Wow shmitty, you're like, the first Bothan to not die horribly after receiving information.

Edit: well, that was awkward...

I guess my phone doesn't like the phrase 'not die'...

Gouging is a bit of a strong term to use, especially on a luxury product. It's not like buying plastic spaceships is fundamental to your ability to live/work/pay your bills. It would be nice if the card was more readily available, I agree. But on the flip side, you can proxy to your heart's content in casual play, FFG is a business that wants sell product (again, a luxury product), and frankly, if you look at X-Wing (and Armada actually), they've usually been pretty good about identifying cards that get a lot of play and eventually getting more of them into circulation (Xi7 & Leading Shots, for Armada examples). I agree, it would've been nice if a card like that, which seems strong, would've at least been in two of the expansions, but if it does prove strong, more will eventually be made available.

Well, lost my first game.

Just like last year.

Hopefully that puts you across from the baby seals, whose carcasses you can climb on top of to get you closer to the top tables by way of a flanking maneuver.

On the upside, had a chat with an FFG exec and Alex Davy about Corellian Conflict. I will have things to share.

Oh! That's awesome. Looking forward to learning more.

On the upside, had a chat with an FFG exec and Alex Davy about Corellian Conflict. I will have things to share.

Gimee, gimee, gimee, gimee, gimee, gimee, gimee, !!!!!!!

Gouging is a bit of a strong term to use, especially on a luxury product. It's not like buying plastic spaceships is fundamental to your ability to live/work/pay your bills. It would be nice if the card was more readily available, I agree. But on the flip side, you can proxy to your heart's content in casual play, FFG is a business that wants sell product (again, a luxury product), and frankly, if you look at X-Wing (and Armada actually), they've usually been pretty good about identifying cards that get a lot of play and eventually getting more of them into circulation (Xi7 & Leading Shots, for Armada examples). I agree, it would've been nice if a card like that, which seems strong, would've at least been in two of the expansions, but if it does prove strong, more will eventually be made available.

You mean a hobby? right, luxury products are high end sports cars, yachts, $20,000 watches, stuff like that.

And I am so sick and tired of the lame ass argument, "it is not fundamental to your ability to live/work/paybills." total and utter strawman.

When you create a rule system that requires multiple copies of the same cards to play in a competition, you create demand, for your supply, they know this, we know this. Getting pissed about it, is fine, and no plastic models are not luxury items, you know they are made out of oil right? something that is at a historic low in price.

Hand painted by someone like Vykes, I could maybe, just maybe buy into "luxury" products. they are in fact mass produced in china for pennies, and vastly and I mean vastly inflated in price for us the buyer.

Gouging is a bit of a strong term to use, especially on a luxury product. It's not like buying plastic spaceships is fundamental to your ability to live/work/pay your bills. It would be nice if the card was more readily available, I agree. But on the flip side, you can proxy to your heart's content in casual play, FFG is a business that wants sell product (again, a luxury product), and frankly, if you look at X-Wing (and Armada actually), they've usually been pretty good about identifying cards that get a lot of play and eventually getting more of them into circulation (Xi7 & Leading Shots, for Armada examples). I agree, it would've been nice if a card like that, which seems strong, would've at least been in two of the expansions, but if it does prove strong, more will eventually be made available.

You mean a hobby? right, luxury products are high end sports cars, yachts, $20,000 watches, stuff like that.

And I am so sick and tired of the lame ass argument, "it is not fundamental to your ability to live/work/paybills." total and utter strawman.

When you create a rule system that requires multiple copies of the same cards to play in a competition, you create demand, for your supply, they know this, we know this. Getting pissed about it, is fine, and no plastic models are not luxury items, you know they are made out of oil right? something that is at a historic low in price.

Hand painted by someone like Vykes, I could maybe, just maybe buy into "luxury" products. they are in fact mass produced in china for pennies, and vastly and I mean vastly inflated in price for us the buyer.

Telling it like it is.

Though a little self-privilege check on these un-neccesseties comes off nicely as reflective.

I, to this day, still have no intel officers. My firing teams run on hamster powered abacuses.

Gouging is a bit of a strong term to use, especially on a luxury product. It's not like buying plastic spaceships is fundamental to your ability to live/work/pay your bills. It would be nice if the card was more readily available, I agree. But on the flip side, you can proxy to your heart's content in casual play, FFG is a business that wants sell product (again, a luxury product), and frankly, if you look at X-Wing (and Armada actually), they've usually been pretty good about identifying cards that get a lot of play and eventually getting more of them into circulation (Xi7 & Leading Shots, for Armada examples). I agree, it would've been nice if a card like that, which seems strong, would've at least been in two of the expansions, but if it does prove strong, more will eventually be made available.

You mean a hobby? right, luxury products are high end sports cars, yachts, $20,000 watches, stuff like that.

And I am so sick and tired of the lame ass argument, "it is not fundamental to your ability to live/work/paybills." total and utter strawman.

When you create a rule system that requires multiple copies of the same cards to play in a competition, you create demand, for your supply, they know this, we know this. Getting pissed about it, is fine, and no plastic models are not luxury items, you know they are made out of oil right? something that is at a historic low in price.

Hand painted by someone like Vykes, I could maybe, just maybe buy into "luxury" products. they are in fact mass produced in china for pennies, and vastly and I mean vastly inflated in price for us the buyer.

FFG has figured out a business model that works for them. Cost to manufacture has little to do with the price the product is sold for. These plastic toys have a lot of time invested to develop rules, design the graphics, 3d design etc. Yes, FFG creates a demand, and controls the supply. Kudos for finding a way to make money in an area that not many companies can, while still keeping the prices low enough for most people.

Gouging is a bit of a strong term to use, especially on a luxury product. It's not like buying plastic spaceships is fundamental to your ability to live/work/pay your bills. It would be nice if the card was more readily available, I agree. But on the flip side, you can proxy to your heart's content in casual play, FFG is a business that wants sell product (again, a luxury product), and frankly, if you look at X-Wing (and Armada actually), they've usually been pretty good about identifying cards that get a lot of play and eventually getting more of them into circulation (Xi7 & Leading Shots, for Armada examples). I agree, it would've been nice if a card like that, which seems strong, would've at least been in two of the expansions, but if it does prove strong, more will eventually be made available.

You mean a hobby? right, luxury products are high end sports cars, yachts, $20,000 watches, stuff like that.

And I am so sick and tired of the lame ass argument, "it is not fundamental to your ability to live/work/paybills." total and utter strawman.

When you create a rule system that requires multiple copies of the same cards to play in a competition, you create demand, for your supply, they know this, we know this. Getting pissed about it, is fine, and no plastic models are not luxury items, you know they are made out of oil right? something that is at a historic low in price.

Hand painted by someone like Vykes, I could maybe, just maybe buy into "luxury" products. they are in fact mass produced in china for pennies, and vastly and I mean vastly inflated in price for us the buyer.

Telling it like it is.

Though a little self-privilege check on these un-neccesseties comes off nicely as reflective.

I, to this day, still have no intel officers. My firing teams run on hamster powered abacuses.

Learn to play without? I don't always use leading shots. I currently have 4 though, 3 of which are the expanded art versions.

FFG is learning and growing. This is shown by them adding in Leading Shots AND Xi7's into their tournament kits.

To say you need five FCTs is a little excessive. It's a great card, but only great when you have squadrons, which is pretty hard when you have five ships taking that card. On the Imperial side, only Interdictors and Gladiators are even capable of taking them. I think three would be the absolute max you would ever reasonably need, and you don't NEED these to be competitive, that is just one option.

FFG is actually doing a really great job of putting cards that work with a model in the actual model's package. MC30s with Lando, Admonition, APT, and Ordnance Experts? That's in one box. A Gladiator with Demolisher, Expanded Launchers or ACM and Engine Techs? Also in one box. If FFG were really trying to take advantage they'd put Ordnance Experts in AFMK IIs and Sensor Teams in every other ship's box that can take a Weapons Team. No card right now is mandatory to win.

Stay on topic you guys. There are plenty of other places to go over the card thing again (and again).

Thanks Shmitty!

Gouging is a bit of a strong term to use, especially on a luxury product. It's not like buying plastic spaceships is fundamental to your ability to live/work/pay your bills. It would be nice if the card was more readily available, I agree. But on the flip side, you can proxy to your heart's content in casual play, FFG is a business that wants sell product (again, a luxury product), and frankly, if you look at X-Wing (and Armada actually), they've usually been pretty good about identifying cards that get a lot of play and eventually getting more of them into circulation (Xi7 & Leading Shots, for Armada examples). I agree, it would've been nice if a card like that, which seems strong, would've at least been in two of the expansions, but if it does prove strong, more will eventually be made available.

You mean a hobby? right, luxury products are high end sports cars, yachts, $20,000 watches, stuff like that.

And I am so sick and tired of the lame ass argument, "it is not fundamental to your ability to live/work/paybills." total and utter strawman.

When you create a rule system that requires multiple copies of the same cards to play in a competition, you create demand, for your supply, they know this, we know this. Getting pissed about it, is fine, and no plastic models are not luxury items, you know they are made out of oil right? something that is at a historic low in price.

Hand painted by someone like Vykes, I could maybe, just maybe buy into "luxury" products. they are in fact mass produced in china for pennies, and vastly and I mean vastly inflated in price for us the buyer.

FFG has figured out a business model that works for them. Cost to manufacture has little to do with the price the product is sold for. These plastic toys have a lot of time invested to develop rules, design the graphics, 3d design etc. Yes, FFG creates a demand, and controls the supply. Kudos for finding a way to make money in an area that not many companies can, while still keeping the prices low enough for most people.

I am not arguing about FFGs business model, as I stated elsewhere I've made my peace with it. What I do get annoyed about, is people spouting that luxury item crap, cheap mass produced plastic and cardboard is not in any shape or form a luxury item.

And in X-Wing, spending $15 to get the latest set of cards is fine, putting 1 upgrade in a 2 ship release, in ships that cost $40 each is a little excessive. at the very least it should have been in both ships.

I don't mind wanting to generate extra income from the demand for upgrade cards, what I detest is the waste involved, I have bought ships that I wanted 1 or 2 cards out of, and the rest is useless to me, I'd rather spend $30 on a pack of cards, that has maybe 3-5 in I actually want, and the rest be duplicates I will get some time use out of depending on my build choices, and some I don't need, I can accept a few cards being junk, not the entire package, it is a waste of materials.

Gouging is a bit of a strong term to use, especially on a luxury product. It's not like buying plastic spaceships is fundamental to your ability to live/work/pay your bills. It would be nice if the card was more readily available, I agree. But on the flip side, you can proxy to your heart's content in casual play, FFG is a business that wants sell product (again, a luxury product), and frankly, if you look at X-Wing (and Armada actually), they've usually been pretty good about identifying cards that get a lot of play and eventually getting more of them into circulation (Xi7 & Leading Shots, for Armada examples). I agree, it would've been nice if a card like that, which seems strong, would've at least been in two of the expansions, but if it does prove strong, more will eventually be made available.

You mean a hobby? right, luxury products are high end sports cars, yachts, $20,000 watches, stuff like that.

And I am so sick and tired of the lame ass argument, "it is not fundamental to your ability to live/work/paybills." total and utter strawman.

When you create a rule system that requires multiple copies of the same cards to play in a competition, you create demand, for your supply, they know this, we know this. Getting pissed about it, is fine, and no plastic models are not luxury items, you know they are made out of oil right? something that is at a historic low in price.

Hand painted by someone like Vykes, I could maybe, just maybe buy into "luxury" products. they are in fact mass produced in china for pennies, and vastly and I mean vastly inflated in price for us the buyer.

FFG has figured out a business model that works for them. Cost to manufacture has little to do with the price the product is sold for. These plastic toys have a lot of time invested to develop rules, design the graphics, 3d design etc. Yes, FFG creates a demand, and controls the supply. Kudos for finding a way to make money in an area that not many companies can, while still keeping the prices low enough for most people.

Indeed. Compared to other systems which are say $10+ per un-painted tank, or a platoon of unpainted figs, there's a heck of a lot to be said for not having to invest many an evening trying to paint up an ISD so it looks "right". Mod'ing an ISD with LEDs to make it look even more awesome ... well :-D

I sure feel like I get my moneys worth for what comes out of the box ready to play.

I think you don't understand what a luxury item is.

By most definitions it's an item that is other than a necessity.

Food is a necessity, water is a necessity, clothing is a necessity (yes you can get 'luxury' versions of these things, but the added perceived value is the luxury, not the underlying item)

Plastic spaceships are a luxury.

I don't buy ships for cards, I get the ships I want to use and just live with the cards they come with, I just happen to think it's best to get as many of each ship as you can fit in a list.....

I want to get 5-6 of each small, 4 of each medium ships ( apart from vindicator) and three of each large. eBay is helping with this dream....

Dudes, come on.

Pursue that track of conversation in another thread, please.

I think you don't understand what a luxury item is.

By most definitions it's an item that is other than a necessity.

Food is a necessity, water is a necessity, clothing is a necessity (yes you can get 'luxury' versions of these things, but the added perceived value is the luxury, not the underlying item)

Plastic spaceships are a luxury.

No plastic space ships are not a luxury item, because we are talking about two entirely different things.

Games workshop think they produce "luxury" items, which is why they are slowly pricing themselves out of the traditional gaming market.

When the guy from Asmodee talked about "luxury" he was not talking about food and drink are essentials, he was justifying their rampant greed via "we sell luxury products" not your ordinary run of the mill gaming stuff, we are exclusive, top end, understand?

And yes I am more than happy to stop discussing this.

So can we have more gencon updates and less arguing over semantically insignificant differences between types of products made by companies?

I won my second game.

Other familiar names from the forums seems to be doing pretty well. There will be some talented players from this group that don't make the cut.

Oh and the Internet is so jammed up here that I don't think live updates will be possible for the finals.

Congrats Shmitty!

Gouging is a bit of a strong term to use, especially on a luxury product. It's not like buying plastic spaceships is fundamental to your ability to live/work/pay your bills. It would be nice if the card was more readily available, I agree. But on the flip side, you can proxy to your heart's content in casual play, FFG is a business that wants sell product (again, a luxury product), and frankly, if you look at X-Wing (and Armada actually), they've usually been pretty good about identifying cards that get a lot of play and eventually getting more of them into circulation (Xi7 & Leading Shots, for Armada examples). I agree, it would've been nice if a card like that, which seems strong, would've at least been in two of the expansions, but if it does prove strong, more will eventually be made available.

You mean a hobby? right, luxury products are high end sports cars, yachts, $20,000 watches, stuff like that.

And I am so sick and tired of the lame ass argument, "it is not fundamental to your ability to live/work/paybills." total and utter strawman.

When you create a rule system that requires multiple copies of the same cards to play in a competition, you create demand, for your supply, they know this, we know this. Getting pissed about it, is fine, and no plastic models are not luxury items, you know they are made out of oil right? something that is at a historic low in price.

Hand painted by someone like Vykes, I could maybe, just maybe buy into "luxury" products. they are in fact mass produced in china for pennies, and vastly and I mean vastly inflated in price for us the buyer.

Telling it like it is.

Though a little self-privilege check on these un-neccesseties comes off nicely as reflective.

I, to this day, still have no intel officers. My firing teams run on hamster powered abacuses.

Learn to play without? I don't always use leading shots. I currently have 4 though, 3 of which are the expanded art versions.

FFG is learning and growing. This is shown by them adding in Leading Shots AND Xi7's into their tournament kits.

I'm not sure what you mean to imply here Lyr.

Anyway. I don't use them as often as I'd like.

But also, as nice as tourney alt arts are... a lot of people do not like tournaments for many reasons: They might not enough playing vs strangers. They might not be competitive players. They might not be able to make the tournaments due to date. They might not be able to make a tournament for 7+ hours plus usually 2 hours driving, due to scarcity. There might not BE tournaments in their country or in their area. Hell. They might not even be good enough to win at the level required to actually get that card.

When you play casual, you suffer for it. If you have the money and the commitment, there's no stopping you from buying at least 3 of each expo.

And, that's how the world works.

But... It would be nice to get some Intel Officers somewhere.

Gouging is a bit of a strong term to use, especially on a luxury product. It's not like buying plastic spaceships is fundamental to your ability to live/work/pay your bills. It would be nice if the card was more readily available, I agree. But on the flip side, you can proxy to your heart's content in casual play, FFG is a business that wants sell product (again, a luxury product), and frankly, if you look at X-Wing (and Armada actually), they've usually been pretty good about identifying cards that get a lot of play and eventually getting more of them into circulation (Xi7 & Leading Shots, for Armada examples). I agree, it would've been nice if a card like that, which seems strong, would've at least been in two of the expansions, but if it does prove strong, more will eventually be made available.

You mean a hobby? right, luxury products are high end sports cars, yachts, $20,000 watches, stuff like that.

And I am so sick and tired of the lame ass argument, "it is not fundamental to your ability to live/work/paybills." total and utter strawman.

When you create a rule system that requires multiple copies of the same cards to play in a competition, you create demand, for your supply, they know this, we know this. Getting pissed about it, is fine, and no plastic models are not luxury items, you know they are made out of oil right? something that is at a historic low in price.

Hand painted by someone like Vykes, I could maybe, just maybe buy into "luxury" products. they are in fact mass produced in china for pennies, and vastly and I mean vastly inflated in price for us the buyer.

Telling it like it is.

Though a little self-privilege check on these un-neccesseties comes off nicely as reflective.

I, to this day, still have no intel officers. My firing teams run on hamster powered abacuses.

Learn to play without? I don't always use leading shots. I currently have 4 though, 3 of which are the expanded art versions.

FFG is learning and growing. This is shown by them adding in Leading Shots AND Xi7's into their tournament kits.

I'm not sure what you mean to imply here Lyr.

Anyway. I don't use them as often as I'd like.

But also, as nice as tourney alt arts are... a lot of people do not like tournaments for many reasons: They might not enough playing vs strangers. They might not be competitive players. They might not be able to make the tournaments due to date. They might not be able to make a tournament for 7+ hours plus usually 2 hours driving, due to scarcity. There might not BE tournaments in their country or in their area. Hell. They might not even be good enough to win at the level required to actually get that card.

When you play casual, you suffer for it. If you have the money and the commitment, there's no stopping you from buying at least 3 of each expo.

And, that's how the world works.

But... It would be nice to get some Intel Officers somewhere.

We can talk about it in a PM without bothering those or derailing this topic. To be brief, All lists can work. It is helpful to have things like Leading Shots, XI7's or Intel officer but they are not required in the end. As we have seen at worlds last year, no upgrades can win.

Congrats Schmitty!

I won my second game.

Other familiar names from the forums seems to be doing pretty well. There will be some talented players from this group that don't make the cut.

Oh and the Internet is so jammed up here that I don't think live updates will be possible for the finals.

Meant to ask, can you puck me up a phase 2 DZC rulebook?

I wonder how much I will have to pay to get me one of those alt art cards ?

So nothing new announced at gencon? I've seen heaps of picks of other products but nothing about gencon.

Really disappointed with the idiots derailing this thread too. It's just poor form considering how many people have highlighted the issue.