Actions Cards and Traits - Wardancer example

By brumcg, in WFRP Rules Questions

Sorry for posting this... I know it's been discussed at length without a clear response from FFG, but I haven't seen anything since the Adventurer's Kit has come out and now there are even more situations like this.

Can a non-Wardancer take Ritual Dances Action Cards?

The Adventurer's Kit insert says this: "The Way of the Sword represents they masterful combat abilities of the Sword Masters of Hoeth. The Wardancers of Athel Loren practice various Ritual Dances . The elite dwarf Ironbreakers use abilities inspired by their Ancestors ."

Again, I want to infer (and I will houserule anyway) that only those careers can take those cards. I just wish it actually said that... I completely realize that Action Cards are just a series of game effects, but then I don't understand why the cards have specific flavor.

I had similar thoughts building an archer elf and looking at Hunter, Scout and Waywatcher, then action cards, "oh the Bullseye Shot is so good for woodland elf that snipes from cover motif, has "watcher" trait, does that mean I have to be in the Waywatcher career with that trait to take it or could I be Hunter or Scout and still take it?

We got an "official response" in the FAQ.

Traits have no mechanic unless they do.

So in the spirit of a loosely defined rule set, I have house ruled that some traits do in fact act as restrictions. No one else in my group seems to mind. And in fact it fits right in to what they expect.

Although, to be fair the only trait that has been house ruled in this manner is Slayer .

The Adventurer's Toolkit speaks to some of the new action cards as representing unique fighting styles and lists The Way of the Sword as representing the masterful combat abilities of the Sword Masters of Hoeth. Similarly, the Wardancers of Athel Loren practice various Ritual Dances and Dwarf Ironbreakers use abilities inspired by their Ancestors.

The wording in the AT implies that action cards with these respective traits are available only to those careers; however, there is nothing in the rules to back this up.

From the Rulebook:

"Traits : Card traits appear in italics below the card name. Traits help identify what kind of action a card represents. By itself, an individual trait does not perform a function. However, other cards and effects can interact with a trait. For example, one action may state it allows a character to perform a Basic Melee Attack after performing the action. This refers to traits on other cards, and a card with matching traits would be eligible for the effect."

The FAQ restates and clarifies this:

"Traits in and of themselves do not “do” anything or have a specific,
pre-defined meaning or definition. Traits are terms that other rules
or effects can “look for” to allow different game elements to interact
with each other."

Based on this, it appears that it is possible by the rules for anyone that meets the Requirements listed on the card to use them. So even a human could perform Ritual Dances and a Dwarf could take cards with The Way of the Sword trait, just as there is nothing to prevent anyone that has a Melee weapon equipped that is engaged with a target while outnumbered or facing an opponent that is physically larger than them from using Troll-Feller Strike. Note that in the case of the Pet trait, all these cards have a pet as part of the requirements, so this is not an issue. Since the only way (currently) to have a pet is to be a Rat Catcher, or to have completed the Rat Catcher career, they are the only ones that will qualify for the action cards with the Pet trait.

For the rest, I'll be houseruling them to characters that are either in or have completed the appropriate career. For example, the Ritual Dance cards are most useful when you have multiple cards with this trait. There are 7 of them and a Wardancer can take only 4 of them as Career advancements (one general & 3 from the career). Similarly there are 7 Way of the Sword and 7 Ancestor cards, but Swordmasters and Ironbreakers can only take 3 action cards while in those careers. By allowing these cards to be taken by a character that has completed the appropriate career, they can eventually acquire all of them if they want. Note that Sword Masters and Ironbreakers already have the restriction that you can't exit the career without completing it and you can't keep a SBVD pet without completing Rat Catcher, so it makes sense to me at least that the additional action cards be limited to those that have completed the appropriate career rather than just passed through.

This seems more in line with the fluff as I cannot imagine a Sword Master ever trying to teach Stooping Hawk Leap to a Dwarf or a Dwarf wanting to learn it for that matter and it will keep players from looking at the mechanical effects of the cards only when making choices. On the other hand, it's hard to put a fluff rationale in place for how characters manafest these new abilities in the first place since they can take them at the end of any session and there's no in game implication that actual training of any kind is required. Then again, you can become trained in a Skill for your career without having used it at all during the course of adventuring and it's not like you have to seek out a tutor to train you either. I suppose characters are assumed to be studying, practicing, or otherwise engaged in improving themselves during the off screen time.

mac40k said:

There are 7 of them and a Wardancer can take only 4 of them as Career advancements (one general & 3 from the career). Similarly there are 7 Way of the Sword and 7 Ancestor cards, but Swordmasters and Ironbreakers can only take 3 action cards while in those careers.

Dont have the adventurers kit yet but cant you take some of the cards at creation too, up to 4 actions with the maximum points allocation so ever career could take all the cards in their first career.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong

Krisstoff said:

Dont have the adventurers kit yet but cant you take some of the cards at creation too, up to 4 actions with the maximum points allocation so ever career could take all the cards in their first career.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong

You are correct. If a character starts in one of those careers and takes the maximum actions with creation points and no other actions while in that career, then yes, they would end up with all 7 that way. Characters moving into the career later on would still face the limitation putting them at a disadvantage to a character that was fortunate enough to start in that career. On the one hand, you could view this as appropriate since you would be assuming that the character that starts in the career spent more time in it before becoming an adventurer. On the other hand, trying to come up with an in-game rationale for how a High Elf suddenly becomes a Sword Master at some point without a significant amount of down time could be challenging as well.

It has been mentioned that GMs are free to allow additional purchases within a career once it has been completed, and before the character moves to another career, if they so desire.

Also, keep in mind that at some point there will probably be an Advanced version of all 3 of these careers (or something similar).

Lastest FAQ answers OP as I did. Short version, no restriction (meaning anyone can take actions with the Ritual Dance trait), but GMs are free to create their own limitations. I'm modifying my house rule to normally impose a restriction since I just can't accept average Joe Reiklander running around doing Way of the Sword actions (for example) without a serious in-story rationale on how they could acquire them. However, should said situation present itself in game, I would relax this.

mac40k said:

Lastest FAQ answers OP as I did. Short version, no restriction (meaning anyone can take actions with the Ritual Dance trait), but GMs are free to create their own limitations. I'm modifying my house rule to normally impose a restriction since I just can't accept average Joe Reiklander running around doing Way of the Sword actions (for example) without a serious in-story rationale on how they could acquire them. However, should said situation present itself in game, I would relax this.

Agreed, I will be having a similar House Rule.

The easiest solution is to take the same card, and rename/retheme it. Mechanically, it'll just work the same, but you can just describe it as some fancy new combat style out of Tilea or something.

Actually the "easiest" solution is to not allow players who arent of the appropriate class to take them

=P

I get what you are saying though and it could work - I will probably reserve them to the signature classes to give them something "special" though.

What if it costs more XP per trait that isn't in line with your career, similar to the careers? Of course, the GM will have to determine what is "in line," but if a player really wants that ability, they can pay extra for it.