Everyone here is saying how good this card is against stress inducing lists, which lets be honest, is mostly Imperials but Dengar / Manaroo and Triple Scouts already hand them their back sides as it is. Hell, just the Zuckuss crew card is enough to make even Defender's or ANYTHING that relies on its agility dice to survive cry salty tears.

I don't think this card is worth changing what already works.

That's not true, though, really. Zuckuss didn't help kill Soontir in the final of US Nats.

I can't comment on the US Nats but speaking from my personal experience, Dengar / Manaroo versus Imperial aces is the most unfun game I have ever played (for and against) because it counters so much of what that list needs to survive.

Now we have more tools available, from the same faction no less.

Would it have killed them to rotate the stuff so we can read it?

Photography is an art. And photograph a job with 3 years required education, because it is that hard to not hold the camera the wrong way.

Would it have killed them to rotate the stuff so we can read it?

aww don't blame the guys

they got a lot of exciting stuff to do today

I do blame you, you posted it in that way.

Especially as turning a picture is literally one click these days in windows

Would it have killed you to crop and zoom so we can actually read it???

Everyone here is saying how good this card is against stress inducing lists, which lets be honest, is mostly Imperials but Dengar / Manaroo and Triple Scouts already hand them their back sides as it is. Hell, just the Zuckuss crew card is enough to make even Defender's or ANYTHING that relies on its agility dice to survive cry salty tears.

I don't think this card is worth changing what already works.

That's not true, though, really. Zuckuss didn't help kill Soontir in the final of US Nats.

I can't comment on the US Nats but speaking from my personal experience, Dengar / Manaroo versus Imperial aces is the most unfun game I have ever played (for and against) because it counters so much of what that list needs to survive.

Now we have more tools available, from the same faction no less.

vs a lot of ships Zuckuss is horrible, but Soontir in particular is frequently so well protected by tokens as well as his green dice that Zuckuss alone doesn't overwhelmingly move the odds. If you get a Range 1 fully-modified Dengar shot against Soontir you're still odds-against to get any damage though.

Gunner is a lot stronger against Soontir than Zuckuss.

Yeah. Cmon. Can we please increase the volume on this: we do not like just hard counters to small ships!

There is a decent amount of variety amongst large base ships.

Palp Aces is top dog and it's mostly small based.

There are things that are wrong with this game, and large base ships being good isn't the problem.

But of course, Imperial players and their greed. Most of the reason you see a bunch of large bases ships doing well in this game is because of Palp Aces.

Meta filled with invincible ships? Better take a party bus. Or an autoblaster turret Ghost. Or I better go with Dengaroo, won't be able to ever hit any of my opponent's invincible ships unless I use Zuckuss.

Can I take Bombers or Punishers or K-Wings or Y-Wings and load them up with ordnance and kill aces that way? Nope, aces will just dodge my arcs and abuse the low PS TL acquisition problem or PS kill a fragile bomber. Only ordnance platforms that have a chance against Palp Aces are Jumpmasters, better use those.Palp Aces is responsible for the dominance of large base ships that your complain about. They're the only ships that can deal with Palp Aces. I would happily put quad PS 4 TIE Bomber down on the table if it wasn't for Palp Aces.

So following up on your last statement: What would you equip those quad PS4 Tie Bombers with? Long range scanners/and? [/size]And will they still not just get hammered by Dengaroo, Brobots, the Partybus with entourage, quad TLT-thug, or for that matter tripple Uboats? [/size]

Gamma Squadron with Homing Missiles, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips or LRS. Four of these.

We out PS TLT Y-Wings and U-Boats and the PS 2 version of the party bus. We have the capability to just wipe one at higher PS.

Party bus is only really strong against aces, where each damage done to Soontir is worth almost 12 points and there are a bunch of tokens to punch through. The party bus against something like a Bomber is just a better than average 3 die attack.

Brobots IDK.

Dengaroo probably wins here, but you do have a decent enough alpha strike to potentially bust through Dengar.

I have actually tried to get a 4 bomber list working, and I found that even with a strong alpha strike that takes out a TLT-thug and heavily damages another, or one Scout for that matter. The dial of the Bomber is so abysmal, that it is **** impossible to finish the job. Especially LRS kept me from prohibitively getting sufficient range to get that second target lock. And it felt like me 4 bombers just melted against even 3/2 TLT-thugs or 2 Scouts... so it was just out of curiosity what your actual experience were.

Posted Today, 12:05 PM

So true. Sometimes fell like Guidance Chip should have been Imperial Only. Probably bad design, but kind of makes sense thematically as the Empire should have had access to the best military technology, but it is as it is...

Wait.....I was thinking Black Sun Slicer Tools was a Black Sun Slicer Crew card. It's an Illicit? Sweet!!!!!

Muhaha! I have 5 Z-95's already.

Same here, 5 Zs. And 5 Kihraxzes, speaking of them, 2 Ks with vectored thrusters and Slicers could be fun.

Also, since it is an action, low PS pilots can use it before aces have a chance to run away from it, unlike feedback array.

I can't wait for the "here comes the hacker swarm. I'll just put down a red maneuver on my stressed ship" play.

Also, since it is an action, low PS pilots can use it before aces have a chance to run away from it, unlike feedback array.

I can't wait for the "here comes the hacker swarm. I'll just put down a red maneuver on my stressed ship" play.

i wouldnt ever do that. The moment i see someone do that i would start doing the "Maybe i wont hack this time..." mentality. Oh you revealed a red move? And i didnt hack you to remove stress before said red move? Darn...hello rock...

or for that matter, never succeeded to hack lol

Can this even be done? Unless you have Hera crew, aren't you denied the ability to choose red maneuvers while stressed?

Also, since it is an action, low PS pilots can use it before aces have a chance to run away from it, unlike feedback array.

I can't wait for the "here comes the hacker swarm. I'll just put down a red maneuver on my stressed ship" play.

Also, since it is an action, low PS pilots can use it before aces have a chance to run away from it, unlike feedback array.

I can't wait for the "here comes the hacker swarm. I'll just put down a red maneuver on my stressed ship" play.

i wouldnt ever do that. The moment i see someone do that i would start doing the "Maybe i wont hack this time..." mentality. Oh you revealed a red move? And i didnt hack you to remove stress before said red move? Darn...hello rock...

or for that matter, never succeeded to hack lol

Can this even be done? Unless you have Hera crew, aren't you denied the ability to choose red maneuvers while stressed?

You can't execute red maneuvers while stressed (usually); technically nothing prevents you choosing them.

Except for the fact that you then hand your opponent your dial and watch them pick your move for you.

You can't execute red maneuvers while stressed (usually); technically nothing prevents you choosing them.

Except for the fact that you then hand your opponent your dial and watch them pick your move for you.

Is that actually the result of choosing an unavailable maneuver? I'm really curious.

You can't execute red maneuvers while stressed (usually); technically nothing prevents you choosing them.

Except for the fact that you then hand your opponent your dial and watch them pick your move for you.

Is that actually the result of choosing an unavailable maneuver? I'm really curious.

Yep. If you dialled in a red because you forgot you were stressed then your opponent gets to choose your move. Better hope you're nowhere near the edge of the board!

Gamma Squadron with Homing Missiles, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips or LRS. Four of these.

We out PS TLT Y-Wings and U-Boats and the PS 2 version of the party bus. We have the capability to just wipe one at higher PS.

I have actually tried to get a 4 bomber list working, and I found that even with a strong alpha strike that takes out a TLT-thug and heavily damages another, or one Scout for that matter. The dial of the Bomber is so abysmal, that it is **** impossible to finish the job. Especially LRS kept me from prohibitively getting sufficient range to get that second target lock. And it felt like me 4 bombers just melted against even 3/2 TLT-thugs or 2 Scouts... so it was just out of curiosity what your actual experience were.

Your experience is correct, as I've said people overestimate the value of the alpha strike from Jumpmasters. Triple Jumps don't win in one round of firing, they win with a big round of firing followed by a rapid reposition for a second round of firing followed by mopping up the rest with a highly modified turreted attacks and a strong dial to chase down stragglers.

Bombers do the first bit just fine, struggle a bit for the second bit as they don't have a white S-Loop, and are simply rotten at the third bit.

You need a mix of Bombers and other ships to support in endgame. Omega Leader is a natural choice for his endgame strength, so you might go for something like:

• Omega Leader (Juke, Comm Relay)
• Gamma Squadron Pilot (Homing Missile, LRS, Extra Munitions)
• ​Gamma Squadron Pilot (Homing Missile, LRS, Extra Munitions)

Which leaves 24 points for either a 3rd Bomber (Concussion replacing Homing Missiles) or something like a Baron of the Empire with Crack Shot/Prockets, or even a couple of Academy Pilots.

Well. I guess that's a blatant and obvious nerf to pTL small ships and small ships in general.

Why the FLOCK can't we have extreme anti large ship counters?

I guess we're all playing large ships for wave 9 again. Not happy

I thought ordnance was the anti-large ship counter? Blast the crap out of something fast.

Anyway, I don't understand why, wehn FFG gives us this anti-aces weapon, the thing is limited to scum (and YTs). Imperials will use their new defender toys and rebels, once more, weep while gently stroking their dust-covered T65s.

OK....YT's will be able to take the card soon. Oh.....you can't take Engine Upgrade and everyone knows that YT's with Engine Upgrade is the only way to go....because you can arc dodge. Well...look at all the new pilots for the Heroes of the Resistance box. They have abilities that help when you are actually jousting someone. So....maybe the new pilots will be worth it to NOT take Engine Upgrade.

Also, what happens in a world where you don't see PTL Aces? Think about the effect in the meta. Let's look at the T-65. It doesn't have the jousting efficiency and it can't reposition. OK.....Integrated Astromech is out and that is a big time help for the efficiency. With all the PTL Aces gone...maybe re positioning isn't as big a deal? Maybe you can do alright with just jousting? Maybe we will actually see some T-65's on the table?

Palp Aces is responsible for the dominance of large base ships that your complain about. They're the only ships that can deal with Palp Aces. I would happily put quad PS 4 TIE Bomber down on the table if it wasn't for Palp Aces.

So following up on your last statement: What would you equip those quad PS4 Tie Bombers with? Long range scanners/and?

And will they still not just get hammered by Dengaroo, Brobots, the Partybus with entourage, quad TLT-thug, or for that matter tripple Uboats?

i still baffle my opponents when i run rebels since i almost always have an xwing in there, usually wedge or ello.

Baffle them again when he actually does something lol.

Wait, they ALL have abilities that help with jousting?

Have you seen the contents?

Share damnit!

For the record, though, Rey isn't going to be jousting anyone very well any time soon with only a single rerollable green die

Well. I guess that's a blatant and obvious nerf to pTL small ships and small ships in general.

Why the FLOCK can't we have extreme anti large ship counters?

I guess we're all playing large ships for wave 9 again. Not happy

Welcome to wave 7. Rebel large ships besides the Ghost and Imperial large ships outside the Shuttle evaporated.

TLTs and now Jumpmaster were an extreme hard counter.

As an Inquisitor pliot, I'm not to worried about this. If you're flying him right, you stay at range 3 to make the most of his ability.

Dude. It's an Action. You can't range-control something that moves before you.

And the Inquisitor should be more worried about it than Soontir because it only needs to trigger twice to kill him.

****, you're right. Time to fly Scum.

Anyway, I don't understand why, wehn FFG gives us this anti-aces weapon, the thing is limited to scum (and YTs). Imperials will use their new defender toys and rebels, once more, weep while gently stroking their dust-covered T65s.

You have seen the movies right? The individual ships may not match up perfect but the scenario is pretty valid. The rebellion has never hung with the empire in a straight ship battle and scum were at least respected enough that the Empire was willing to pay them good money.

As an Inquisitor pliot, I'm not to worried about this. If you're flying him right, you stay at range 3 to make the most of his ability.

Dude. It's an Action. You can't range-control something that moves before you.

And the Inquisitor should be more worried about it than Soontir because it only needs to trigger twice to kill him.

That feeling when you get a Palp Aces player to sweat because his training wheels squadron is in actual danger for once.

Ouch. Besides, I don't fly Palp Aces. Stupid ship's too expensive

Would it have killed them to rotate the stuff so we can read it?

Photography is an art. And photograph a job with 3 years required education, because it is that hard to not hold the camera the wrong way.

Would it have killed them to rotate the stuff so we can read it?

aww don't blame the guys

they got a lot of exciting stuff to do today

I do blame you, you posted it in that way.

Especially as turning a picture is literally one click these days in windows

Would it have killed you to crop and zoom so we can actually read it???

That's not a two-click operation

Besides, control + mousewheel is your friend, not as the picture has enough resolution … it's more guessing than reading, but that would have been the case even with crop and zoom as the picture itself is super low res.

So again, press and hold control and move your mouse wheel, there you have your crop and zoom ;-)

Anyway, I don't understand why, wehn FFG gives us this anti-aces weapon, the thing is limited to scum (and YTs). Imperials will use their new defender toys and rebels, once more, weep while gently stroking their dust-covered T65s.

You have seen the movies right? The individual ships may not match up perfect but the scenario is pretty valid. The rebellion has never hung with the empire in a straight ship battle and scum were at least respected enough that the Empire was willing to pay them good money.

At the Battle of Endor T-65s had no problem bullseying Interceptors over and over on screen, which is not reflected in the game at all. The films were all about TIE swarms and never really showed Imperial Aces on screen, which I guarantee a huge number of Imperial players would be upset about if the game truly reflected the films.

Well. I guess that's a blatant and obvious nerf to pTL small ships and small ships in general.

Why the FLOCK can't we have extreme anti large ship counters?

I guess we're all playing large ships for wave 9 again. Not happy

I thought ordnance was the anti-large ship counter? Blast the crap out of something fast.

Anyway, I don't understand why, wehn FFG gives us this anti-aces weapon, the thing is limited to scum (and YTs). Imperials will use their new defender toys and rebels, once more, weep while gently stroking their dust-covered T65s.

OK....YT's will be able to take the card soon. Oh.....you can't take Engine Upgrade and everyone knows that YT's with Engine Upgrade is the only way to go....because you can arc dodge. Well...look at all the new pilots for the Heroes of the Resistance box. They have abilities that help when you are actually jousting someone. So....maybe the new pilots will be worth it to NOT take Engine Upgrade.

Also, what happens in a world where you don't see PTL Aces? Think about the effect in the meta. Let's look at the T-65. It doesn't have the jousting efficiency and it can't reposition. OK.....Integrated Astromech is out and that is a big time help for the efficiency. With all the PTL Aces gone...maybe re positioning isn't as big a deal? Maybe you can do alright with just jousting? Maybe we will actually see some T-65's on the table?

Palp Aces is responsible for the dominance of large base ships that your complain about. They're the only ships that can deal with Palp Aces. I would happily put quad PS 4 TIE Bomber down on the table if it wasn't for Palp Aces.

So following up on your last statement: What would you equip those quad PS4 Tie Bombers with? Long range scanners/and?

And will they still not just get hammered by Dengaroo, Brobots, the Partybus with entourage, quad TLT-thug, or for that matter tripple Uboats?

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Crack Shot (1)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Long-Range Scanners (0)

Gamma Squadron Pilot (18)

Extra Munitions (2)

Concussion Missiles (4)

Long-Range Scanners (0)

Gamma Squadron Pilot (18)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Pilot (18)

Extra Munitions (2)

Proton Torpedoes (4)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Countermeasures is a house vs this, but aside from that Dengar is terrified of this list. He can't one-shot any of the incoming fire and you'll overwhelm his green dice with big missile hits.

The Countermeasures are a real problem, though. On initial engage one of your ships loses it's target lock and will struggle to reacquire unless it can get out to range 3, your other three ships are firing against 3 focused green dice with Lone Wolf. You'll ding the shields, that's all, and probably lose a Bomber in return to his revenge attack.

Probably attacking in an alpha mode isn't great as you want to try and bait Countermeasures out. Two groups of two ships could do better.

Anyway, I don't understand why, wehn FFG gives us this anti-aces weapon, the thing is limited to scum (and YTs). Imperials will use their new defender toys and rebels, once more, weep while gently stroking their dust-covered T65s.

You have seen the movies right? The individual ships may not match up perfect but the scenario is pretty valid. The rebellion has never hung with the empire in a straight ship battle and scum were at least respected enough that the Empire was willing to pay them good money.

At the Battle of Endor T-65s had no problem bullseying Interceptors over and over on screen, which is not reflected in the game at all. The films were all about TIE swarms and never really showed Imperial Aces on screen, which I guarantee a huge number of Imperial players would be upset about if the game truly reflected the films.

So there is no way that aces were wing commanders flying with a pack a scrubs just so the empire could field greater numbers? I saw that one too and saw just as many rebels splattered by enemy fighters. And statistically an Xwing can one shot any 3 hull ship it's the game mechanics that make it unlikely but the raw numbers are there, 3 red dice vs 3 hull mathematically sound. Ffg made it nigh impossible not lore.

not even just mathematically sound.

In the movies a single xwing takes out tie after tie after tie. They have vastly superior guns, but in game theyre only +1 die. Had they been +2 it probably would break the game but i dont think having slightly more accurate than normal 3die would be gamebreaking and that would give them that edge over tie fighters.

In the movies they were legions of generic interceptors that poor palp could only save one of per round

Fickle green dice will see them poo; fel is a beast of a different nature

Palp Aces can still be powerful with Yorr and Palp, just Palps will have to be in the battle more then hiding out so that Yorr can take the stress from aces.

That's basically the thing.

It's not that this means Soontir IS OVER...it just means you now can't float his stress from turn to turn, the way you usually do. I'm not sure Yorr would be a great choice for Soontir, though, as it prevents him from getting his focus...but maybe Soontir flying alongside Vader sporting 'Wingman' instead of one of his usual EPTs. Yorr certainly works fine for all the other PtL ace lists, of course.

I do think Soontir's time is over, the amount of efficiency lost is probably irreplacable. Although. I'm going to try hte "don't stress" idea and see how it turns out. Thanks for the reminder.

Also, yeah, maybe trying Yorr. But honestly, the ideal build now is over 100 points. which... probably should be the case for palp aces, from a balance perspective

For a no-stress Interceptor, why not Carnor?

People would probably rather choose a ship other than an Interceptor for Palp Aces now. Carnor isn't characterized with living forever like Soontir is, and doesnt have the raw action efficiency that Soontir has either. Vader, Omega Leader, Vessery, and so on will likely be the big picks.

I don't think that PTL Soontir is going to be pushed out of the meta because of Slicer Tools. They level the playing field against him for certain types of squads but it would surprise me if they will be common enough in significant numbers to make bringing Soontir a bad choice.

Slicer Tools is a good card because it's cheap. It's not Soontir Kryptonite. If it gives you a little bit of an edge against squads that are normally a bad match-up it earns its points. If it were two or three points, I think you'd see a lot less enthusiasm for it.

I think the most natural home for Slicer is probably Brobots. Unless the Shadowcaster explodes in popularity I doubt you'll see many Slicers at the top end of tournaments.