So, bear with me. It's just a thought or point of discussion.

Listening to a recent Mynock Squadron podcast talking about the evolution of the stress mechanic got me thinking.

"Should ships have a limitless amount of stress and not suffer any consequences?"

Not gonna say the game or stress mechanic is broken BUT.... there are now builds and ships who suffer no penalty for taking an endless supply of stress. And YES I know about Tyco's and what's his name B-Wing. Yes, I know Soontir likes a little stress.

Who doesn't care about stress these days? Dengaroo is one example, Hera on a VCX and endless 5k turns is another. Players now use 20 sided red die to keep count of the stress. If stress is supposed to be a penalty or limiter then where's the penalty for perma-stress? Denial of actions? Doesn't seem to worry those builds/ships.

Thematically and logically, building up a endless supply of stress doesn't seem to make sense (yes it's a game about made up space ships).

Does there need to be a limit to the amount of stress any ship can take before there's a consequence?

At a certain count damage?

Again - point of discussion, not a wah game is broken rant.

It's something for 2.0 to keep in mind. until then, the designers need to prevent anything as ridiculous as dengaroo from happening again. And, you know, errata dengaroo out of existence.

A stress resistant ship that can solo lists is clearly insane, to a degree that's unmatched by hera, the bot, or tycho. And Hera crew might be too good as well! certainly she limits the design space for rebel ships with crew, because. Uh, yeah.

Once Manaroo is gone, dengar is as scary as a naked firespray. He will have so much stress to get no actions ever. All he has is a lone wolf mod. Dengar can only block two hits per round.

I would just like a counter to super stressed ships, like a feedback array type mod that lets you remove two stress from the opponent to do 1dmg. That keeps ptl users safe, unless they get hit with a stress enabler plus be in range of that mod, but it hurts the stress abusers like dengaroo, and zuckuss abusers.

Couple of crazy ideas that only hurt ships with big stacks of stress:

For every 5 stress you have at the end of the end phase, roll a red dice and suffer the effects.

Every 5 stress reduces your pilot skill by 1. If you reach 0, take 1 hit every turn while you are at zero. (Stops party bus stupidity without killing it)

If you have 5 or more stress, you may not be assigned any focus, blue target lock or evade tokens during any phase except Activation. (Doesn't make Tycho useless but shuts down Dengaroo)

Silly? Yes. Dengaroo/Zuckuss/Stresshog curbing? Heck yes!

This is one of those things that people complain about that isn't actually a problem.

Complain about Dengaroo or Tactician or the Stresshog all you want.

Because you know who gives the least amount of hugs about stress? That's right, Palp Aces. The ships that can push the limit and do 3 actions a turn with no consequence because they have green hard turns.

If you want to complain about abuses of the stress mechanic of this game, Palp Aces is the worst offender.

Stress is supposed to be limiting. Push the Limit is supposed to have a downside. Palp Acewings just ignore that.

I think Stress should be limited, some of the early cards state do X unless you have a stress token, then you cant. Then came along Zuckuss... He will stress you out harder than a teenager learning to drive in your Ferrari...but it seems to have 0 consequence. I think Pilots should have 3-5 max stress tokens, I think even 5 is a lot. With white K turning Defenders, Dengaroo and the case of the bag of (Stress) Holding, stress seems to be just another token that you have to carry around for some ships, a la crit tokens.

It's something for 2.0 to keep in mind. until then, the designers need to prevent anything as ridiculous as Imperial Hyper C-3PO for your entire list from happening again. And, you know, errata Palp Aces out of existence.

Fixed that for you.

Imperial player greed knows no bounds.

This is one of those things that people complain about that isn't actually a problem.

Complain about Dengaroo or Tactician or the Stresshog all you want.

Because you know who gives the least amount of hugs about stress? That's right, Palp Aces. The ships that can push the limit and do 3 actions a turn with no consequence because they have green hard turns.

If you want to complain about abuses of the stress mechanic of this game, Palp Aces is the worst offender.

Stress is supposed to be limiting. Push the Limit is supposed to have a downside. Palp Acewings just ignore that.

This is one of those things that people complain about that isn't actually a problem.

Complain about Dengaroo or Tactician or the Stresshog all you want.

Because you know who gives the least amount of hugs about stress? That's right, Palp Aces. The ships that can push the limit and do 3 actions a turn with no consequence because they have green hard turns.

If you want to complain about abuses of the stress mechanic of this game, Palp Aces is the worst offender.

Stress is supposed to be limiting. Push the Limit is supposed to have a downside. Palp Acewings just ignore that.

PGS complaining about Acewing is the new Gunboat thread....

As you have said Stress is supposed to be limiting, you put 2 stress on an Ace and it is, you put 50 stress on Dengaroo or the Party Bus and it matters squat.

Push the limits downside for an Ace is they have to do a green to token stack. You seem to never mention Super Dash in any comments, Doesnt care about stress, rocks or much else. HLC to the cows come home.

Seems to me PGS people see your name now and scroll to the next comment. Which is a shame, you have a lot of experience to add, but you only harp on about Palp Acewing PWT's...

Dengar is NOT a firespray: he has PS9 AND Lone Wolf. That's the major distinction. Most Sprays require VI at competitive play.

That lone wolf gives him a lot more evasion. Also he hits harder before manaroo dies: zuckuss wipes things off the table.

Oh and let's not forget the whole SECOND attack with lone wolf WITH zuckuss nulling their defenses. Comparably to 1 extra die or reroll on a single attack you really have to work for.

Dengar hits much harder.

Couple of crazy ideas that only hurt ships with big stacks of stress:

For every 5 stress you have at the end of the end phase, roll a red dice and suffer the effects.

Every 5 stress reduces your pilot skill by 1. If you reach 0, take 1 hit every turn while you are at zero. (Stops party bus stupidity without killing it)

If you have 5 or more stress, you may not be assigned any focus, blue target lock or evade tokens during any phase except Activation. (Doesn't make Tycho useless but shuts down Dengaroo)

Silly? Yes. Dengaroo/Zuckuss/Stresshog curbing? Heck yes!

That was my exact thinking - at a certain amount of stress (say 5 tokens) roll for a hit/crit. It just seems the stress mechanic is wonky in some places.

And I do appreciate that even with the most robust play testing, the emergence of such unintentional effects in the design area are bound to happen.

Dengar is NOT a firespray: he has PS9 AND Lone Wolf. That's the major distinction. Most Sprays require VI at competitive play.

That lone wolf gives him a lot more evasion. Also he hits harder before manaroo dies: zuckuss wipes things off the table.

Oh and let's not forget the whole SECOND attack with lone wolf. Comparably to 1 extra die or reroll on a single attack you really have to work for.

Yep - that's what I thought.

Even with all that stress they hover up, consider the action economy of Dengar and the Party Bus you get.

This is one of those things that people complain about that isn't actually a problem.

Complain about Dengaroo or Tactician or the Stresshog all you want.

Because you know who gives the least amount of hugs about stress? That's right, Palp Aces. The ships that can push the limit and do 3 actions a turn with no consequence because they have green hard turns.

If you want to complain about abuses of the stress mechanic of this game, Palp Aces is the worst offender.

Stress is supposed to be limiting. Push the Limit is supposed to have a downside. Palp Acewings just ignore that.

Not so much a complaint - it's a point of discussion. What do people think? Is is or is it not a good mechanic that some ships can take advantage of unlimited stress? Or is that appropriate?

Hopefully I was clear in saying I'm not calling it "broken" or "WAHHHH FFG NERF!".

Stress is a good mechanic, and I think Stresshog and Tactician are legit for their point value and their effect. You do have to learn how to counter them. But ultimately stress is a limiting mechanic that acts as a check against the abuse of actions or combinations.

Therefore the question I'm asking is "What is the role of stress in the game?"

Put a stress on a certain kind of ship, and the result can be disastrous (Tie Phantom). Party Bus can eat stress and ion tokens and not care.

And as an imperial player, I see the point about Palpatine. There is a case to be made that even at 8pts he is under costed .

A PTL Soontir is vulnerable to stress at the wrong time - if he gets more than two (say from tactician) it can put him in a difficult spot.

He doesn't care, Imperial Mike. Not one whit.

hmm...Maybe we want some kind of crew or modification that uses an action to have an enemy ship roll attack dice equal to the number of stress tokens they have and take damage accordingly.

I agree that the long term wants a proper stress fix, but that may well balance things out in the short term.

This is one of those things that people complain about that isn't actually a problem.

Complain about Dengaroo or Tactician or the Stresshog all you want.

Because you know who gives the least amount of hugs about stress? That's right, Palp Aces. The ships that can push the limit and do 3 actions a turn with no consequence because they have green hard turns.

If you want to complain about abuses of the stress mechanic of this game, Palp Aces is the worst offender.

Stress is supposed to be limiting. Push the Limit is supposed to have a downside. Palp Acewings just ignore that.

PGS complaining about Acewing is the new Gunboat thread....

As you have said Stress is supposed to be limiting, you put 2 stress on an Ace and it is, you put 50 stress on Dengaroo or the Party Bus and it matters squat.

Push the limits downside for an Ace is they have to do a green to token stack. You seem to never mention Super Dash in any comments, Doesnt care about stress, rocks or much else. HLC to the cows come home.

Seems to me PGS people see your name now and scroll to the next comment. Which is a shame, you have a lot of experience to add, but you only harp on about Palp Acewing PWT's...

Were you around here during the wave 5 no skill Turretwing wasteland meta? I complained a TON about fat turrets and the one I hated most was Super Dash because he ignores literally every interesting game mechanic and limitation in the game. I even complained that the new damage wasn't actually necessary and that it was just to cater to no-skill Super Dash players. I also complained when Kanan crew was spoiled, because that's blatantly hugging game ruining.

People have always done this crap. They did this to me when I complained about the Phantom, about Fat Turrets, and now about Palp Aces. It's fine, the current batch of them are all wrong just like all the Phantom apologists told me to stop using hyperbole and that there is, "No such thing as an autoloss", and like Turretwing players who told me how much variety there was in the meta and that turrets took skill, cared about maneuver dials, and didn't ruin the game.

So when someone says to me, "Stop using Hyperbole, Soontir isn't /invincible/, he can only convert blank blank focus into 4 evade results ONCE a turn. Just have to concentrate fire on him", I just see them as another blatantly wrong wave 8 version of a Phantom or Turretwing Apologist.

And a year from now, when Palp Aces has either been nerfed directly or otherwise shut out from the meta by being countered, everyone will magically agree with me, just like how everyone magically hates turrets now.

Honestly, since it's a limited number of ships that can take/like stress, it's not a problem. There are maybe 5-10 list archetypes/ships that ignore stress or don't worry about it much, but they can be categorised into 2 parts: (1) is ships that ignore 1 stress due to ease of clearing it but are worried when double-stressed. (2) is ships that have some property to ignore massive amounts of stress, or have it be ineffective to them.

(1) includes aces where 2 stress means they're in trouble, and also dash - if he's double-stressed he can easily be donut-holed if not played well. Keyan Farlander is also one of these, although he requires an attack to clear it.

(2) includes dengar with manaroo support, Stresshog Y wing, Tycho Celchu, and partybuses with zuckuss. These are very few and far between. They are either predictable & easy to avoid (stressed Y wing or Partybus) or have some other reason why they can ignore stress. Tycho is good because he can do whites every day then keep his actions. Dengaroo is good because Dengar can zuckuss his attacks and still have actions - but this all ends when manaroo dies, so it's not too bad.

Everyone seems to complain about stress being ignored so much, but since there are so few ships that can do this that it's not a problem. Most of them have downsides like multiple stress, required buff-ships, or predictable movement, and the ones that don't are very few & far between.

I would say we need more of those, not less.

Dangaroo, Hera and PychoTycho are not enough potential sources to make counters to it valid. Once you pile up a few more ships which thrive on stress you can start to bring stuff like Latts Razzi. Things which thrive on abusing that Pile of Stress on your opponents. Play and Counterplay, the essence of game design.Offer counterplay, but it needs to be useable in the tourney format, because counters which are dead weight in most cases do not make the cut to counter anything.

Speaking of the dead-weight problem. I think some form of side-deck might be a good idea. Changing crew or ordonance between rounds for example. This would open the game for more counter-play options.


edit:

Btw, a double stressed Dash has still his whole dial open, sure he loses his ability to roll or boost, but considering that some people these days think that they can do without the eu and still do fine … it certainly is not as problematic on dash as it is on Soontir.

This is one of those things that people complain about that isn't actually a problem.

Complain about Dengaroo or Tactician or the Stresshog all you want.

Because you know who gives the least amount of hugs about stress? That's right, Palp Aces. The ships that can push the limit and do 3 actions a turn with no consequence because they have green hard turns.

If you want to complain about abuses of the stress mechanic of this game, Palp Aces is the worst offender.

Stress is supposed to be limiting. Push the Limit is supposed to have a downside. Palp Acewings just ignore that.

IIRC, Palpatine has actually zero effect on the stress side of things. Kind of like blaming C-3P0 crew for problems with Rebel Regen

The point with stress is to predict your opponents movement. Interceptors - such as Soontir is known to have turns on 2 and straight 2,3 and 4. Thanks to that, you use units with less PS such as Green Squardon to block those ships. By blocking ships, you get those advances.

About PalpAce. Yes it's as broken as Jumpmaster x 3 were. You can still win against it if you take out the Palpmobile first then ace. As soon as Palpmobile is gone - aces are gone. I manage to whip Omega Leader, Whisper and Palpmobile with 2 Y-Wings, 1 T-70 and HWK by having a good plan. T-70 chased Whisper. 1 Y-Wing gave stress. Other Y-Wing added the damage säand HWK "Goark" gave PS 12.

This is one of those things that people complain about that isn't actually a problem.

Complain about Dengaroo or Tactician or the Stresshog all you want.

Because you know who gives the least amount of hugs about stress? That's right, Palp Aces. The ships that can push the limit and do 3 actions a turn with no consequence because they have green hard turns.

If you want to complain about abuses of the stress mechanic of this game, Palp Aces is the worst offender.

Stress is supposed to be limiting. Push the Limit is supposed to have a downside. Palp Acewings just ignore that.

You're acting like it's impossible to block Soontir or to put one extra stress on him. Palp aces is a strong list, but you deny them their actions and they'll die like flies.

I don't see this as a problem, personally. Indeed, the older abilities that require you not to be stressed to use them probably would be usable if you could use them while already stressed.

The game has added a lot of other sources of action economy than simply taking an action and you would need to tone down that aspect to make infinite stress builds less workable. Beware, though, if you choose to do this, prepare to see a game of nothing but generic jousters.

It would be cool if you have maximum stress value = starting hull (shields not included). once you have more stress that hull points receive 1 face down damage (goes through the shields) card per extra stress token and remove the extra stress tokens.

Because lets face it Stress is a killer

Stress should have been Binary... but we're way past that now.

As is stands - stress needs a fix.

Here's one I like - If you have more than 2 Stress you MUST take a green maneuver. Your pilot is too stressed to even fly a white - if you put down a white, your opponent is given the dial and they change it to something that is a legal maneuver (a Green).

Stress is supposed to be about limiting your pilot options... for some ships it just does not do that anymore.

I'd say a more interesting solution would be

"When your stress token count reaches five or higher, during the next round's preparation phase, set the dial to your slowest green forward maneuver. After you execute the maneuver, during the check stress step, clear all stress tokens until you have three stress tokens."

This would work like being ionized and would simulate the pilot being overwhelmed by all sources of stress (high-G turns, systems failures, etc) and just blacking out for a second or being forced to coast while he deals with the problem. The clearing stress back to three makes it less likely that a ship would be shutdown completely by stressbots. To add unpredictability, you could either change it so the enemy chooses a green maneuver in secret out of the stressed ship's dial instead, or so that the defender rolls a defense die and sets next turn's dial to his slowest green forward on an evade, green bank left on a focus, or green bank right on a blank (restricted to green forwards if the ship doesn't have green banks)

edit: Hah! Almost ninja'ed by KryatDragon. But the ideas are different enough. The problem with such a low ceiling as two stress is that multiple stressbots might easily shut down a ship completely, and I don't see how that would be fun for anyone.