App-related Issues.

By cheeseburglar, in Mansions of Madness

For many of us an app-dependent game is just as likely to be a hindrance as a help, so how it's handled is exceptionally important. I really love Mansions and try to ignore it's current flaws, so I'm tentatively excited about a new version. The app seems to me the most crucial, easiest to "break" part of the equation.

Likely the biggest possible issue for an app-dependent property like Mansions, is obsolescence. Just like every pc game you bought in the nineties, eventually the app will no longer be supported, which is fine as long as we have a device that runs the OS the app is native to. But soon, OSes are no longer supported, then the hardware moves on, and the best you can do is get a hardware/os emulator. Not really a solution for the average gamer. This means our game may have a shelf-life tied to the next few generations of hardware (say six years or so). To solve this, I'd suggest that the app speed and supplement play, but that an app-less variant be included in-box - otherwise customers may end up with a box of worthless components.

Someone else has brought up the important problem of app crashes and resuming games. If the game doesn't save often and securely, you could lose a game half way in or near the end. This could make the game unplayable, depending on how often. It's been stated before, but the importance of a solid app with a fully functional 'resume' feature can't be over-stated.

Often times the look of the app is of chief concern, which results in a decent looking app that can be unresponsive, unwieldy or exceptionally slow. In the Arkham Horror app for instance, to flip cards it would often take the app near 2 seconds on some hardware/os pairings. So you'd have to hit the screen twice, then you'd finally get to see the card back and read it. This was much easier to do with the physical cards, because the app took too long for us to use. It may have been fixed in later versions, we just gave on up on it (??) but the point still stands.

Keep in mind also, that though most software engineers design on the fastest hardware, most players will be using older slower platforms, at least eventually. If we're losing up to a second and a half of real life (a non-replenishable resource) for every two player inputs/card flips/whatever because the animation looks cool, is slow, or our hardware/os is slow - the app is getting in the way. If we can't get to the information we need to play instantaneously, it's effectively a *broken* app (which means a broken game in this instance).

Also consider how many touches, swipes, or wait states we have to see to input information, choose a screen element, or begin actual play (not the app). Again, it must be fast fast fast on the oldest hardware, or it doesn't matter how cool it looks (and the "cool" factor wears off by second play-through, so of limited value).

And just as a suggestion I hope at some point players may be able to remove some of the game/gm's powers (sometimes we play with our kids, and remove the hardest spells), or other game elements to speed solo or advanced play. Some suggestions would be, instantaneous combat (no more reading card backs), removing or negating in-game hiding mechanics, skipping puzzles by substituting skill rolls (some players find those elements gimmicky and unnecessary, would rather not pass their hardware around the table to people with gamer hands), removing darkness or fire, etc. Anything that can make repeat play hum through slower parts. A lot of us get relatively short table time as it is.

Although I hope for a fast, lean, bulletproof app, these are my worries, I'd love to hear what you guys think.

Keep in mind for many of us, an app-dependent game is just as likely to be a hindrance as a help, so how it's handled is exceptionally important. Some of us really love Mansions, and try to ignore it's flaws and are really looking forward to an improvement! Here's hoping the app's fast, lean, and bulletproof!

Hi

As requested for what I think:

Dont agree about app longevity but thats covered in another thread so I wont repeat here.

For saving, its been noted (somewhere) that there is a kind of live-save in the app so while its s genuine concern, the hope is there that theyve covered that.

I agree app smoothness and speed is a big factor but until we see the app running, we dont know if theyve resolved this already ir not, so Id say that in respect to FFG current development team we should wait and see on that one.

Agreed lets hope for fast and smooth :)

You have a point there, cheeseburglar. Who thought we'd see the day where we had to worry about 'system requirements' for a board game (besides table size). If the PC version of the App is solely available and dependent on Steam, we'll have to deal with DRM issues as well. :mellow:

Dont know if Mansion of Madness has a difficulty selection like Descent app, but this still a boardgame, you are not necessary binded to everything the app instruct and you can simple skip or make variants to the gameplay like yours sugestions. The app its not a videogame,its only a tool to the game. Second, if like Descent, the auto saves are plenty, if for some reason the device crash or running with low battery for example, you will not lost everything.

In the longevity question, sorry, I desagree, for the same reason you says the technology change, which prevents them from also update/change/optimize the app ? Nothing I guess . And you can play in the Steam plataform if you worry about devices.

People are very concerned about how the game will become obsolete here about 10 years without being sure of what will actually happen , instead of worrying about playing the game.

They really do a great job on the FFG support software channel , so, I expect the same here. Playing Road to Legend almost three months and its a great experience - in four different devices without any big problem. The unique problem is a miss of a undo button to correct mistakes, but this is not the end of the world.

And yes, I am still playing games from 80/90's here ;)

Dont know if Mansion of Madness has a difficulty selection like Descent app, but this still a boardgame, you are not necessary binded to everything the app instruct and you can simple skip or make variants to the gameplay like yours sugestions. The app its not a videogame,its only a tool to the game. Second, if like Descent, the auto saves are plenty, if for some reason the device crash or running with low battery for example, you will not lost everything.

In the longevity question, sorry, I desagree, for the same reason you says the technology change, which prevents them from also update/change/optimize the app ? Nothing I guess . And you can play in the Steam plataform if you worry about devices.

People are very concerned about how the game will become obsolete here about 10 years without being sure of what will actually happen , instead of worrying about playing the game.

They really do a great job on the FFG support software channel , so, I expect the same here. Playing Road to Legend almost three months and its a great experience - in four different devices without any big problem. The unique problem is a miss of a undo button to correct mistakes, but this is not the end of the world.

And yes, I am still playing games from 80/90's here ;)

Just curious how many of those games from the 80's that you still play are board games with an included VCR tape? I remember playing those types of games alot and it has been a while since I've walked into a game store / home with a working VCR making those games unplayable now so this to me IS a valid concern...

Likely the biggest possible issue for an app-dependent property like Mansions, is obsolescence. Just like every pc game you bought in the nineties, eventually the app will no longer be supported, which is fine as long as we have a device that runs the OS the app is native to. But soon, OSes are no longer supported, then the hardware moves on, and the best you can do is get a hardware/os emulator. Not really a solution for the average gamer. This means our game may have a shelf-life tied to the next few generations of hardware (say six years or so).

Most games will need taking care of to last ten+ years. Sleeves, storage in the right conditions, handling the cards carefully etc. That's no different to the app, it's just form that care takes is different. The average gamer doesn't sleeve either, so a game is not going to stand up to seven years of regular play physically anyway.

Incredible that this negative view of old software is STILL supported by some gamers.

Listen, I play ALL games from the 80's, 90's or a decade ago without any problems as this software is emulated by present day computers.

Tanktics, Dniepr River Line and the very good Close Assault are just EXAMPLES of early 1980 HYBRID boardgames from Avalon Hill that are played by me on a regular basis... on my Surface tablet/portable.

Actually: My original TAPE was for the Atari 400/800 system and Apple 2 ... both devices were no longer produced almost 30 years ago ... and the old Avalon Hill went out of business in 1996... 20 years ago...

For God's sake the above game's software can now even be played from a web browser through a PC...

As the MoM2 software is already available on 4(!) different OS, one of which is the open Windows system, I bet you a 1000 dollars this software will be available through your entire life time, just like ALL software from Apple2's, Commodore 64, Ataris.

Just to mention: the above 3 examples had ... a print run of 2000 ... boardgame copies, so I would like FOR ONCE these arguments of old software stops (end remark: that Apple does not support old Apps is just that: it is the closed box mentality of this company, ... but I run ALL older apple software on .... the open Windows machines btw ...).

In fact, these 35 year old boardgames with software supported AI, are as xpensive as other rare boardgames from that period. Their value depends on the state of the board and playing pieces, not on the software you can find with Google in a blink of an eye...

Edited by BenBos1302

Well I've stated this point and it's being waxed over or unread, so I'll restate it quickly. Not the main point but bears repeating. Many pieces are software *are still unsupported*. No matter how many hard drives you fill with working emulators and roms, there are still some things that just won't run. Is that the way IOS and steam are likely to go, not really. Is having a working emu/rom of the app a sure thing? No. Is it easy for the average boardgame player? No. Is it a valid concern to voice then? I think it is.

Or you could just not worry and get at least 10 years' worth of gameplay out of a great game.

Dont know if Mansion of Madness has a difficulty selection like Descent app, but this still a boardgame, you are not necessary binded to everything the app instruct and you can simple skip or make variants to the gameplay like yours sugestions. The app its not a videogame,its only a tool to the game. Second, if like Descent, the auto saves are plenty, if for some reason the device crash or running with low battery for example, you will not lost everything.

In the longevity question, sorry, I desagree, for the same reason you says the technology change, which prevents them from also update/change/optimize the app ? Nothing I guess . And you can play in the Steam plataform if you worry about devices.

People are very concerned about how the game will become obsolete here about 10 years without being sure of what will actually happen , instead of worrying about playing the game.

They really do a great job on the FFG support software channel , so, I expect the same here. Playing Road to Legend almost three months and its a great experience - in four different devices without any big problem. The unique problem is a miss of a undo button to correct mistakes, but this is not the end of the world.

And yes, I am still playing games from 80/90's here ;)

Just curious how many of those games from the 80's that you still play are board games with an included VCR tape? I remember playing those types of games alot and it has been a while since I've walked into a game store / home with a working VCR making those games unplayable now so this to me IS a valid concern...

While you can copy your VHS to a DVD with a working VCR, DVR and small cheap AV cable, thus problem solved, its often not necessary because the vast majority of those games have fans and they have uploaded the full VHS tapes to Youtube, Eg: the atmosphere games etc.

Google them, its actually quite fun to see.

So they are still fully playable streaming offline to a smart-tv, tablet, phone or PC or you can use a youtube downloader and burn your own DVD or blu-ray to keep in your box.

Just saying, not to further argument but to help out if anyone does still have those games but no longer a VCR.

There are also links on BGG for people (fans) who have made digitised ISO files of these type of games as well as the fact a few of the more popular ones have been re-released on DVD since (which admittedly doesnt make your original copy work, but is just extra info).

I found a strange bug today while trying to output my iPad into an HDTV with a digital AV adapter (HDMI).

The app crashed outright.

Any of you guys met this kind of issue in the past?

Edited by Shirys