universal cosmic force? What is wrong with the idea in context of space fantasy?

Maybe if they're symbiotes, they are just more attracted to force sensitives,and amplify natural aptitude.

It typically takes Zahn a year to write a book. This is due to be published in 2017....

Yeah, as far as midichlorians go, I always preferred the idea that a high count was caused by Force sensitivity, rather than being the source of it. Otherwise you could gain Force sensitivity via organ transplants or even just blood transfusions from a Jedi. Or the Force equivalent of roiding up by injecting synthetic midichlorians. And a story where any of that would work is not freaking Star Wars.

That said, I would've preferred if the concept had never been introduced at all, and that discovering a Force sensitive person was just a matter of a Jedi or Sith sensing that "the Force is strong with this one."

Yeah I'm not sure what people are complaining about here, I mean, ok they put out a couple of ships from the Rebel cartoon which I guess is a bit less Star Wars then some old school fans are used to but "The Heroes of The Resistance" expansion, Arc-170, Upsilon Shuttle, Imperial Veterans.. 99% of everything that is out today is definitively, identifiable as Star Wars ships most of it right out of the movies. Even the Quadjumper is as Star Wars as it gets.. I mean it's new Star Wars, but to suggest that it's some how not recognizable by a Star Wars fan is silly or some sort of travesty is ridiculous.

FFG is doing what they are supposed to do. I mean sure they could reach for the Pre-quals but why would they do that now when they could draw on new Star Wars content actively being made today. I much rather see ships from the new movies then the prequels, its fresh and new and in terms of the classics, every major ship from the movie has been released, in some cases more than once. I mean Boba Fett was a completely irrelevant Star Wars cameo character and his ship that appears for a grand total of 30 seconds between all Star Wars movies has two separate versions! He's gotten more of X-Wings attention then Luke Skywalker and Han Solo put together.

Even the Quadjumper is as Star Wars as it gets.. I mean it's new Star Wars, but to suggest that it's some how not recognizable by a Star Wars fan is silly or some sort of travesty is ridiculous.

What exactly is 'as Star Wars as it gets' and recognizable about as ship that, as far as Star Wars canon is concerned was little more than scenery exploding on the background of Finn and Rey's escape?

Though I am curious. What is your real problem with a biological symbiont connecting biological beings with a universal cosmic force? What is wrong with the idea in context of space fantasy?

I can't speak for the other guy, but my problem with midichlorians is the vibe of the thing. It feels, I dunno, grubby somehow, like the process of becoming this kick-ass space mageknight has to start with a blood test instead of some sacred ritual or rite. It cheapens the whole thing, IMO.

What exactly is 'as Star Wars as it gets' and recognizable about as ship that, as far as Star Wars canon is concerned was little more than scenery exploding on the background of Finn and Rey's escape?

I'm a pretty big Star Wars nerd, yet had never heard of the Misthunter, Punishing One, Hounds Tooth, K Wing, E Wing, TIE Punishingest, etc. We get all these ships that the overwhelming majority of people have never heard of, and no one bats an eyelid, but we get the quadjumper, a ship that has actually been seen on the screen in a Star Wars movie, and everyone loses their minds?

What's up with that?