I'm curious as to what the game would look like if costs were increased of some of the most common upgrades. Not necessarily to try and make what they 'should' cost but to try and break up common existing builds & combinations to force the whole of the top tier of lists down a notch into the rest of the pack. It's something Hearthstone do quite frequently - when they get bored of a card being too popular they don't just tweak the cost they often hammer it into the ground.

And yes, I'm not proposing that this is an easy option to actually implement because there's millions of cards around with the current cost so how do you get that errata out.

But please indulge my 'What If?' scenario and say..

What if the following cards all cost +2 points to equip?

• Emperor Palpatine
• Twin Laser Turret
• Push The Limit
• Engine Upgrade
• Autothrusters
• Crack Shot
• Guidance Chips

I've tried to specifically target most of the key existing tournament squads - Aces have to pay more for Palpatine and PTL, and they can't just go to Vader because Engine Upgrade is more expensive too. TIE Swarms can't spam Crack Shot onto everything, Dengaroo has to sacrifice to equip Manaroo the way they want to, Dash is more expensive, and Scouts have to sacrifice to bring Guidance Chips on everything. TLT was to stop people going back to the 4 Y-Wings, and then the last thing I added was Autothrusters just because if TLT took a knock I wanted other turrets to at least be viable.

None of these lists disappear entirely because all the cards are still available, they just have to make some compromises... is Fel worth 39pts (+2 PTL, +2 Autothrusters), on top of a 31pt Shuttle, leaving you not enough points for an Inquisitor as the 3rd ship? If Palp Aces was Soontir/Omega Leader/Shuttle would it be anywhere near as much of a problem?

So if all those lists take a knock then what rises up?

Well you taxed AT as well, so you wouldn't even be able to afford "Palp Aces" anyhow with a + 8 to +10 cost depending on the Aces.

+2 points for Palp makes next to no difference to his effectiveness, it just means the aces have to be slightly more budget and pocket aces isn't something the empire is exactly short on.

The others screw over most of the builds that use them hugely. Especially Guidance Chips and Crack Shot. Making a Crack Swarm 3 to 5 points more expensive does nothing to help the meta, given that crack swarms are good but little played because they're tough to play on the day and expensive in monetary terms, not because they're broken.

+4 points for Soontir might make a whole bunch of overpriced ships feel a little less so...

Well you taxed AT as well, so you wouldn't even be able to afford "Palp Aces" anyhow with a + 8 to +10 cost depending on the Aces.

I literally just went back and mini-editted.

Soontir becomes 39pts, Shuttle 31pts, so they'd have to compromise on the 3rd ship. Couldn't run Inquisitor with both PTL and Autothrusters but could run Omega Leader.

It's not about trying to outright kill existing lists, it's about trying to force them to make a compromise they don't currently have to make.

If you're taxing Chimps that way to fix Scouts, the fix to Scouts is to tax Scouts (either higher cost, removal of the EPT, or making them unique). Nothing else.

+2 points for Palp makes next to no difference to his effectiveness, it just means the aces have to be slightly more budget and pocket aces isn't something the empire is exactly short on.

The others screw over most of the builds that use them hugely. Especially Guidance Chips and Crack Shot. Making a Crack Swarm 3 to 5 points more expensive does nothing to help the meta, given that crack swarms are good but little played because they're tough to play on the day and expensive in monetary terms, not because they're broken.

+4 points for Soontir might make a whole bunch of overpriced ships feel a little less so...

The Aces tax is spread around, so it's not just the +2 for Palp but that Fel is also 39, Inquisitor 35 aces... the 'pocket aces' stop being so 'pocket' if they want to lean on action economy from PTL and insurance against turrets.

There's a little pre-emptive nerfing in here as well. So as you say Crack Swarms aren't everywhere but if you knocked all their current predators down a bit they probably would be - it's the same reason why I put TLT on there. You can still partially-crack... maybe you run Howlrunner and some Cracks, or all Cracks and no Howl, it's forcing a choice where currently they get both.

+2 points for Palp makes next to no difference to his effectiveness, it just means the aces have to be slightly more budget and pocket aces isn't something the empire is exactly short on.

The others screw over most of the builds that use them hugely. Especially Guidance Chips and Crack Shot. Making a Crack Swarm 3 to 5 points more expensive does nothing to help the meta, given that crack swarms are good but little played because they're tough to play on the day and expensive in monetary terms, not because they're broken.

+4 points for Soontir might make a whole bunch of overpriced ships feel a little less so...

The Aces tax is spread around, so it's not just the +2 for Palp but that Fel is also 39, Inquisitor 35 aces... the 'pocket aces' stop being so 'pocket' if they want to lean on action economy from PTL and insurance against turrets.

There's a little pre-emptive nerfing in here as well. So as you say Crack Swarms aren't everywhere but if you knocked all their current predators down a bit they probably would be - it's the same reason why I put TLT on there. You can still partially-crack... maybe you run Howlrunner and some Cracks, or all Cracks and no Howl, it's forcing a choice where currently they get both.

That's a bad choice. Crack Swarms only work at all because they can joust efficiently. Take away their option for efficient jousting and you mess them up entirely.

I'd argue that many of the items you mention could stnad to cost more or be fixed a little, but not all.

If you're taxing Chimps that way to fix Scouts, the fix to Scouts is to tax Scouts (either higher cost, removal of the EPT, or making them unique). Nothing else.

Again it's partly about trying to get ahead of the game. If everything else took a hit then it's plossible that just alpha strike Ordnance of some form would take over (eg. Bombers) so you need a broader nerf that keeps that pinned down a bit.

Engine upgrade should never be 6 points except on large bases and 3 points on small bases.

That's a bad choice. Crack Swarms only work at all because they can joust efficiently. Take away their option for efficient jousting and you mess them up entirely.

I'd argue that many of the items you mention could stnad to cost more or be fixed a little, but not all.

Cracked Howlrunner (20), 4 Crack Blacks (17 each), 1 Academy Pilot (12) = 100pts

It's still right there, barely changed from current form - 1 less Crack Shot, 2 less Shields from /FOs, one lower PS ship. I think TIE Swarm actually one of the existing lists that are least impacted, even though they pay the most additional cost, because they already had 'spare' points available by downgrading from their deluxe TIE/fo.

If you're taxing Chimps that way to fix Scouts, the fix to Scouts is to tax Scouts (either higher cost, removal of the EPT, or making them unique). Nothing else.

Again it's partly about trying to get ahead of the game. If everything else took a hit then it's plossible that just alpha strike Ordnance of some form would take over (eg. Bombers) so you need a broader nerf that keeps that pinned down a bit.

If you tax ordnance to the point it's not possible to alpha effectively, you remove ordnance from the game entirely, though. Ordnance is on a knife-edge balance between uselessness and overpoweredness. Bumping Chimps up by two just pushes it right back to terrible again.

For everyone apart from those who can equip LRS that is.

There are some things I personally think are bad for the health of the game either due to being overpowered, criminally un-fun to fly against, or both, but most of the things on your list aren't among them, or if they are, don't need that much 'fixing'.

A not engine upgraded Super Han and Phantons with high PS would take the top seeing as Autothrusters and the PS 9 crowd all would be taxed heavily. Dengaroo would still be a powerhouse, maybe the YV-666 would see play.

Engine upgrade should never be 6 points except on large bases and 3 points on small bases.

Says Darth ;-)

It's definitely more of an issue for big ships, but if you nerfed all the aces but Vader then it just means people play A LOT of Vader. If you want to play a staple like Vader in this 'What If?' scenario then I want to force you to make a compromise elsewhere to do so.

Wait we're talking about THREE points for Crack Shot?

lol, that would make it so useless as to be comically awful. In that situation you'd get Juke swarms instead.

A not engine upgraded Super Han and Phantons with high PS would take the top seeing as Autothrusters and the PS 9 crowd all would be taxed heavily. Dengaroo would still be a powerhouse, maybe the YV-666 would see play.

Cheers for indulging me!

Dengaroo struggles a bit from 4pts going onto Manaroo (PTL/Engine Upgrade) but it's not a brutal hit and they can probably afford it. Broadly you're probably right that a lot of it is unwinding the meta back through the waves, though aren't there new ships that would poke up? Like, I think the basic T-70 starts to get quite attractive as a jouster, for instance - 4 of them with Integrated Astromech, or something.

You probably also look at the stuff that's recently been buffed up, so Defenders might become the vanguard of the Imperial arsenal. Could be T-70s vs Defenders, which sounds like a pretty interesting game to me!

A not engine upgraded Super Han and Phantons with high PS would take the top seeing as Autothrusters and the PS 9 crowd all would be taxed heavily. Dengaroo would still be a powerhouse, maybe the YV-666 would see play.

Cheers for indulging me!

Dengaroo struggles a bit from 4pts going onto Manaroo (PTL/Engine Upgrade) but it's not a brutal hit and they can probably afford it. Broadly you're probably right that a lot of it is unwinding the meta back through the waves, though aren't there new ships that would poke up?

This doesn't hit Veterans Defenders very hard at all, and BomberBuddy/Def/Def is already a very strong list. So... you know, that would happen.

Wait we're talking about THREE points for Crack Shot?

lol, that would make it so useless as to be comically awful. In that situation you'd get Juke swarms instead.

Which is fine, because if you're Evading you're not Focusing so it's a choice. You could take 5 Juke Black Squadron TIEs and a Juke Howlrunner, for instance... that's fine, though (and TBH probably still worse than the swarm i shared about that spent 15pts on Crack Shots).

Aces would have no effect with a point cost increase, The inquisitor can replace soontir, total is still 99 which gives a 1 point bid.

The Inquisitor — TIE Advanced Prototype 25
Veteran Instincts 1, Autothrusters 4, TIE/v1 1
Ship Total: 31

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29, Veteran Instincts 1, Advanced Targeting Computer 1, Engine Upgrade 6, TIE/x1 0
Ship Total: 37

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle 21
Emperor Palpatine 10
Ship Total: 31

Aces would have no effect with a point cost increase, The inquisitor can replace soontir, total is still 99 which gives a 1 point bid.

The Inquisitor — TIE Advanced Prototype 25

Veteran Instincts 1, Autothrusters 4, TIE/v1 1

Ship Total: 31

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29, Veteran Instincts 1, Advanced Targeting Computer 1, Engine Upgrade 6, TIE/x1 0

Ship Total: 37

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle 21

Emperor Palpatine 10

Ship Total: 31

Looks good! See, people are thinking this is an apocalypse on existing lists when it's just tuning them down a bit.

Inquisitor no longer gets PTL on top of the action economy from the target lock, Vader lost Prockets, everything else is in place.

Aces would have no effect with a point cost increase, The inquisitor can replace soontir, total is still 99 which gives a 1 point bid.

The Inquisitor — TIE Advanced Prototype 25

Veteran Instincts 1, Autothrusters 4, TIE/v1 1

Ship Total: 31

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29, Veteran Instincts 1, Advanced Targeting Computer 1, Engine Upgrade 6, TIE/x1 0

Ship Total: 37

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle 21

Emperor Palpatine 10

Ship Total: 31

I wouldn't say it's unaffected. You're losing a good bit of action economy and token stacking with non-PtL inquisitor and Vader.

Engine upgrade should never be 6 points except on large bases and 3 points on small bases.

Says Darth ;-)

It's definitely more of an issue for big ships, but if you nerfed all the aces but Vader then it just means people play A LOT of Vader. If you want to play a staple like Vader in this 'What If?' scenario then I want to force you to make a compromise elsewhere to do so.

The compromise *is* playing Vader. He's great and all, but not as points efficient as the other Aces normally played

Soontir/OL/Palp is still viable and still very solid.

The compromise *is* playing Vader. He's great and all, but not as points efficient as the other Aces normally played

And Palpatine probably has to work a little bit harder to keep the two of them alive.

The Soontir/Palp/O.Leader is probably the go-to build if you don't want to make compromises on ship builds. You've got the full Palp/Fel experience but a bit less alongside it so Fel needs to do more of the work.

If you're taxing Chimps that way to fix Scouts, the fix to Scouts is to tax Scouts (either higher cost, removal of the EPT, or making them unique). Nothing else.

None of ehich are ways ffg would actually FIX the scout if they decide it needs it.

most of those are way too expensive at +2pts.

Gchips is 0pts because almost every ship that wants it is overcosted, it gives them back some of their value for free. Uboats are the only one that doesnt have this issue that actually can use ordnance effectively.

10pt palp would still get used, though it would force a budget ace instead of 2 high value aces. Same for PTL change, which would improve Vader as an Ace even further because he basically just got cheaper

really dont think autos/crack/tlt need a point hyke. Autos is there to counter the overpowered turret spam for a reason, if you arent using turrets it seldom does much. TLT already costs 6pts for a light-damage high accuracy turret. And i dont think ANYTHING thats 1use should be more than 1pt (looking at you Leia...)

I'm curious as to what the game would look like if costs were increased of some of the most common upgrades. Not necessarily to try and make what they 'should' cost but to try and break up common existing builds & combinations to force the whole of the top tier of lists down a notch into the rest of the pack. It's something Hearthstone do quite frequently - when they get bored of a card being too popular they don't just tweak the cost they often hammer it into the ground.

And yes, I'm not proposing that this is an easy option to actually implement because there's millions of cards around with the current cost so how do you get that errata out.

But please indulge my 'What If?' scenario and say..

What if the following cards all cost +2 points to equip?

• Emperor Palpatine
• Twin Laser Turret
• Push The Limit
• Engine Upgrade
• Autothrusters
• Crack Shot
• Guidance Chips

I've tried to specifically target most of the key existing tournament squads - Aces have to pay more for Palpatine and PTL, and they can't just go to Vader because Engine Upgrade is more expensive too. TIE Swarms can't spam Crack Shot onto everything, Dengaroo has to sacrifice to equip Manaroo the way they want to, Dash is more expensive, and Scouts have to sacrifice to bring Guidance Chips on everything. TLT was to stop people going back to the 4 Y-Wings, and then the last thing I added was Autothrusters just because if TLT took a knock I wanted other turrets to at least be viable.

None of these lists disappear entirely because all the cards are still available, they just have to make some compromises... is Fel worth 39pts (+2 PTL, +2 Autothrusters), on top of a 31pt Shuttle, leaving you not enough points for an Inquisitor as the 3rd ship? If Palp Aces was Soontir/Omega Leader/Shuttle would it be anywhere near as much of a problem?

So if all those lists take a knock then what rises up?

Guidance Chips is fine as-is.

Crackshot is fine as-is. It's necessary for it to be undercosted in order for 2 attack dice ships to be playable.

It's arguable whether or not TLT needs a cost increase, as quad TLT actually had a positive effect on the meta by finally stomping Fat Turretwing into the ground. People forget that, as much as the the wave 7 meta had problems, at least it wasn't entirely fat turrets like it was previous to wave 7. Quad TLT was certainly a problem, but it did more good than harm by shutting out fat turrets. But fine, let's make it cost 2 more points.

Boost in general could be fixed by making bank boost give you a stress, but making Engine Upgrade cost more points is fine I suppose. Maybe make it only cost more points for large bases?

All the rest of your fixes are fine. It'll be tough for me to swallow, but I'll be able to live without 5x Autothruster Alpha and it'll be worth losing it in order to fix the game at least somewhat.

On the surface it will seem like making PtL and Engine Upgrade and Autothrusters cost more will hurt things like A-Wings and Firesprays that rely on them, but half the reason they really on them is because everything else also has PtL, Engine Upgrade, and Autothrusters .

Don't forget to increase the cost of R2-D2 Astromech, R5-P9, and C-3PO.