The scale on ALL ship models are "wrong" and PERFECT. I mean, did anyone want a big ol' wobbly bat falling over on the play-mat?

Actually, when I first saw TFA (and every time since) I have never thought "that thing is huge/too big for x-wing". When Kylo walks down the landing ramp, it did seem smaller than when I first saw it flying- but only the wings seemed 'huge'.

The only scale problem I ever had was that the HWK-290 looked a bit too small for a freighter- but then, I had never seen a good reference for the Moldy Crow.

Perspective is a b*** gentlemen, you cannot perform measurements on picture with perspective.

True, you cannot measure precisely, but you can approximate.

This picture is the one I have found with least perspective:

Actually, that picture has *more* perspective distortion than the others. If you check the bases, there's clearly a fugue point (as in: the base's sides do not appear parallel), whereas in the provided picture I used the opposite sides of the base are practically parallel. It's an axonometric view, meaning the main perspective distortion will be axis foreshortening due to the angle,which can actually be calculated, tho I didn't find it useful to do it, since we don't have the base of the ship anyway, so you cannot escape a large error anyway.

The height of the Upsilon shuttle wing is: 256/148*0.08*270 m = 37.3 m which is close to the 37.2 m official wing height with wing extended.

Why is this even a thing people worry about?

The scales are known to be adjusted for game suitability.

Does it affect how many dice you roll? No? Move along.

The scales are known to be adjusted for game suitability.

That's not true.

Why do we use models at all, flying bases alone wouldn't affect how many dice we roll

Upsilon-class command shuttle

Technical specifications

Height/depth: 37.2 meters (with wings extended)

YT-1300 light freighter

Technical specifications

Length: 34.75 meters

Here's my own results based on a different approach. I used autocad's align command to scale your picture to the Millenium Falcon's known scale. Based on that, considering that Epsilon has its "wings extended", and that height is measured as a projection from wingtip height to base (unseen, but approximated), I found the miniature would represent a 26.41m height in normal Xwing scale (1/270).

Because we know the shuttle is supposed to be 37.2m in height, tho, we calculate

26.41 = 270

37.2 = x

And we get an X = 380.38.

Thus, the shuttle's scale would be 1/380, which is rather close to epic (1/350) scale, and all inaccuracies considered (from the picture, perspective, photoshopping, approximated base location and measuring), 1/350 might very well be the intended scale for this model.

I did that with little sleep at 5 AM and then went back to bed.

I somehow completely missed (cut/paste) that they weren't using length.

All of those calculations are based on length of it being 37.2 meters, and wrong.

My license has laps, why don't you just measure the Batwing the same

way that you did the Falcon? I mean I made sure the bases were the same size.

You went too far on the front of the Falcon, BTW.

now that I think it through that can't be right either, you've assumed

your 24.41 m is 270 scale to get your 380 scale?

Here's another problem, Height has to be measured from the underside of the

hull of the ship and you measured from the top completely missing the body.

(I have to redo all the calculations below... Done.)

I don't know if you've recognized it but I've been using Pythagoras theorem

which I believe cancels out the perspective problem since it's done for both.

And then I'm working with ratios.

Upsilon-class command shuttle

Technical specifications

Height/depth: 37.2 meters (with wings extended)

YT-1300 light freighter

Technical specifications

Length: 34.75 meters

Here's my own results based on a different approach. I used autocad's align command to scale your picture to the Millenium Falcon's known scale. Based on that, considering that Epsilon has its "wings extended", and that height is measured as a projection from wingtip height to base (unseen, but approximated), I found the miniature would represent a 26.41m height in normal Xwing scale (1/270).

Because we know the shuttle is supposed to be 37.2m in height, tho, we calculate

26.41 = 270

37.2 = x

And we get an X = 380.38.

Thus, the shuttle's scale would be 1/380, which is rather close to epic (1/350) scale, and all inaccuracies considered (from the picture, perspective, photoshopping, approximated base location and measuring), 1/350 might very well be the intended scale for this model.

I did that with little sleep 5 AM and then went back to bed.

I somehow completely missed that they weren't using length (cut/paste).

All of those calculations are based on length of it being 37.2 meters, and wrong.

My license has laps, why don't you just measure the Batwing the same

way that you did the Falcon? I mean I made sure the bases were the same size.

You went too far on the front of the Falcon, BTW.

now that I think it through that can't be right either, you've assumed

your 24.41 m is 270 scale to get your 380 scale?

I don't know if you've recognized it but I've been using Pythagoras theorem

which I believe cancels out the perspective problem since it's done for both.

And then I'm working with ratios.

111 x 119 px ... 162.72 px length Ren's shuttle

226 px height

162.72 px = X

226 px = 37.2 m

X = (162.72 x 37.2)/ 226 = 26.784 m length Ren's shuttle

144 x 249 px ... 287.64 px length Falcon

162.72 px = X

287.64 px = 128.7 mm

X = (162.72 x 128.7)/ 287.64 = 72.8 mm length Ren's shuttle

34.75m / 128.7 mm = 270 scale Falcon

26.78 m / 72.8 mm = 367.8 scale Ren Shuttle

90 m / 228 mm = 395 scale GR75

(Final Answer...)

Closer to small Epic than standard.

Notice the coordinate action icon? That kinda makes it a small Epic anyway.

(Also, let's just wait until we get it on our play-mats & we can measure it with a precision laser measuring-tape thingy. THEN let's debate heavily on X-wing scale)

Can someone put Kylo's shuttle next to the new Bird of Pray? I think you may be surprised

Are those production models or just a master anyway? Masters are usually a little larger than production minis.

Does it really matter? I have played wargames for many years and my Roman legions, Zulu impis or even Samurai army are not to scale....I wish they were but then my table would have to be just a little bigger to say the least. A 15mm figure can represent 10, 20 or even 40 men. Never had anyone spend time correcting or debating the accuracy of unit numbers versus model count. We play it for the fun. So when it comes to XWing I play it for the ships, not bothered about whether the pretend ship matches the pretend measurements of the pretend ship in the pretend blueprints.

There is a very happy 8 year old sitting next to me because now he can play with his favourite baddie ship against daddy's goodies. I don't think he's too worried about scale!

Does it really matter? I have played wargames for many years and my Roman legions, Zulu impis or even Samurai army are not to scale....I wish they were but then my table would have to be just a little bigger to say the least. A 15mm figure can represent 10, 20 or even 40 men. Never had anyone spend time correcting or debating the accuracy of unit numbers versus model count. We play it for the fun. So when it comes to XWing I play it for the ships, not bothered about whether the pretend ship matches the pretend measurements of the pretend ship in the pretend blueprints.

There is a very happy 8 year old sitting next to me because now he can play with his favourite baddie ship against daddy's goodies. I don't think he's too worried about scale!

Entirely that.

I can get the fixation for games with a more historical context (WW2, Civil War, Roman legions, etc.), but in a fictional setting with fictional (and often wildly contradictory sources) armies, I just can't be moved to care unless the discrepancy is vastly egregious (like a CR90 sized SSD).

why don't you just measure the Batwing the same

way that you did the Falcon? I mean I made sure the bases were the same size.

Because I didn't have the length measurement for the Batwing...? would have been easier if I did, hahah..

Here's another problem, Height has to be measured from the underside of the

hull of the ship and you measured from the top completely missing the body.

hm yea, I just measured from the wingtips to a presumed position of the underside, corresponding to the wing position lengthwise. So, very prone to error, but I opted to err for a smaller height.

34.75m / 128.7 mm = 270 scale Falcon

21.465 m / 72.8 mm = 295 scale Ren Shuttle

I had the same initial impression as other folks -- the Upsilon shuttle seemed a little small. However, earlier today I went back and watched some of the actual scenes from the movie and the scale seems spot on: the shuttle isn't actually all that large, especially the cockpit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYWx5aHQcXI

The loading ramp is really only large enough for two people to walk down together, which makes it line up pretty well with the dimensions of the cockpit on the Millenium Falcon. Still, it looks small to me compared to the TIE fighter cockpit -- not sure if it that's due to my imagination, other scale discrepancies, or what. Can't recall if there's ever a scene of the shuttle next to TIE fighters in the movie.

No, the Upsilon shuttle is to perfect 1/270 scale.

Perspective is a b*** gentlemen, you cannot perform measurements on picture with perspective.

This picture is the one I have found with least perspective:

Measuring the width of the plastic large ship base, at the point where the peg hits the plastic I get 148 pixels wide.

Measuring the height of the right wing (from our perspective) from bottom to top (along the back side furthest away) I get 256 pixels.

As the width of a large ship plastic base is 8 cm.

The height of the Upsilon shuttle wing is: 256/148*0.08*270 m = 37.3 m which is close to the 37.2 m official wing height with wing extended.

/Thread

Thanks for proving it's in scale (and for measuring actual height). I was getting worried for a minute there.

No, the Upsilon shuttle is to perfect 1/270 scale.

As the width of a large ship plastic base is 8 cm.

The height of the Upsilon shuttle wing is: 256/148*0.08*270 m = 37.3 m which is close to the 37.2 m official wing height with wing extended.

/Thread

That was my assumption - that it was height with wings extended upward but not splayed out.

No, the Upsilon shuttle is to perfect 1/270 scale.

Perspective is a b*** gentlemen, you cannot perform measurements on picture with perspective.

This picture is the one I have found with least perspective:

Measuring the width of the plastic large ship base, at the point where the peg hits the plastic I get 148 pixels wide.

Measuring the height of the right wing (from our perspective) from bottom to top (along the back side furthest away) I get 256 pixels.

As the width of a large ship plastic base is 8 cm.

The height of the Upsilon shuttle wing is: 256/148*0.08*270 m = 37.3 m which is close to the 37.2 m official wing height with wing extended.

/Thread

Which is also the exact length / height of the space shuttle orbiter. I wonder if that was deliberate on the part of the design team?

That was my assumption - that it was height with wings extended upward but not splayed out.

IIRC in the movie they also retracted/extended lengthwise.

Yeah, doesn't the upper half of the wing retract into the lower half for landing?

IIRC in the movie they also retracted/extended lengthwise.

either way, it seems the shuttle is not that far off from normal scale, so that's good.

First?

Should I remind you the horribly cramped YV666? Or maybe the oversized Firespray mini? Or better yet a X-BOX-HUGE Aggressor?

Nah, certainly the first is Ren xD

How's the Firespray too big?

The models are the precise size provided by Lucasfilm, who are the only ones who know the exact cutest sizes. Wookieepedia is often incorrect and visual guides are historically error ridden. The models we get are correct because they're sized by the people who know best. The models reflect the canonical size of most of the ships. That said, the images in the article are almost assuredly not to scale with eachother, but the models will be.

Went to a convention panel with Jay Little, original designer of the X wing Core Set. He discussed that in the process of producing the models for the Core Set, Lucasfilm had to do research and revisit the original archives to determine the size of a TIE Fighter in relation to an X wing, because you cannot make an accurate comparison based on photos or the films. This would have been as late as 2011. In general, for most products they produce, they have not gone out of the way for products to be in scale with one another, with a few exceptions. Little went on to say that process continues with each ship released. They address the sizing of each expansion on a case by case basis, as to be honest, the "official canon size" of a most of the ships has changed over time. The models we get are the official canon size of the ships at the time they are produced in view of Lucasfilm, and all other sources are secondary, although it SHOULD coincide with the dimensions in current auxiliary materials like the visual guides or cross section books, for the most part, as these are also now fully approved by Lucasfilm also.

Everything is to scale as determined by Lucasfilm.

Well yeah, but LFL's lengths have historically been bollocks, such as the official length of the A-Wing - way too big compared to the Y-Wing.

Can someone put Kylo's shuttle next to the new Bird of Pray? I think you may be surprised

K'vort or B'rel class?

Then there is the all NEW BOP (Bird Of Prey Class) ...because wizzies are dumb... These are ALL BOP's.

According to measurements I took from the Star Wars Audio Drama produced for NPR in the early 1980s, the FFG models for the X-Wing, TIE Fighter, and Falcon are all properly in scale for gaming. However, the FFG model of the CR-90 lacks the principal solar fin described in the battle with the Devastator, so I'm really not sure how we could trust them if they can't get such an important starship component right.

Well yeah, but LFL's lengths have historically been bollocks, such as the official length of the A-Wing - way too big compared to the Y-Wing.

A-wing was never consistently portrayed.

And now that Rebels is out - the much more roomy cockpits shown in that (compared to that of the "4.8m A-Wing" representation) imply a ship around the FFG size.

the FFG model of the CR-90 lacks the principal solar fin described in the battle with the Devastator, so I'm really not sure how we could trust them if they can't get such an important starship component right.

Where's the solar fin on the Lucasfilm model?

Can someone put Kylo's shuttle next to the new Bird of Pray? I think you may be surprised

K'vort or B'rel class?

Then there is the all NEW BOP (Bird Of Prey Class) ...because wizzies are dumb... These are ALL BOP's.

Yeah - especially compare it to the Quadjumper in that pic.

It dwarfs the Quadjumper, here - looks like you could easily place two Quadjumpers back-to-back in the body of the Upsilon.

Then look at the pic, above - Quadjumper mini looks quite a bit larger than the Upsilon.

No doubt, this is definitely in the wrong scale...

Keep in mind perspective; the image in the OP has the Quadjumper a lot closer to the lens.

I don't think perspective is making THAT much of a difference.

really?

no scaling applied here. just moving the Quadjumper base up next to the Upsilon base.