Also, "I'll Show You the Dark Side". Doesn't say that Kylo has to be the one to assign the damage.

Grandfather and Grandson (ship or crew) team up.

The 0pt, Scum EPT is actually really good, but it has the same deal as Agent Kallus, and we don't need a "condition" for that biz.

Everyone I have ever seen that uses Kallus much has a token they put on the target ship. That's almost exactly what this EPT does.

We still haven't seen what the condition itself actually does either. There may be more to it than just what happens when a ship with 'A Score to Settle" attacks it.

Yup.

Biggest thing i hate about Ep7 is Kylo's attitude. I almost shut my tv off halfway through because he was pissing me off that bad (didnt see it in the theatres). Good god that guy just flips out...the part where he cut the crap out of the computer terminals with his lightsaber was funny but iirc that was also the first tantrum he had out of what over a DOZEN!?

Vader is a menacing and fearful individual. If his appearance doesnt make you shudder then his **** VOICE will, never mind what he will do if you dont cooperate. Feth Kylo.

edit: also, rats someone just pointed out vader wouldnt work with the condition. No grandpa and grandson shenanigans....lame

Rant mode

Kylo Ren is my favorite part of Episode 7 and my favorite new Star Wars movie villain since Palpatine. Why? Because he's different.

The movie fakes you out with someone who looks like Darth Vader, who's desperately trying to be like Darth Vader, but in reality he's the anti-Vader.

Just look at why the two wear masks. Darth Vader wears a mask because he was horribly mutilated and constantly requires a life support system . Kylo Ren? He wears a mask to look scarier, because underneath that mask he's a totally normal dude and he finds that pathetic.

Does that mean that Kylo Ren isn't dangerous? No. If anything, that makes him more dangerous, because instead of a self-assured, calculating man, he's a volatile bag of insecurities with a lightsaber. And unlike many other insecure villains in pop cultures, his insecurities are not portrayed sympathetically; he's despicable because of them. He's a man who has the potential for good in him and actively rejects it because of pride. He's a man who when given the chance for redemption murders his father in cold blood.

And I love that the writers took that direction with the character. It's a brave direction, especially with the adoration of Darth Vader in pop culture and the unfortunate reuse of ideas in Star Wars like Starkiller base, to make his self-pronounced successor a complete tool . A well-characterized, cool-looking tool, but a tool nonetheless.

So yeah, I like Kylo Ren. It would have been so easy to just make him Darth Vader v2, or even worse Darth Maul v2. Instead he's a glorious paper tiger.

The 0pt, Scum EPT is actually really good, but it has the same deal as Agent Kallus, and we don't need a "condition" for that biz.

Everyone I have ever seen that uses Kallus much has a token they put on the target ship. That's almost exactly what this EPT does.

We still haven't seen what the condition itself actually does either. There may be more to it than just what happens when a ship with 'A Score to Settle" attacks it.

I'm not saying that the token is unappreciated; I'm saying that these two cards could have easily been done in ways that don't require an entirely new mechanic. I'm sure they saw this as an opportunity to open up more design space, and maybe they have better condition cards coming down the pipe, but it seems a bit inelegant to me. Lame, even.

What about Determination, Chewie or Leebo ? Do they just roll their eyes at Kylo?

Yes they do, just like everyone else does.

Leebo and determination might roll their eyes, but Chewie doesn't. He shoots Kylo Ren in the gut with a bowcaster.

Kylo Ren is my favorite part of Episode 7 and my favorite new Star Wars movie villain since Palpatine. Why? Because he's different.

The movie fakes you out with someone who looks like Darth Vader, who's desperately trying to be like Darth Vader, but in reality he's the anti-Vader.

I don't know where I heard it but it seems like it fits well enough and I kind of hope it works out this way:

Luke is full of Dark Side tendencies but he tries very hard to stay on the Light Side.

Kylo Ren is going against his natural tendencies to embrace the Dark Side. He wants to do it but his nature makes it hard for him to just give in to the Dark Side.

When the Boba Fett crew card showed up, I made my opinion clear that it wasn't quite up to snuff for competitive play. Especially because I saw 4-L0M and Zuckuss at the same time. I was outright mocked by my X-Wing playing friends for this opinion. This forum and my local guys waived their hands in the air and rejoiced because the Boba Fett crew card was "the answer to Palpatine". I was told to that I was dead wrong and just needed to "try it".

We're a bit down the road now and I'm feeling a bit vindicated, though even as I type this I can feel the rush of forum goers who are about to tell me how good Boba Fett is and that I don't know what I'm talking about, despite that upgrade being nowhere to be seen at any top tables. Again, not saying he's unplayable or even bad, just that he's not good enough for competitive play.

All that having been said...the Boba Fett crew card is 20 times better than this Kylo Ren card. This is some of the jankest jank that ever janked. Boy is it bad. Wow, ...just the worst.

All that having been said...the Boba Fett crew card is 20 times better than this Kylo Ren card. This is some of the jankest jank that ever janked. Boy is it bad. Wow, ...just the worst.

Fett requires the ship he is on to deal a crit that deals a card instead of just hitting shields. Best case scenario for him booting Palpatine is that the Shuttle has 4 hull left, frequently it will have less. I've used Fett in the past and he's won a lot of games for me. I don't think I've ever used him on Palpatine.

Kylo Ren on the other hand requires any of your ships to have an uncanceled crit result when attacking the marked ship. Then, regardless of whether or not there are shields remaining, you deal them the face up pilot crit of your choosing. It may not be the most hyper competitive card but it's pretty solid.

The 0pt, Scum EPT is actually really good, but it has the same deal as Agent Kallus, and we don't need a "condition" for that biz.

Everyone I have ever seen that uses Kallus much has a token they put on the target ship. That's almost exactly what this EPT does.

We still haven't seen what the condition itself actually does either. There may be more to it than just what happens when a ship with 'A Score to Settle" attacks it.

I'm not saying that the token is unappreciated; I'm saying that these two cards could have easily been done in ways that don't require an entirely new mechanic. I'm sure they saw this as an opportunity to open up more design space, and maybe they have better condition cards coming down the pipe, but it seems a bit inelegant to me. Lame, even.

So far the two conditions that we've seen have effects that are lasting and complex. The condition that comes with the shuttle works with critical damage dealt to the target by any of your ships. The condition that comes with the Quad Jumper appears to give a bonus to the ship with the condition against the ship with the EPT.

I'm not sure how you would do either of those without something like conditions.

Kylo Ren on the other hand requires any of your ships to have an uncanceled crit result when attacking the marked ship. Then, regardless of whether or not there are shields remaining, you deal them the face up pilot crit of your choosing. It may not be the most hyper competitive card but it's pretty solid.

...you've got me. I thought you had to actually deal a face-up crit card in order for this to trigger, not just an uncancelled crit result, which can still land on shields. I am amending my previous assessment of this card from "jankest jank that ever janked" to "not good enough for competitive play".

Thanks for straightening me out.

Kylo Ren on the other hand requires any of your ships to have an uncanceled crit result when attacking the marked ship. Then, regardless of whether or not there are shields remaining, you deal them the face up pilot crit of your choosing. It may not be the most hyper competitive card but it's pretty solid.

...you've got me. I thought you had to actually deal a face-up crit card in order for this to trigger, not just an uncancelled crit result, which can still land on shields. I am amending my previous assessment of this card from "jankest jank that ever janked" to "not good enough for competitive play".

Thanks for straightening me out.

Yeah, it looked okay but kind of too situational for 3 points when I first read it. Once I reread it, it seemed like something that could be decent in the right list. In a meta where Rebel Regen is strong again, this is a solid counter.

and theres a difference between being unable to control your emotions and going to the dark side and having a bloody tantrum. Show me another Sith that would flipout/overeact like a 5year old over the simplest things other than Kylo. Vader never flipped out, he just had no patience so if something went wrong he killed whoever failed and did it himself.

Master Skywalker had its moments of tantrums as well, especially when his wife was involved. Though he was indeed most of the time cold, with sprinkles of pure rage.

Yup.

Biggest thing i hate about Ep7 is Kylo's attitude. I almost shut my tv off halfway through because he was pissing me off that bad (didnt see it in the theatres). Good god that guy just flips out...the part where he cut the crap out of the computer terminals with his lightsaber was funny but iirc that was also the first tantrum he had out of what over a DOZEN!?

Vader is a menacing and fearful individual. If his appearance doesnt make you shudder then his **** VOICE will, never mind what he will do if you dont cooperate. Feth Kylo.

edit: also, rats someone just pointed out vader wouldnt work with the condition. No grandpa and grandson shenanigans....lame

Rant mode

Kylo Ren is my favorite part of Episode 7 and my favorite new Star Wars movie villain since Palpatine. Why? Because he's different.

The movie fakes you out with someone who looks like Darth Vader, who's desperately trying to be like Darth Vader, but in reality he's the anti-Vader.

Just look at why the two wear masks. Darth Vader wears a mask because he was horribly mutilated and constantly requires a life support system . Kylo Ren? He wears a mask to look scarier, because underneath that mask he's a totally normal dude and he finds that pathetic.

Does that mean that Kylo Ren isn't dangerous? No. If anything, that makes him more dangerous, because instead of a self-assured, calculating man, he's a volatile bag of insecurities with a lightsaber. And unlike many other insecure villains in pop cultures, his insecurities are not portrayed sympathetically; he's despicable because of them. He's a man who has the potential for good in him and actively rejects it because of pride. He's a man who when given the chance for redemption murders his father in cold blood.

And I love that the writers took that direction with the character. It's a brave direction, especially with the adoration of Darth Vader in pop culture and the unfortunate reuse of ideas in Star Wars like Starkiller base, to make his self-pronounced successor a complete tool . A well-characterized, cool-looking tool, but a tool nonetheless.

So yeah, I like Kylo Ren. It would have been so easy to just make him Darth Vader v2, or even worse Darth Maul v2. Instead he's a glorious paper tiger.

You say this now, but when when they reveal that Han sacrifices himself (or faked his death) to give his son the chance to infiltrate the first order.

Besides that: I love the pathetic little guy. I just can not take him seriously as main antagonist. And Maul is way more interesting than Vader alone, the clone wars and Son of Dathomir made sure of that. Anakin's way to become Vader is still my favorite character progression in all of star wars, because the dealt so good with it in the series. The movies failed in that regard, but TCWs gave us story worthy of Anakin Skywalker and worthy of Darth Vader.

Yup.

Biggest thing i hate about Ep7 is Kylo's attitude. I almost shut my tv off halfway through because he was pissing me off that bad (didnt see it in the theatres). Good god that guy just flips out...the part where he cut the crap out of the computer terminals with his lightsaber was funny but iirc that was also the first tantrum he had out of what over a DOZEN!?

Vader is a menacing and fearful individual. If his appearance doesnt make you shudder then his **** VOICE will, never mind what he will do if you dont cooperate. Feth Kylo.

edit: also, rats someone just pointed out vader wouldnt work with the condition. No grandpa and grandson shenanigans....lame

Rant mode

Kylo Ren is my favorite part of Episode 7 and my favorite new Star Wars movie villain since Palpatine. Why? Because he's different.

The movie fakes you out with someone who looks like Darth Vader, who's desperately trying to be like Darth Vader, but in reality he's the anti-Vader.

Just look at why the two wear masks. Darth Vader wears a mask because he was horribly mutilated and constantly requires a life support system . Kylo Ren? He wears a mask to look scarier, because underneath that mask he's a totally normal dude and he finds that pathetic.

Does that mean that Kylo Ren isn't dangerous? No. If anything, that makes him more dangerous, because instead of a self-assured, calculating man, he's a volatile bag of insecurities with a lightsaber. And unlike many other insecure villains in pop cultures, his insecurities are not portrayed sympathetically; he's despicable because of them. He's a man who has the potential for good in him and actively rejects it because of pride. He's a man who when given the chance for redemption murders his father in cold blood.

And I love that the writers took that direction with the character. It's a brave direction, especially with the adoration of Darth Vader in pop culture and the unfortunate reuse of ideas in Star Wars like Starkiller base, to make his self-pronounced successor a complete tool . A well-characterized, cool-looking tool, but a tool nonetheless.

So yeah, I like Kylo Ren. It would have been so easy to just make him Darth Vader v2, or even worse Darth Maul v2. Instead he's a glorious paper tiger.

You say this now, but when when they reveal that Han sacrifices himself (or faked his death) to give his son the chance to infiltrate the first order.

Besides that: I love the pathetic little guy. I just can not take him seriously as main antagonist. And Maul is way more interesting than Vader alone, the clone wars and Son of Dathomir made sure of that. Anakin's way to become Vader is still my favorite character progression in all of star wars, because the dealt so good with it in the series. The movies failed in that regard, but TCWs gave us story worthy of Anakin Skywalker and worthy of Darth Vader.

When referring to Maul, I'm strictly talking about movie Maul, where he's nothing more than a cool-looking adversary with no characterization. Maul's been fantastic in the EU, and his interaction with Ezra in Rebels was my favorite part of the show.

He's going to find his place. Enough good imperial crew slots to see play there and the combo slots available on the ship version are staggering.

Yup.

Biggest thing i hate about Ep7 is Kylo's attitude. I almost shut my tv off halfway through because he was pissing me off that bad (didnt see it in the theatres). Good god that guy just flips out...the part where he cut the crap out of the computer terminals with his lightsaber was funny but iirc that was also the first tantrum he had out of what over a DOZEN!?

Vader is a menacing and fearful individual. If his appearance doesnt make you shudder then his **** VOICE will, never mind what he will do if you dont cooperate. Feth Kylo.

edit: also, rats someone just pointed out vader wouldnt work with the condition. No grandpa and grandson shenanigans....lame

Rant mode

Kylo Ren is my favorite part of Episode 7 and my favorite new Star Wars movie villain since Palpatine. Why? Because he's different.

The movie fakes you out with someone who looks like Darth Vader, who's desperately trying to be like Darth Vader, but in reality he's the anti-Vader.

Just look at why the two wear masks. Darth Vader wears a mask because he was horribly mutilated and constantly requires a life support system . Kylo Ren? He wears a mask to look scarier, because underneath that mask he's a totally normal dude and he finds that pathetic.

Does that mean that Kylo Ren isn't dangerous? No. If anything, that makes him more dangerous, because instead of a self-assured, calculating man, he's a volatile bag of insecurities with a lightsaber. And unlike many other insecure villains in pop cultures, his insecurities are not portrayed sympathetically; he's despicable because of them. He's a man who has the potential for good in him and actively rejects it because of pride. He's a man who when given the chance for redemption murders his father in cold blood.

And I love that the writers took that direction with the character. It's a brave direction, especially with the adoration of Darth Vader in pop culture and the unfortunate reuse of ideas in Star Wars like Starkiller base, to make his self-pronounced successor a complete tool . A well-characterized, cool-looking tool, but a tool nonetheless.

So yeah, I like Kylo Ren. It would have been so easy to just make him Darth Vader v2, or even worse Darth Maul v2. Instead he's a glorious paper tiger.

You say this now, but when when they reveal that Han sacrifices himself (or faked his death) to give his son the chance to infiltrate the first order.

Besides that: I love the pathetic little guy. I just can not take him seriously as main antagonist. And Maul is way more interesting than Vader alone, the clone wars and Son of Dathomir made sure of that. Anakin's way to become Vader is still my favorite character progression in all of star wars, because the dealt so good with it in the series. The movies failed in that regard, but TCWs gave us story worthy of Anakin Skywalker and worthy of Darth Vader.

When referring to Maul, I'm strictly talking about movie Maul, where he's nothing more than a cool-looking adversary with no characterization. Maul's been fantastic in the EU, and his interaction with Ezra in Rebels was my favorite part of the show.

That's not EU/Legends that is canon as well. Personally I liked his Shadow Collective Arc best, it's a shame they we get the last part only in Book form as disney canceled the last episodes to push out rebels faster.

Hmmm

Barring the awesomeness of EH shuttles, you can get coordinate firing off at ps 8 with VI Kylo

Now that's worth a look esp when working with lower ps (defenders?)

In a meta where advanced targeting computer and the rear admiral are decent choices, kylo will be excellent. Whether that's what the meta will look like one wave ten hits? Depends on a lot of things, including whether there are jump master nerfs and whether teroch and slicers have an impact and...

And I love that the writers took that direction with the character. It's a brave direction, especially with the adoration of Darth Vader in pop culture and the unfortunate reuse of ideas in Star Wars like Starkiller base, to make his self-pronounced successor a complete tool . A well-characterized, cool-looking tool, but a tool nonetheless.

So yeah, I like Kylo Ren. It would have been so easy to just make him Darth Vader v2, or even worse Darth Maul v2. Instead he's a glorious paper tiger.

Also, unlike Vader Kylo is, well. A real-world villain. He's Elliot Rodger. He's Darth Gator. He is pathetic and he is contemptible and that is precisely why he is dangerous.

Wouldn't wampa be great with kylo ability since you don't need to be the ship that uses kylo to make the crit?

Also sad that kylo doesn't flip over a system upgrade to do something

Not really. Wampa doesn't do critical damage. You'd be better of with Winged Gundark.

EDIT: I never thought I would ever read, let alone type that last sentence.

New meta: Winged Gundark.

I double triple infinity DARE you to take Winged Gundark to a tournament.

Ren is not so bad. You dont need to bypass shields for Kylo's ability. Just an uncancelled crit result, which just so happens to be Vader's TIE specialty, adding a crit every time he attacks.

OGP + FCS + Mangler + Ren

Vader + Adaptability + ATC + EU

Colzet + ATC

Academy

Three ships capable of crit damage every time they attack. FCS allows shuttle to action for Ren and still mod attack with Mangler. Playing high PS ships? Give em the damage cockpit. Playing against Dengaroo or Dash? Give him blinded pilot and have Colzet flip it up EVERY ROUND so he can never attack. Toss Shaken Pilot on Ryad (or any defender) and use Colzet to flip it up every round so she can never do a straight maneuver. Use the academy tie to cause damage with Stunned Pilot everytime it blocks a ship, like a jumpmaster.

Ren is not so bad. You dont need to bypass shields for Kylo's ability. Just an uncancelled crit result, which just so happens to be Vader's TIE specialty, adding a crit every time he attacks.

Does Kylo's condition bypass shields or just happen when the defending ship would be dealt a crit card anyways? Seems iffy to me.

Seems like if you have Colzet on the board it's blinded pilot period. Taking an opponent's ship out of the game is naughty. Maybe a bit much so.

Ren is not so bad. You dont need to bypass shields for Kylo's ability. Just an uncancelled crit result, which just so happens to be Vader's TIE specialty, adding a crit every time he attacks.

Does Kylo's condition bypass shields or just happen when the defending ship would be dealt a crit card anyways? Seems iffy to me.

It says when they are dealt critical damage. Critical damage is anytime there is an uncancelled crit result or text says deal critical damage. In general, it hits shield tokens, but this says deal the card when they suffer critical damage. Sounds like it works thru shields to me and they get the card shields or not.

Ren is not so bad. You dont need to bypass shields for Kylo's ability. Just an uncancelled crit result, which just so happens to be Vader's TIE specialty, adding a crit every time he attacks.

Does Kylo's condition bypass shields or just happen when the defending ship would be dealt a crit card anyways? Seems iffy to me.

It says when they are dealt critical damage. Critical damage is anytime there is an uncancelled crit result or text says deal critical damage. In general, it hits shield tokens, but this says deal the card when they suffer critical damage. Sounds like it works thru shields to me and they get the card shields or not.

However on the Timing Chart for Attacks it says "remove shield tokens to cancel [kaboom] results". In the rules reference it says "If the defender was hit, it suffers one damage for each uncanceled [boom] result and one critical damage for each uncanceled [kaboom] result." Am I missing something because I'm still thinking this means it does not go through shields.