Straight up though you would not be able to declare an attack in the first place if your original armament couldn't fire at long range to begin with. So replacing black with red would be only possible if the ship started the attack within short range no?

Based on my first read of the Sato card, I read it as If I have 4 red dice while attacking, I can choose to replace up to 2 of those red with either black or blue dice or 1 of each. Before getting bogged down in the technical aspect of the wording, my natural interpretation of replace would be to substitute 2 dice with a different color before actually rolling them. Although it sounds really cool that I could roll, then say' those' are crap, make them 'these' instead and roll those seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Once again, the rules as they are this is possible, but seems to be lacking in the intention. As a casual gamer I would never assume that these would be rolled after already rolling the attack.

except then you are re-rolling, so you would need a re-roll ability.

The attack pool is the collection of dice before you roll them. Once they are rolled, they are results, and you have no dice in your attack pool to swap.

I think the exchange is made prior to the roll. But I could be wrong

Sato seems very powerful, but then you need to factor in range 1, how many times are you going to have squadrons in range 1 of a target vessel, you might be lucky and have 1 chance before your opponent activates that ship and moves it out of range of the squadrons. (Obviously the reverse is true, it might have been the first thing to activate, and now is going to get pummeled soundly.)

What I do see being powerful, is that in the haste to get away from the squadrons, unless you can keep away from another enemy ship, you might just be jumping into blue or worse dice range of another ship. So Sato combined with squadrons sees Rebel commanders gain the ability to dictate (to some degree) where your enemy moves his/her ships.

Thankfully Imperias can take some really nasty anti squadron stuff, which for the most part will not be wasted points, whether you end up facing a Sato build or not.

I think the exchange is made prior to the roll. But I could be wrong

As pointed out earlier in the thread:

"Attack Pool

During an attack, the attack pool is comprised of all dice being used for that attack. This includes the dice gathered prior to rolling as well as the dice after they are rolled." (Boldy Italics mine)

You could exchange them prior to the roll, but I don't think you'd want to. You'd want to just replace the two obligatory blanks that come free every time you roll a bunch of red dice.

Tantive set up as a token distributor to give out a couple of fighter command tokens to ships with a pair of a wings, you have a sort of sato starter kit.

I think the exchange is made prior to the roll. But I could be wrong

As pointed out earlier in the thread:

"Attack Pool

During an attack, the attack pool is comprised of all dice being used for that attack. This includes the dice gathered prior to rolling as well as the dice after they are rolled." (Boldy Italics mine)

You could exchange them prior to the roll, but I don't think you'd want to. You'd want to just replace the two obligatory blanks that come free every time you roll a bunch of red dice.

Except the commander is about synergy with squadrons, the card reads as you utilize the squadrons for a more damaging attack, not rerolls.

Is it just mc30s which have red dice and ordnance upgrades?

Hmmm they are a bit expensive with a lack of squadron activations to really thrive by doing this.

The default carrier build wave 2 is mc80, yavaris, taintive. Even with rerolls there isnt much there to benefit from this, so maybe it is balanced really nicely.

What it really does is add another reason to consider squad defence when building squad light fleets.

I also like that it goes against default squad play. Time to spread squads out and not bunch them into balls.

I also like that it goes against default squad play. Time to spread squads out and not bunch them into balls.

So much this. I could get into squads more if they were all over the place like this, making individual attack runs/dogfights/etc. cause up until now it's just a cloud of fighters and you and your opponent going back and forth trying to get one squad within distance one of this guy while staying out of engagement with these other squads a few millimeters over... The whole thing gets very tedious (imho).

I think folks are forgetting a very important part of his card: you can only replace 2 dice.

This makes me think there won't be any addition to the rules. Needing a squadron in close with it being limited to two dice makes it situational and not as over powered, so it's something that could be looked for.

I think we'll get clarification of this rule at some point, but not so much anything being added

What do you guys think of this Sato fleet? Relies on keeping the enemy at long range, and tossing in an a wing prior to attack in order to (hopefully) just keep proccing APTs from downtown all game, and if I do get into close, the lil shrimps can now toss 5 blacks out the side and 3 out of the front.

Fleet Summary Page (398 of 400 pts) Faction: Rebel Alliance Commander: Sato (32 pts)

Flagship: (78 pts) MC30c Scout Frigate (69 pts) Ordnance Experts (4 pts) Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 1: (78 pts) MC30c Scout Frigate (69 pts) Ordnance Experts (4 pts) Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 2: (78 pts) MC30c Scout Frigate (69 pts) Ordnance Experts (4 pts) Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 3: (24 pts) GR-75 Medium Transports (18 pts) Boosted Comms (4 pts) Comms net (2 pts)

Squadrons (108 of 134 pts): 6x A-Wing Squadron (66 pts) 1x Tycho Celchu A-Wing Squadron (16 pts) 1x Millennium Falcon - Han Solo (26 pts)

Objectives: Opening Salvo , Hyperspace Assault , Superior Positions?

Is it just mc30s which have red dice and ordnance upgrades?

Hmmm they are a bit expensive with a lack of squadron activations to really thrive by doing this.

The default carrier build wave 2 is mc80, yavaris, taintive. Even with rerolls there isnt much there to benefit from this, so maybe it is balanced really nicely.

What it really does is add another reason to consider squad defence when building squad light fleets.

I also like that it goes against default squad play. Time to spread squads out and not bunch them into balls.

Don't forget that we will get a Rogue X-Wing and Hera that will give Rogue to 2 squadron in range. It will soon be possible to do a decent squadron list without commiting too much to carriers. In a Sato Build and all those rogue possibilities, I think that one will be enough. And Phoenix Home should be able to play that part nicely!

Is it just mc30s which have red dice and ordnance upgrades?

Hmmm they are a bit expensive with a lack of squadron activations to really thrive by doing this.

The default carrier build wave 2 is mc80, yavaris, taintive. Even with rerolls there isnt much there to benefit from this, so maybe it is balanced really nicely.

What it really does is add another reason to consider squad defence when building squad light fleets.

I also like that it goes against default squad play. Time to spread squads out and not bunch them into balls.

Don't forget that we will get a Rogue X-Wing and Hera that will give Rogue to 2 squadron in range. It will soon be possible to do a decent squadron list without commiting too much to carriers. In a Sato Build and all those rogue possibilities, I think that one will be enough. And Phoenix Home should be able to play that part nicely!

Or just take YT-2400's

except then you are re-rolling, so you would need a re-roll ability.

The attack pool is the collection of dice before you roll them. Once they are rolled, they are results, and you have no dice in your attack pool to swap.

Just wanted to make sure that it's clear to everyone that this is inaccurate. The attack pool is all dice involved in the attack, both before and after throwing them.

There is no reroll involved, because you're not throwing the same dice again, you're throwing the new ones with which you replaced the old.

I'm open to the possibility that the intent behind the card is that the dice be replaced before the first roll, but it would really have to be errata'd (or the text changed before release) in order to make that the case. Which would make it pretty terrible. As written, it clearly permits modification after the initial roll.

Is it just mc30s which have red dice and ordnance upgrades?

Hmmm they are a bit expensive with a lack of squadron activations to really thrive by doing this.

The default carrier build wave 2 is mc80, yavaris, taintive. Even with rerolls there isnt much there to benefit from this, so maybe it is balanced really nicely.

What it really does is add another reason to consider squad defence when building squad light fleets.

I also like that it goes against default squad play. Time to spread squads out and not bunch them into balls.

Don't forget that we will get a Rogue X-Wing and Hera that will give Rogue to 2 squadron in range. It will soon be possible to do a decent squadron list without commiting too much to carriers. In a Sato Build and all those rogue possibilities, I think that one will be enough. And Phoenix Home should be able to play that part nicely!

Or just take YT-2400's

Is it just mc30s which have red dice and ordnance upgrades?

Hmmm they are a bit expensive with a lack of squadron activations to really thrive by doing this.

The default carrier build wave 2 is mc80, yavaris, taintive. Even with rerolls there isnt much there to benefit from this, so maybe it is balanced really nicely.

What it really does is add another reason to consider squad defence when building squad light fleets.

I also like that it goes against default squad play. Time to spread squads out and not bunch them into balls.

Don't forget that we will get a Rogue X-Wing and Hera that will give Rogue to 2 squadron in range. It will soon be possible to do a decent squadron list without commiting too much to carriers. In a Sato Build and all those rogue possibilities, I think that one will be enough. And Phoenix Home should be able to play that part nicely!

Or just take YT-2400's

Exactly! But not everyone feels like buying multiple R&V packs to do it, or prefer to field more thematic list. Now they'll be able to do it.

Is it just mc30s which have red dice and ordnance upgrades?

Hmmm they are a bit expensive with a lack of squadron activations to really thrive by doing this.

The default carrier build wave 2 is mc80, yavaris, taintive. Even with rerolls there isnt much there to benefit from this, so maybe it is balanced really nicely.

What it really does is add another reason to consider squad defence when building squad light fleets.

I also like that it goes against default squad play. Time to spread squads out and not bunch them into balls.

Don't forget that we will get a Rogue X-Wing and Hera that will give Rogue to 2 squadron in range. It will soon be possible to do a decent squadron list without commiting too much to carriers. In a Sato Build and all those rogue possibilities, I think that one will be enough. And Phoenix Home should be able to play that part nicely!

Or just take YT-2400's

Exactly! But not everyone feels like buying multiple R&V packs to do it, or prefer to field more thematic list. Now they'll be able to do it.

Sure, but there are more options. You don't need Rogue though, that is just a bonus

Is it just mc30s which have red dice and ordnance upgrades?

Hmmm they are a bit expensive with a lack of squadron activations to really thrive by doing this.

The default carrier build wave 2 is mc80, yavaris, taintive. Even with rerolls there isnt much there to benefit from this, so maybe it is balanced really nicely.

What it really does is add another reason to consider squad defence when building squad light fleets.

I also like that it goes against default squad play. Time to spread squads out and not bunch them into balls.

Don't forget that we will get a Rogue X-Wing and Hera that will give Rogue to 2 squadron in range. It will soon be possible to do a decent squadron list without commiting too much to carriers. In a Sato Build and all those rogue possibilities, I think that one will be enough. And Phoenix Home should be able to play that part nicely!

Or just take YT-2400's

Exactly! But not everyone feels like buying multiple R&V packs to do it, or prefer to field more thematic list. Now they'll be able to do it.

Sure, but there are more options. You don't need Rogue though, that is just a bonus

Not saying that Rogue is mandatory, but if you don't want to invest in carriers, it sure helps to make a squadron heavy fleet and get the most out of it. I only wanted to point out that Sato won't be tied to a carrier fleet. You could run a couple MC30 with APT and some rogue squadron and it could get ugly fast, something to try out I'm sure.

You can also just start using Squadron commands to get whatever fighter in there. I don't have the math, but I feel confident that using a Squadron command to turn 3R into 1R2B is better than 4R with a CF command.

Is it just mc30s which have red dice and ordnance upgrades?

Hmmm they are a bit expensive with a lack of squadron activations to really thrive by doing this.

The default carrier build wave 2 is mc80, yavaris, taintive. Even with rerolls there isnt much there to benefit from this, so maybe it is balanced really nicely.

What it really does is add another reason to consider squad defence when building squad light fleets.

I also like that it goes against default squad play. Time to spread squads out and not bunch them into balls.

Don't forget that we will get a Rogue X-Wing and Hera that will give Rogue to 2 squadron in range. It will soon be possible to do a decent squadron list without commiting too much to carriers. In a Sato Build and all those rogue possibilities, I think that one will be enough. And Phoenix Home should be able to play that part nicely!

Or just take YT-2400's

Exactly! But not everyone feels like buying multiple R&V packs to do it, or prefer to field more thematic list. Now they'll be able to do it.

Sure, but there are more options. You don't need Rogue though, that is just a bonus

Not saying that Rogue is mandatory, but if you don't want to invest in carriers, it sure helps to make a squadron heavy fleet and get the most out of it. I only wanted to point out that Sato won't be tied to a carrier fleet. You could run a couple MC30 with APT and some rogue squadron and it could get ugly fast, something to try out I'm sure.

That is correct but a squadron token is just as good to an A-Wing as taking a YT2400

This is pretty much what my previously posted list was banking on exploiting. Squadron token from an mc30 to fling an a wing into position so that it could trigger APTs from long range, and then move out of range to set up for the next shot

Rouge is nice and all but going last is a significant trade off

Is it just mc30s which have red dice and ordnance upgrades?

Hmmm they are a bit expensive with a lack of squadron activations to really thrive by doing this.

The default carrier build wave 2 is mc80, yavaris, taintive. Even with rerolls there isnt much there to benefit from this, so maybe it is balanced really nicely.

What it really does is add another reason to consider squad defence when building squad light fleets.

I also like that it goes against default squad play. Time to spread squads out and not bunch them into balls.

Don't forget that we will get a Rogue X-Wing and Hera that will give Rogue to 2 squadron in range. It will soon be possible to do a decent squadron list without commiting too much to carriers. In a Sato Build and all those rogue possibilities, I think that one will be enough. And Phoenix Home should be able to play that part nicely!

Or just take YT-2400's

Exactly! But not everyone feels like buying multiple R&V packs to do it, or prefer to field more thematic list. Now they'll be able to do it.

Sure, but there are more options. You don't need Rogue though, that is just a bonus

Not saying that Rogue is mandatory, but if you don't want to invest in carriers, it sure helps to make a squadron heavy fleet and get the most out of it. I only wanted to point out that Sato won't be tied to a carrier fleet. You could run a couple MC30 with APT and some rogue squadron and it could get ugly fast, something to try out I'm sure.

That is correct but a squadron token is just as good to an A-Wing as taking a YT2400

To be honest, I'm confused to understand you're arguing about what here, or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Here's a recap of the discussion:

-Ginkapo said that MC30 should be great with Sato, being that they can have red and can take Ordnance upgrade, but lacked in the squadron part. He then proceded to list the possible carriers but mentioned that they would not be able to exploit Sato ability (at least not in the black dice department).

-I then reminded him that a lot of squadron with the Rogue ability was coming, so that a carrier was not really needed, that you can run a Sato list just fine without any carrier or that one should be enough.

-You then came in and said that you can already do that with Yt-2400

-I then replied that it's true that you can do it, but not everyone want to buy a lot of R&V just to be able to run a lot of squadron with Rogue.

-You then said that there is more option, that rogue is just a bonus

-Again I agreed with you. And reminded you that I just wanted to point out that soon enough, we'll be able to run a Sato fleet without taking a Carriers, that it will be possible to run a couple of MC30s with APT to fully expoit the long range black dice and still have a decent, independant squadron force.

-Then you said that an A-Wing with a squadron command is just as good as a YT-2400.

So again, I agree with you and never said the contrary. I'm aware that a squadron activated by a squadron command is just as good as one with Rogue, even better since they activate prior to the squadron phase. I guess I'll just repeat yet again the point I was trying to make: You can run a list with Sato without any carriers, you are not tied to ships with decent squadron value and that soon enough, it will not be just running a bunch of YT-2400, that there is more squadron coming with the rogue ability that will allow you to exploit your squadron to their fullest without ever needing to use a squadron command.

So yes, activating an A-Wing with a squadron token is just as good as taking a YT-2400, but it ties you a squadron command, what I said that could be avoided by multiple new toys coming our way.

Is it just mc30s which have red dice and ordnance upgrades?

Hmmm they are a bit expensive with a lack of squadron activations to really thrive by doing this.

The default carrier build wave 2 is mc80, yavaris, taintive. Even with rerolls there isnt much there to benefit from this, so maybe it is balanced really nicely.

What it really does is add another reason to consider squad defence when building squad light fleets.

I also like that it goes against default squad play. Time to spread squads out and not bunch them into balls.

Don't forget that we will get a Rogue X-Wing and Hera that will give Rogue to 2 squadron in range. It will soon be possible to do a decent squadron list without commiting too much to carriers. In a Sato Build and all those rogue possibilities, I think that one will be enough. And Phoenix Home should be able to play that part nicely!

Or just take YT-2400's

Exactly! But not everyone feels like buying multiple R&V packs to do it, or prefer to field more thematic list. Now they'll be able to do it.

Sure, but there are more options. You don't need Rogue though, that is just a bonus

Not saying that Rogue is mandatory, but if you don't want to invest in carriers, it sure helps to make a squadron heavy fleet and get the most out of it. I only wanted to point out that Sato won't be tied to a carrier fleet. You could run a couple MC30 with APT and some rogue squadron and it could get ugly fast, something to try out I'm sure.

That is correct but a squadron token is just as good to an A-Wing as taking a YT2400

To be honest, I'm confused to understand you're arguing about what here, or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Here's a recap of the discussion:

-Ginkapo said that MC30 should be great with Sato, being that they can have red and can take Ordnance upgrade, but lacked in the squadron part. He then proceded to list the possible carriers but mentioned that they would not be able to exploit Sato ability (at least not in the black dice department).

-I then reminded him that a lot of squadron with the Rogue ability was coming, so that a carrier was not really needed, that you can run a Sato list just fine without any carrier or that one should be enough.

-You then came in and said that you can already do that with Yt-2400

-I then replied that it's true that you can do it, but not everyone want to buy a lot of R&V just to be able to run a lot of squadron with Rogue.

-You then said that there is more option, that rogue is just a bonus

-Again I agreed with you. And reminded you that I just wanted to point out that soon enough, we'll be able to run a Sato fleet without taking a Carriers, that it will be possible to run a couple of MC30s with APT to fully expoit the long range black dice and still have a decent, independant squadron force.

-Then you said that an A-Wing with a squadron command is just as good as a YT-2400.

So again, I agree with you and never said the contrary. I'm aware that a squadron activated by a squadron command is just as good as one with Rogue, even better since they activate prior to the squadron phase. I guess I'll just repeat yet again the point I was trying to make: You can run a list with Sato without any carriers, you are not tied to ships with decent squadron value and that soon enough, it will not be just running a bunch of YT-2400, that there is more squadron coming with the rogue ability that will allow you to exploit your squadron to their fullest without ever needing to use a squadron command.

So yes, activating an A-Wing with a squadron token is just as good as taking a YT-2400, but it ties you a squadron command, what I said that could be avoided by multiple new toys coming our way.

You are correct.

My point was that there are different windows. A squadron command activated squadron is far better for sato than rogue is. Rogue would require you to preplan the movement and hope the activation order goes correctly while a squadron activated with a command can get into position right before the attack. No carrier needed but you have to be aware of the pros and cons.

If you are replacing a red blank with a black but not rerolling it, would it not be a black blank? I can see both sides of this argument, it's definitely FAQ material.

If you are replacing a red blank with a black but not rerolling it, would it not be a black blank? I can see both sides of this argument, it's definitely FAQ material.

What if you replace it with a blue?We will likely get an ambiguous clarification from the Pelta Article that will come out in 6 weeks

If you are replacing a red blank with a black but not rerolling it, would it not be a black blank? I can see both sides of this argument, it's definitely FAQ material.

What if you replaced a red double with a blue? A black hit/crit with a red? A blue Accuracy with a black?

You're not rerolling the red, you're rolling the black you just picked up.

You are correct.

My point was that there are different windows. A squadron command activated squadron is far better for sato than rogue is. Rogue would require you to preplan the movement and hope the activation order goes correctly while a squadron activated with a command can get into position right before the attack. No carrier needed but you have to be aware of the pros and cons.

Yes, I think that including one Carrier will be the way to go, or a transport with Comm Net to transfer squadron tokens.

For the Carrier part, it looks like the Phoenix Home will be the cheap carrier we're looking for: It has red dice, can take ordnance and have a squadron value of 3. So it can potencially shoot 4 black dice from its front arc with an APT. Not sure it has the place for an ordnance expert though.

Interestingly enough, I think that one way to go will be very Star Wars Rebels thematic:

Commander Sato in the Phoenix Home

Hera that gives Rogue to 2 other squadron (2 A-Wing looks like a perfect fit with their speed 5)

(And I think that we'll see Tycho in the third season, so including him is also thematic and works wonder)

Try to have to be first player so that you can tag for your first ship that activates, then when it's Phoenix Home turn, order your squadron to tag for your 4 black dice long range attack and exhaust some defense token before your strike.