Buzzsaw Whisper @ 44

Echo @ ??

Wampa @ 14

Total: 98 or less!

Buzzsaw Whisper for those who don't know. Whisper + VI + ACD + Gunner + FCS = Screaming Death

Echo... Hmmm I usually run her the exact same as Whisper, but then to add Wampa brings us to 100 and that's just no good at all! Enter Collision Detectors perhaps? This card could be really swell, but giving up FCS is going to hurt the dice. I'm thinking keep Gunner on her then.

What do y'all think?

I personally prefer recon specialist on Echo, focus for attack and defence. That would also save you 2 points.

I see the excitement of Gunner on both, but personally I prefer a combination other less expensive options. How often will gunner even be used? Against a Palp, maybe a few times? Recon Spec, Mara Jade, Int. agent, Kallus......... All less costly and more frequently activated. IMO you are throwing a lot of points at the 2 phantoms, id save the points and run a upgraded Wampa, possibly foregoing the crew slots all together, but thats just me.

Why bring Wampa? Your crit chance is 1 out of 4. So you are lucky if this procs more than once in a whole game. And once is not enough to make it useful. Take an academy and free up 2 points, which helps you to get an initiative bid.

Gunner. Gunner allows you to forgo taking a focus in favour of a BR or evade. This works especially well with FCS too as you can potentially roll and reroll several times in the same attack. In a two ship list where every roll counts you really want to make sure the damage sticks. Buzzsaw Whisper, if played properly will solo entire lists. Gunner doesn't need to be justified. It works. Trust me. Yes, it's true that sometimes it can leave you wanting, low evade ships especially can be troublesome. Those low evade ships don't have to worry about Gunner so much as they do the four red dice, so it balances. FCS also laughs at low evade once it's set up. For someone like Whisper, who so desperately needs to shoot and score hits, Gunner is basically glued on. Echo... okay sure. She doesn't need to hit, just attack. Since her ability is decloak based, that's what she wants to do. But since Echo is so maneuverable, I feel like you don't want to tie her down to one action. Sure Rec Spec affords her mods on both dice, but it also eclipses the BR and evade actions. Keep FCS in this build and yes, you have fully modded attack dice and good defense, but is token stacking really better than arc dodging when you only have four total health? Gunner seems like a natural choice for Echo again, simply for the freedom of action it grants.

On to Wampa. I have tried the blocker at 12 points and at 14 for an /fo and my feelings are mixed. Wampa provides something that the blocker just doesn't, incentive to shoot. No one shoots the blocker unless they have to, and then it's usually gone too quickly. If I can use Wampa to block effectively (albeit from a less favourable PS) and score a few hits, then she will be worth the points. Against lower PS lists where Wampa can't block, then I guess she is just a 14 point Biggs.

A friend of mine recently ran against me a slimmer Whisper and Echo with a doom shuttle. It was brutal. The phantoms had VI + FCS + ACD. His original build was pretty much exactly yours, and I had no difficulties defeating it. I suggested the doom shuttle to him, and my tournament list has consistently lost to him ever since.

Gunner. Gunner allows you to forgo taking a focus in favour of a BR or evade. This works especially well with FCS too as you can potentially roll and reroll several times in the same attack. In a two ship list where every roll counts you really want to make sure the damage sticks. Buzzsaw Whisper, if played properly will solo entire lists. Gunner doesn't need to be justified. It works. Trust me. Yes, it's true that sometimes it can leave you wanting, low evade ships especially can be troublesome. Those low evade ships don't have to worry about Gunner so much as they do the four red dice, so it balances. FCS also laughs at low evade once it's set up. For someone like Whisper, who so desperately needs to shoot and score hits, Gunner is basically glued on. Echo... okay sure. She doesn't need to hit, just attack. Since her ability is decloak based, that's what she wants to do. But since Echo is so maneuverable, I feel like you don't want to tie her down to one action. Sure Rec Spec affords her mods on both dice, but it also eclipses the BR and evade actions. Keep FCS in this build and yes, you have fully modded attack dice and good defense, but is token stacking really better than arc dodging when you only have four total health? Gunner seems like a natural choice for Echo again, simply for the freedom of action it grants.

I see your points, guess I do not miss with whisper very often, plus FCS and ACD go off whether or not it hits. I'm not saying Gunner is a bad choice, was only pointing out that I have seen whisper do some nasty things to lists based on either tossing stress or fore knowledge of a manuever. If I was running both Echo and Whisper I would love to run Mara and int. agent., but thats just my style, I can't stand stripped down ties! Give me and f/o or a stealth device for cannon fodder and I'll risk the occassional 4-5 dice miss

Well, at the very minimum, if you want to run double phantoms you'd at least need ACD and something to boost the PS. I have a list with a Echo w/ VI, ACD and Whisper w/ Adaptability, ACD. While VI is preferred on Whisper, that puts them both at PS8 and 71 points, which is perfect for a Palp mobile!

Disclaimer: I'd never fly this at a 'high-level' tournament, but **** is it fun!

Whisper w/ VI, FCS, gunner & ACD = 44

Echo w/ push the limit, advanced sensors, recon spec & ACD = 43

Academy pilot = 12

99

Echo w/ push + sensors is not as predictable as it might seem, and even if your opponent guesses right, he typically sits on 2 focus + evade to make his 2 green dice (all he has against higher PS attackers) not so bad at all.

The pair can deal quite a lot of damage, but they specialize in different things. Whisper can punch through Soontir's defenses and deal with other hard to hit targets. Echo mops up low agility stuff with solid efficiency. Echo is also a really good blocker if you need it against high PS arc-dodgers.

Would wampa be worth it? I think so. Psychologically, there are some enemies that might want to shoot Wampa first due to the threat of his ability. And a PS 1 blocker is nice and all, but does diddly-squat against this list's worst nightmare: Dengaroo.

In fact, I'd say Dengaroo is about as hard a counter as you can get to ANY double phantom list. For that reason, I don't think now is the right time to be bringing Whisper & Echo to any competitive events. However, if you were totally dead-set on using them, I would suggest this list:

'buzzsaw' Whisper (as above) = 44

Echo w/ predator, collision detector, rebel captive & ACD = 40

Wampa = 14

98

The reason is because Wampa is the only TIE pilot that actually has a chance of hurting Dengar (even if its still not a very good one). Echo with Rebel Captive is great against Manaroo. You send Whisper and Wampa after Dengar and send Echo after Manaroo. Hope your opponent is foolish enough to shoot Echo with manaroo (after using push the limit). Even if your opponent isn't dumb enough to fall for that trick, Echo can bring down Manaroo hopefully before both Whisper and Wampa bite it. They are both dangerous enough that they should hurt dengar at least some, and maybe Echo can finish him off? Not great odds, but about as good as it gets, unfortunately.

I've flown this. It can be a LOT of fun.

100 points

PILOTS

“Whisper” (39)
TIE Phantom (32), Tactician (2), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

“Echo” (37)
TIE Phantom (30), Tactician (2), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (24)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Darth Vader (3)

Well since I took Whisper and Echo to Regionals and went 3 for 3 (first event ever), I'd have to say I feel like it's just a matter of learning the list a bit more. I brought the /fo blocker and traded Gunner for Tac on Echo. Threw out three stress all weekend. Gunner proc'd a few times. I'd say that Gunner was more useful by sheer dint of keeping bad red dice results off the table.

Whenever I practice with the list now though I never use the blocker and I'm thinking that I might just say screw it and run the two Gunners.

On to Wampa. I have tried the blocker at 12 points and at 14 for an /fo and my feelings are mixed. Wampa provides something that the blocker just doesn't, incentive to shoot. No one shoots the blocker unless they have to, and then it's usually gone too quickly. If I can use Wampa to block effectively (albeit from a less favourable PS) and score a few hits, then she will be worth the points. Against lower PS lists where Wampa can't block, then I guess she is just a 14 point Biggs.

Without Palpatine there is no reason to focus Wampa. With Palpatine Wampa needs to get removed asap. Rolling natural crits on two dice happens simply not often enough. It's only a 14 point biggs if people actually trying to shoot it. A 2-point initiative bid and gunners on both phantoms is a lot more consistent than Wampa.

Trade FCS for CD on Echo and I can have it all! Lol, well... Except that tasty Gunner/FCS dicefest...