Do minion group ships not get system strain similar to personal combat minions who don't get strain? Instead any system strain dealt to minion group ships is treated as hull damage?

This is correct.

This is correct.

Thanks!

This is correct.

Do minion group ships not get system strain similar to personal combat minions who don't get strain? Instead any system strain dealt to minion group ships is treated as hull damage?

No, they still have SS. They are grouped with combined thresholds and spillover damage along with instant knock outs by critical hits. Assuming the pilots are minions too, then they have the group skills as minion groups usually do.

This is correct.

Do minion group ships not get system strain similar to personal combat minions who don't get strain? Instead any system strain dealt to minion group ships is treated as hull damage?

No, they still have SS. They are grouped with combined thresholds and spillover damage along with instant knock outs by critical hits. Assuming the pilots are minions too, then they have the group skills as minion groups usually do.

Its the personal Strain Threshold they don't have. They are also not able to suffer personal strain to perform 2 maneuvers and an action in a single turn, even if their ship would normally be capable of this. Basically the ship can suffer strain but the pilots cant.

This is correct.

Do minion group ships not get system strain similar to personal combat minions who don't get strain? Instead any system strain dealt to minion group ships is treated as hull damage?

No, they still have SS. They are grouped with combined thresholds and spillover damage along with instant knock outs by critical hits. Assuming the pilots are minions too, then they have the group skills as minion groups usually do.

Its the personal Strain Threshold they don't have. They are also not able to suffer personal strain to perform 2 maneuvers and an action in a single turn, even if their ship would normally be capable of this. Basically the ship can suffer strain but the pilots cant.

Ok, I was using ogg dudes character creator and have an encounter set up with minions with spaceships. The encounter sheet it prints out for the minion ships has the check boxes (the number being a multiple of the hull value depending on the number of minions in the group) for hull damage buy does not have similar ones for system strain. That's why I assumed that minion ships don't get system strain. I'll have to tack system hits myself then.

Hi,

Just a quick introduction: I'm a new player/GM from Germany and I have yet to play my first real session in this system, but I did some test encounters especially for star ships and vehicles to familiarise myself with the rules and mechanics side of the game. I have been reading through the forums for the last couple of months and decided it was time to join the discussions .

I still don't quite get the use of the minion rules for star ship combat.

This is correct.

Do minion group ships not get system strain similar to personal combat minions who don't get strain? Instead any system strain dealt to minion group ships is treated as hull damage?

No, they still have SS. They are grouped with combined thresholds and spillover damage along with instant knock outs by critical hits. Assuming the pilots are minions too, then they have the group skills as minion groups usually do.

I would like to know, how exactly you or other forum members run this. The rules only state, that the vehicle minion groups "take damage as a group", therefore IMHO a group threshold for Hull Trauma should work like the Minion group threshold for Wounds. Easy enough. Unfortunately the rules don't mention System Strain in the "Vehicle and Minions" section at all. Do you form a combined System Strain threshold, too? If so, how does that work?

If you take e.g. a minion group of 5 Ties and they downgrade their action to a second maneuver, would the Ties suffer only 2 System Strain to their group threshold, or would each Tie suffer 2 System Strain, i.e. a total of 10 System Strain to the group threshold, knocking one of them out.

The problem with the latter option is that it knocks a vehicle out that normally would have been fine.

The problem I have with the first option is, that it allows minions to do crazy stuff with low System Strain vehicles (like swoop bikes) which the PCs can't: E.g. a group of X Minions on swoops could use the Punch It and Fly/Drive maneuvers in one round, suffering 5 System Strain and sacrificing one of their swoop bikes, while the remaining (X-1) bikes go at full speed. If the PCs would each try the same, all their bikes would exceed their respective System Strain limit.

Looking forward to all the great ideas this community has to offer,

Cheers

GM Fred

Is there a reference for the rules of using minions in starships? I haven't done this myself yet, but it seems like it would cause some problems.

Is there a reference for the rules of using minions in starships? I haven't done this myself yet, but it seems like it would cause some problems.

Yes, AOR core book, "Minions and Vehicles" pg. 252

This is correct.

Do minion group ships not get system strain similar to personal combat minions who don't get strain? Instead any system strain dealt to minion group ships is treated as hull damage?

No, they still have SS. They are grouped with combined thresholds and spillover damage along with instant knock outs by critical hits. Assuming the pilots are minions too, then they have the group skills as minion groups usually do.

Its the personal Strain Threshold they don't have. They are also not able to suffer personal strain to perform 2 maneuvers and an action in a single turn, even if their ship would normally be capable of this. Basically the ship can suffer strain but the pilots cant.

Ok, I was using ogg dudes character creator and have an encounter set up with minions with spaceships. The encounter sheet it prints out for the minion ships has the check boxes (the number being a multiple of the hull value depending on the number of minions in the group) for hull damage buy does not have similar ones for system strain. That's why I assumed that minion ships don't get system strain. I'll have to tack system hits myself then.

OggDude's gen is a fantastic tool, but always remember it's something some guy just put together in his basement. So as amazing as he is, he's not super human and can't always account for every little fiddly rules situation.

Like the Force, it functions best as a tool, not a crutch.

That's probably the worst thing I'll ever say about it.

Hi,

Just a quick introduction: I'm a new player/GM from Germany and I have yet to play my first real session in this system, but I did some test encounters especially for star ships and vehicles to familiarise myself with the rules and mechanics side of the game. I have been reading through the forums for the last couple of months and decided it was time to join the discussions .

I still don't quite get the use of the minion rules for star ship combat.

This is correct.

Do minion group ships not get system strain similar to personal combat minions who don't get strain? Instead any system strain dealt to minion group ships is treated as hull damage?

No, they still have SS. They are grouped with combined thresholds and spillover damage along with instant knock outs by critical hits. Assuming the pilots are minions too, then they have the group skills as minion groups usually do.

I would like to know, how exactly you or other forum members run this. The rules only state, that the vehicle minion groups "take damage as a group", therefore IMHO a group threshold for Hull Trauma should work like the Minion group threshold for Wounds. Easy enough. Unfortunately the rules don't mention System Strain in the "Vehicle and Minions" section at all. Do you form a combined System Strain threshold, too? If so, how does that work?

If you take e.g. a minion group of 5 Ties and they downgrade their action to a second maneuver, would the Ties suffer only 2 System Strain to their group threshold, or would each Tie suffer 2 System Strain, i.e. a total of 10 System Strain to the group threshold, knocking one of them out.

The problem with the latter option is that it knocks a vehicle out that normally would have been fine.

The problem I have with the first option is, that it allows minions to do crazy stuff with low System Strain vehicles (like swoop bikes) which the PCs can't: E.g. a group of X Minions on swoops could use the Punch It and Fly/Drive maneuvers in one round, suffering 5 System Strain and sacrificing one of their swoop bikes, while the remaining (X-1) bikes go at full speed. If the PCs would each try the same, all their bikes would exceed their respective System Strain limit.

Looking forward to all the great ideas this community has to offer,

Cheers

GM Fred

I track a single amount of the System Strain, representing every ship suffering the same amount of strain, so whether there is 1 Tie or 8 there is only 1 pool of SS. If the SS is exceeded then the entire squadron is taken out of the encounter. I do it that way to simplify things, its probably not RAI.

This is correct.

Do minion group ships not get system strain similar to personal combat minions who don't get strain? Instead any system strain dealt to minion group ships is treated as hull damage?

No, they still have SS. They are grouped with combined thresholds and spillover damage along with instant knock outs by critical hits. Assuming the pilots are minions too, then they have the group skills as minion groups usually do.

Wow, yeah, I COMPLETELY misread the OP.

I track a single amount of the System Strain, representing every ship suffering the same amount of strain, so whether there is 1 Tie or 8 there is only 1 pool of SS. If the SS is exceeded then the entire squadron is taken out of the encounter. I do it that way to simplify things, its probably not RAI.

Yeah, that actually works pretty well for the System Strain they recieve due to maneuvers or threat on their own piloting checks, since all their ships are taking the same maneuvers. But it becomes somewhat problematic when the PCs deal System Strain to the Minion starship group through slicing, or advanteges on attacks, since they could easily take out the whole squadron with a good check where normally only a single ship would be affected. Maybe one could deal the System Strain caused by the PCs to the minion group's Hull Trauma Threshold instead? Or have each Minion Starship have their own System Strain Threshold.

The more I think about it, the more I would like to just drop the System Strain for Minion Starships entirely and just deal all of it towards the minion group's Hull Trauma threshold like with the normal minions. Anyone else think that this might actually be RAI?

I track a single amount of the System Strain, representing every ship suffering the same amount of strain, so whether there is 1 Tie or 8 there is only 1 pool of SS. If the SS is exceeded then the entire squadron is taken out of the encounter. I do it that way to simplify things, its probably not RAI.

Yeah, that actually works pretty well for the System Strain they recieve due to maneuvers or threat on their own piloting checks, since all their ships are taking the same maneuvers. But it becomes somewhat problematic when the PCs deal System Strain to the Minion starship group through slicing, or advanteges on attacks, since they could easily take out the whole squadron with a good check where normally only a single ship would be affected. Maybe one could deal the System Strain caused by the PCs to the minion group's Hull Trauma Threshold instead? Or have each Minion Starship have their own System Strain Threshold.

The more I think about it, the more I would like to just drop the System Strain for Minion Starships entirely and just deal all of it towards the minion group's Hull Trauma threshold like with the normal minions. Anyone else think that this might actually be RAI?

I'm pretty sure the devs said at one point that the ships take System Strain as normal with minion groups. I would probably do a combined System Strain pool like with Hull Trauma; sure, they could do maneuvers that PCs normally couldn't do, but at the cost of their action. Doesn't seem too bad to me