Can Emon Azzameen drop a Cargo Token with a hard turn 3?
I'd say 'no', just given the Debris reference cards note that it can ' sometimes be dropped in the same manner as bombs'. Fairly specifically meaning it ISN'T a bomb (which Amon refers to using), but rather something that just sometimes (in the way outlined on the card) acts like one.
No. You can throw an apple in the same manner as a handgranate. That doesn't mean that the apple will explode.
No. You can throw an apple in the same manner as a handgranate. That doesn't mean that the apple will explode.
More like... You can throw an apple like you can throw a grenade, but you can't put an apple in a grenade launcher.
No. You can throw an apple in the same manner as a handgranate. That doesn't mean that the apple will explode.
More like... You can throw an apple like you can throw a grenade, but you can't put an apple in a grenade launcher.
WELL, WE'LL SEE ABOUT THAT!!!
I would say no. Not because the "sometimes dropped like bombs", but because if the designers wanted to have this interaction they would have stated it.
The only thing that actually would point to "yes" is the "may sometimes be dropped like bombs" because that refers the the dropping mechanic. When they get dropped they always gets dropped like bombs, but you naturally can place them still like other obstacles in the setup stage of the game. ;-)
Anyway: Lost opportunity imho. Maybe we get a faq for that.
It was just the (non-rules) article that said it was dropped "like a bomb" right? I don't see anything on the actual cards, either the upgrade itself or the rules card explaining dropping it, that indicates it is in any way related to bombs.
If the rules card said it was dropped exactly like a bomb, there would be a case for Amon to do his thing, but absent that he has to follow the rules same as everyone else.
It's clearly 'no'.
Emon's ability reads "When dropping a bomb ..." (emphasis mine.)
Dropping an obstacle (in this case cargo) is not dropping a bomb. It is merely done in the same manner as dropping a bomb.
Cargo =/= bomb.
Therefore, Emon's ability does not apply.
It doesn't say it's a bomb and Azzameen says..... ****..... Dr Zoidberg said exactly what I was going to say....
No. You can throw an apple in the same manner as a handgranate. That doesn't mean that the apple will explode.
More like... You can throw an apple like you can throw a grenade, but you can't put an apple in a grenade launcher.
Of course you can.
The average Apple will easily fit (from my extensive knowledge of crap action movies).
Won't do much though, and certainly won't help when a t-1000 pops through a wormhole.
It's been covered
Rigged cargo hold is an illicit; not a bomb
I wish he could, but I agree with the "no's"
Why would the rules card have something so pointless and unnecessarily ambiguous as the words, " sometimes " without any further explanation as to when that is?
As far as I'm concerned, when the rules card says it can be dropped "in the same manner as a bomb," I'm dropping it like I would a bomb. That includes pilot abilities.
Why would the rules card have something so pointless and unnecessarily ambiguous as the words, " sometimes " without any further explanation as to when that is?
Because sometimes they are placed at the start of the battle as a players obstacle choice.
Why would the rules card have something so pointless and unnecessarily ambiguous as the words, " sometimes " without any further explanation as to when that is?
Because sometimes they are placed at the start of the battle as a players obstacle choice.
But these aren't those tokens. These are rigged cargo tokens that are never placed at the start of the battle; they are only dropped "in the same manner as bombs." They follow the same overlap rules as obstacles, but they are a unique token. That wording in the rule card serves no purpose being there as it doesn't recognize the rigged cargo's unique status, and only leads to conflating the two while preventing a clear, thorough description of its intended implementation.
Rules Lawyering aside ...
We won't know for sure until the FAQ is updated. After all, even FFG card and article writers don't know right now ...
Why would the rules card have something so pointless and unnecessarily ambiguous as the words, " sometimes " without any further explanation as to when that is?
Because sometimes they are placed at the start of the battle as a players obstacle choice.
But these aren't those tokens. These are rigged cargo tokens that are never placed at the start of the battle; they are only dropped "in the same manner as bombs." They follow the same overlap rules as obstacles, but they are a unique token. That wording in the rule card serves no purpose being there as it doesn't recognize the rigged cargo's unique status, and only leads to conflating the two while preventing a clear, thorough description of its intended implementation.
The card that says "sometimes" is titled "Debris Cloud Tokens." Furthermore, it says "Obstacles can sometimes be dropped in the same manner as bombs."
Obstacles are often placed at the beginning of the match and sometimes dropped like bombs.
All obstacles are represented by tokens. The RRG says "When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps an obstacle token..."
The rules for the Rigged Cargo Chute are on a completely different card called "Using Cargo."
Why would the rules card have something so pointless and unnecessarily ambiguous as the words, " sometimes " without any further explanation as to when that is?
Because sometimes they are placed at the start of the battle as a players obstacle choice.
But these aren't those tokens. These are rigged cargo tokens that are never placed at the start of the battle; they are only dropped "in the same manner as bombs." They follow the same overlap rules as obstacles, but they are a unique token. That wording in the rule card serves no purpose being there as it doesn't recognize the rigged cargo's unique status, and only leads to conflating the two while preventing a clear, thorough description of its intended implementation.
The "same manner as bombs" only means, that you use the same method you use for dropping bombs (maneuver template and rear guide). They used that wording to save space. Dropping the cargo is explained in detail on the Rigged Cargo reference card, and it does not say anything about bombs.
Good god this does not need an FAQ! OR a debate!
Is the debris token a bomb?
Stop, before you answer. Think about it again, read the card.
Does it say it IS a bomb? Does the upgrade fill the BOMB slot?
No.
So no.
If I seem irritated, it is because the culture here seems to think a bloated, ungodly FAQ/errata list is a GOOD thing. It is not. Every new player that has to look at the FAQ is going to be put off, to some extent, as it is.
I guess I should expected this to get unnecessaryily complicated
Look, it's very simple
Emon specifies when dropping a BOMB
Not "like a bomb"; a BOMB
is rigged cargo hold a bomb?
No?
No emon ability for you
And God help you if you try to Sabine the rebel Yt debris
Edited by ficklegreendiceGood god this does not need an FAQ! OR a debate!
Don't worry, ~90% of the rule debates are about clean-cut cases, like this one.
Good god this does not need an FAQ! OR a debate!
Don't worry, ~90% of the rule debates are about clean-cut cases, like this one.
While this is true, this does not stop them from winding up in the FAQ on occasion.
Sometimes, X-Wing follows the "squeaky wheel" process.
As far as I'm concerned, when the rules card says it can be dropped "in the same manner as a bomb," I'm dropping it like I would a bomb. That includes pilot abilities.
Sure... You can make the rules do whatever you want when you completely disregard the English language .
Tell us, what a part of these things not being bombs, and Emon's ability applying to bombs, to you find difficult to understand?
As far as I'm concerned, when the rules card says it can be dropped "in the same manner as a bomb," I'm dropping it like I would a bomb. That includes pilot abilities.
Sure... You can make the rules do whatever you want when you completely disregard the English language .
Tell us, what a part of these things not being bombs, and Emon's ability applying to bombs, to you find difficult to understand?
No need to be rude.
They're not inherently bombs, but they are dropped in the same manner. The Using Bombs rule card states that they are dropped using a one straight template, yet is overridden by several pilot abilities in this game. FFG explicitly states that their written rules are overruled by the text on pilot and upgrade cards.
When a new card is dropped in the same manner as a bomb , and a pilot ability alters the manner in which bombs are dropped , I would say that applies.