As mentioned upthread, crackshot is the hard counter to palp. You see palp players so used to just getting their evade, and then you wipe it from existence.

Feels good man. At that Atlanta regional match I mentioned, that you've ignore for 2 pages, I was able to alpha the shuttle off the table, and he only got to palp once, which I cracked away. Tell me that was worth 8 points. Tell me it was worth close to 30.

While I completely disagree there's any power issues qith Palp Aces or at least not more issues than the other top tier squads,a single game is a single game, aka anecdotal evidence.

You cannot base a statement on what happened in a single game.

oh look another "nerf palp" thread. Its been what...2 days?

How do you guys not realize that he is just a master level troll? He doesn't care about your responses or care about having any type of meaningful discussion. He just wants to type things out that gets a rise out of people. Remember this is the guy who when he plays tries to make people upset and not have a good time because to him it's funny.

Got whipped by them pretty handily again recently, eh PGS?

I'm one of the only Palp Aces players in my area. I play it specifically because it's broken, and to keep track of how much value I get from Palpatine each game in order to prove just how broken he is.

Of course, when presented with this data, the response was that flying a 9 health Vessery or 6 health Inquisitor wasn't worth anything.

Wait, let me get this straight. You are feel the need to post repetitive topics about how broken Palp Aces are, but you claim that you are the only one playing palp aces in your area? Forgive my youthful ignorance, but wouldn't the solution to all of your woes be to stop playing Palp Aces?

How do you guys not realize that he is just a master level troll? He doesn't care about your responses or care about having any type of meaningful discussion. He just wants to type things out that gets a rise out of people. Remember this is the guy who when he plays tries to make people upset and not have a good time because to him it's funny.

How do you guys not realize that he is just a master level troll?

Point out the masterful part of it for me again?

How do you guys not realize that he is just a master level troll? He doesn't care about your responses or care about having any type of meaningful discussion. He just wants to type things out that gets a rise out of people. Remember this is the guy who when he plays tries to make people upset and not have a good time because to him it's funny.

Master level trolls are still just trolls. They are like whores a service provider. You can kick them to get a kick out of it. If he actually enjoys that, good for him. It is not like I have anything better to do when I am on the forums.

While I certainly don't agree with PGS there's no reason to be rude. Regardless of if you think he is trolling or rude there's no reason to resort to that as a response.

My counterargument to the classic '4 hits vs blank blank focus does nothing' is this. In order for a blank blank focus result to turn into 4 evades there are 4 pieces at work: 1) Focus token 2) Evade token 3) Autothrusters 4) Palpatine. Out of these, each plays their own role in dodging the damage and I think it's honestly hard to pinpoint any specific piece as the 'strongest' or 'most op'. I'll go through them from a general perspective and ignore things like Omega Leader or Carnor Jax as they are sort of 'outliers' and mess up the discussion.

Focus token: can be used on offence or defense, 1 use only, can change multiple results, very dice dependent.

Evade token: defense only, 1 use only, works without restriction, can cause evasion results > # of dice rolled, dice independent.

Autothrusters: defense only, range/arc restriction, works as many times per round as there are qualified shots, slightly dice dependent (requires a blank).

Palpatine: can be used on offence or defense, 1 use only, can change any result to any result, dice independent, relies on a different ship being alive to be used.

If you look at these, they all vary somewhat, and all have strengths and weaknesses. Autothrusters is easily stronger than Palpatine if you get several qualifying shots off in a around (ex: TLT), and Evade is stronger than Palpatine if you are taking more hits than you have evade dice (ex: well modified torpedo shots). Palpatine is stronger than the others if you need a wide variety of support but can afford to only need it 1x per round, and Focus is stronger than the others if we're talking about modifying a large number of attack dice, or situationally depending on rolls. The real 'issue' when fighting Palp aces is that they by themselves, as imperial aces have always tended to be are very strong and hard to kill. They usually have access to focus+evade stacking and the best ones also often have autothrusters. Because of this the inclusion of Palpatine with those already very strong ships makes them even harder to pop, but at the same time the lists can be countered in the same way focus+evade+thruster stacks are already countered: stress, attack spam, crack shot, blocking. Palp is a safety net and an power multiplier, but by himself in a vacuum, or when not paired with ships which are already very solid and strong in their own right he is not very good. A normal swarm with Palp in place of Howlrunner for instance would not be very strong since he does not have very high power levels to amplify compared to the standard of 2-3 strong imperial pocket aces.

Simply put, yes Palpatine is a good card but no Palpatine is not a broken or even undercosted card because he's not a blanket solution to everything, he's just a power multiplier on a group of ships which are already very powerful when things go their way.

I have played against Palp Aces a fair few times and only destroyed the shuttle once (with Porkins no less!).

In every game my opponent has gotten to a point where they've regretted using Palpatine too soon, or taken a risk to leave him for later and not needed him.

For 8 points, he should be used every turn as far as I'm concerned. Plus, if you put him on the board against me, he's my primary target every time. (No I don't win much).

How do you guys not realize that he is just a master level troll? He doesn't care about your responses or care about having any type of meaningful discussion. He just wants to type things out that gets a rise out of people. Remember this is the guy who when he plays tries to make people upset and not have a good time because to him it's funny.

Master level trolls are still just trolls. They are like whores a service provider. You can kick them to get a kick out of it.

Don't kick whores. They're people too.

Look at

Palpatine sure is fun to play WITH though!

It's fun as well to fly against. It tastes like america when you blow up that darn shuttle and know that those two aces are not going to cut it against your list on their own. But as mentioned, I am all for a Rebel Yoda who prevents once per turn any dice modification on a target. And on a timing which prevents palpatine from being used, but after the defensive roll has been made.

I am all for that,but i want to see palp effect trumph yoda effect. Go episode 3 with yoda getting the short end

I like the idea of Yoda in IA, but it doesn't do anything for me to see him in X-Wing.

Yes because obviously, if you lose, it must be that the opposition is OP. Let's forget that he takes up 8 points and two crew slots, his shuttle is awful as a ship, and his aces only have eight hitpoints combined, so obviously it must be OP.

The weaknesses of palp builds are well known and entirely exploitable if you are the superior player. Block them. Shoot at them with more than one ship. Don't let them trigger autothrusters. If you do these things, it takes insane luck to lose. Palp aces are not a jousting build. You can't complain that your one shot against a soontir with autothrusters, evade, focus, and palp doesn't connect. If he can spend all that with no worry of what shots come next, you just weren't in a winning position.

The weaknesses of palp builds are well known and entirely exploitable if you are the superior player.

On the other hand, isn't that true for every single list in this game, past or present ?

Do you ever get tired of complaining, OP?

Like, ever?

I'll just take your hypothetical matchup against Inquisitor and /x7 Vessery. I've killed both with my list, so I have a fair amount of experience dealing with them, though never in that exact combo.

I imagine I could just focus down the TIE Shuttle fairly easily, then treat the rest of the ships in the list as targets of opportunity.

Bombers, perhaps surprisingly to you, do not actually go down that easily. Two attacks will almost certainly not be enough, especially if you only have TLs (more on that below). Further I tend to run the shuttle behind my other ships and so it is not that easy to get to. You'll have to come through my list to get at the bomber. I've never had an opponent try and do what you just said you would do. They always go after my TIEs. Really smart players go after Rexlar, but that can be intimidating when he has two focus tokens, and often times doesn't do anything. "Go after the bomber first" sounds nice in theory, which is what you are going on, but hasn't actually worked for my opponents in practice.

that my Palpatine (if used offensively) can just autocrot them because it has no shields.

Here's where I know you've never run into a /D list before, particularly four ship /D lists that I've currently taken a liking too. You will not have either Palpatine or your focus/evade tokens for attacking. My list can and has one-shotted /x7 Defenders. You will spend everything to dodge the tractor beam. Or I'll just TB one of your ships onto an asteroid, or out of arc, or into range one of Mauler. But then that's why you're not going to have modifiers later, you will dodge it. Which will then be followed up by 3-4 more attacks. I will burn through all of your modifiers early and then get damage through with my TIEs.

An easy way of dealing with Palpaces is overwhelming firepower. It's something I've noticed a lot of players miss; they spend so much time trying to stay alive they miss the fact they're only putting out three three-dice attacks. My list puts out five attacks. It's also why I'm not a huge fan of /x7.

two remaining Acewings

I know you like to use that word, but just by using it doesn't in fact make your ships invincible. You will not be able to control range as much as you would like. I have PS on you with all of my ships that matter. You won't be able to arch dodge much either. I can and have taken out PS8 aces with a PS9 Mauler.

Mauler's ability only triggers at range 1.

It is trivial to get Mauler and Scourge into range 1. I do it literally all the time. They're TIEs, they're fast with barrel roll, and I abuse the 5-forward with wild abandon. Further you won't know where he is going, and so getting out of range 1 will be difficult for you. The Inquisitor hates getting into a brawl in the middle of the board, but that's exactly what my list does.

Scourge's ability only triggers if you have damage cards on one of my Acewings.

Or your shuttle. Why assume I go after your aces? Assuming my TIEs are at range one of the shuttle, I can put 14 red dice downrange at it, and you won't have agility because TB. That's actually overkill to a fair degree, I don't need them at range one to kill it. If we end up trading shuttle for shuttle (which assumes I blank on four evade dice, possible but I wouldn't bet on it), that's a trade I'm willing to make.

I don't think your list is bad per se, but your ships are a lot less invincible than you think they are, and they don't hurt as much as you think they will. If I kill one of your ships before you get to fire (which is quite possible), you will be in some serious trouble.

OGP with Palp, 2x x7 Defender, Wampa.

My list would literally eat this one alive. I've killed a three /x7 Defender list while only losing the shuttle. TB /D is a force multiplier the likes of which the game hasn't seen yet, it's goddamn unfair against one and two agility ships, and I think most people haven't quite figured that out yet.

I felt like defending my list, it did very well against the sorts of lists you peddle as being unbeatable.

I mean where is the force lightning?

I like the idea of Yoda in IA, but it doesn't do anything for me to see him in X-Wing.

Same. I really like the idea of Obi-wan though!

I'll just take your hypothetical matchup against Inquisitor and /x7 Vessery. I've killed both with my list, so I have a fair amount of experience dealing with them, though never in that exact combo.

I imagine I could just focus down the TIE Shuttle fairly easily, then treat the rest of the ships in the list as targets of opportunity.

Bombers, perhaps surprisingly to you, do not actually go down that easily. Two attacks will almost certainly not be enough, especially if you only have TLs (more on that below). Further I tend to run the shuttle behind my other ships and so it is not that easy to get to. You'll have to come through my list to get at the bomber. I've never had an opponent try and do what you just said you would do. They always go after my TIEs. Really smart players go after Rexlar, but that can be intimidating when he has two focus tokens, and often times doesn't do anything. "Go after the bomber first" sounds nice in theory, which is what you are going on, but hasn't actually worked for my opponents in practice.

that my Palpatine (if used offensively) can just autocrot them because it has no shields.

Here's where I know you've never run into a /D list before, particularly four ship /D lists that I've currently taken a liking too. You will not have either Palpatine or your focus/evade tokens for attacking. My list can and has one-shotted /x7 Defenders. You will spend everything to dodge the tractor beam. Or I'll just TB one of your ships onto an asteroid, or out of arc, or into range one of Mauler. But then that's why you're not going to have modifiers later, you will dodge it. Which will then be followed up by 3-4 more attacks. I will burn through all of your modifiers early and then get damage through with my TIEs.

An easy way of dealing with Palpaces is overwhelming firepower. It's something I've noticed a lot of players miss; they spend so much time trying to stay alive they miss the fact they're only putting out three three-dice attacks. My list puts out five attacks. It's also why I'm not a huge fan of /x7.

two remaining Acewings

I know you like to use that word, but just by using it doesn't in fact make your ships invincible. You will not be able to control range as much as you would like. I have PS on you with all of my ships that matter. You won't be able to arch dodge much either. I can and have taken out PS8 aces with a PS9 Mauler.

Mauler's ability only triggers at range 1.

It is trivial to get Mauler and Scourge into range 1. I do it literally all the time. They're TIEs, they're fast with barrel roll, and I abuse the 5-forward with wild abandon. Further you won't know where he is going, and so getting out of range 1 will be difficult for you. The Inquisitor hates getting into a brawl in the middle of the board, but that's exactly what my list does.

Scourge's ability only triggers if you have damage cards on one of my Acewings.

Or your shuttle. Why assume I go after your aces? Assuming my TIEs are at range one of the shuttle, I can put 14 red dice downrange at it, and you won't have agility because TB. That's actually overkill to a fair degree, I don't need them at range one to kill it. If we end up trading shuttle for shuttle (which assumes I blank on four evade dice, possible but I wouldn't bet on it), that's a trade I'm willing to make.

I don't think your list is bad per se, but your ships are a lot less invincible than you think they are, and they don't hurt as much as you think they will. If I kill one of your ships before you get to fire (which is quite possible), you will be in some serious trouble.

OGP with Palp, 2x x7 Defender, Wampa.

My list would literally eat this one alive. I've killed a three /x7 Defender list while only losing the shuttle. TB /D is a force multiplier the likes of which the game hasn't seen yet, it's goddamn unfair against one and two agility ships, and I think most people haven't quite figured that out yet.

I felt like defending my list, it did very well against the sorts of lists you peddle as being unbeatable.

Yes because obviously, if you lose, it must be that the opposition is OP. Let's forget that he takes up 8 points and two crew slots, his shuttle is awful as a ship, and his aces only have eight hitpoints combined, so obviously it must be OP.

Ok, lets get this straight. No matter what side of the fence you stand on on Palp, these things should be understood by all-

1st) paying 8 squad points and 2 crew slots for Palpatine's ability is not a heavy tax. If it was, he wouldn't be used in 50% or more of Imperial builds in tournament play, and more than that in imperial builds which make the cut. While you can argue that he isn't broken, you can't argue that he is fine simply because of his price.

2nd) The Lambda is not an awful ship. It has great upgrade slots (systems and crew are arguably the best upgrade slots in the game outside of EPTs), a hunk of health behind 1 agility, and 3 primary attack (I swear people forget this all the time. That's 4 attack dice at range 1 people). The main culprit for players believing it is an awful ship is its very poor dial. But good players are able to work with this with little issue. Dom Cairo, one of the X-wing greats, took 3 Lambdas and Soontir to victory in the Galactic Cup in 2014. Dated, yes, but that certainly wasn't the last time the Doom shuttle saw top level play.

3rd) The fact that those aces have less hitpoints means they have more dice for Palp to effect. Saying they "only have 8 hit points combined" pretends that agility doesn't exist. Unless we have a meta that starts fielding autoblasters everywhere, or ships which have no problem keeping these ships in 2 or more arcs at the same time that are rolling 3 or 4 dice, they are more than happy to trade hull and shields for extra agility.

My list would literally eat this one alive. I've killed a three /x7 Defender list while only losing the shuttle. TB /D is a force multiplier the likes of which the game hasn't seen yet, it's goddamn unfair against one and two agility ships, and I think most people haven't quite figured that out yet.

I felt like defending my list, it did very well against the sorts of lists you peddle as being unbeatable.

Well defended. And I'm pleased to hear someone using the TIE/D title to good affect.

Can you share that list again?

How do you guys not realize that he is just a master level troll? He doesn't care about your responses or care about having any type of meaningful discussion. He just wants to type things out that gets a rise out of people. Remember this is the guy who when he plays tries to make people upset and not have a good time because to him it's funny.

Master level trolls are still just trolls. They are like whores a service provider. You can kick them to get a kick out of it.

Don't kick whores. They're people too.

I fly imperial aces a lot and almost never use the emperor. If the emperor is all that where was he in this year's tournaments

I get the impression that Palpatine has a limit: he'll make an okay player good but he demands a 29 point shuttle: he gets progressively less useful at higher levels where the shuttle is more proficiently countered and its lesser combat power bites more. At the very top I don't know if he'll cut it as well.