So let's drift away from the 8 new characters and talk about everybody else.

How has the newest set impacted older characters? Who got better? Worse? Stayed the same?

The first two characters I immediately thought of with this set were Hilde and Cassandra. Hilde's always been amazing, but this set definitely pushed her to the top. She's pretty much been a no-brainer Fire character, but with this set, Order/Good gives her a serious run for her money as she is given access to Amy's dreadful block modifier-raising cards, as well as Yoshimitsu's interesting Order tech. Cassandra is now another character that can feasibly be ran off of Life due to Mitsurugi's cards perhaps working best with her (in that she is the only other character with Life and Fire).

Plenty of things to tinker with:

Algol off Void now has even more "discard due to effect" cards that go along with Alshain Najm. Pavilion, Bad Stomach, and Meditating in Battle all work very well in their own right, as well as Excellent Thief to help Algol benefit from their discarding. Ivy can also utilize the discard since she can draw out of it in a pinch.

Nightmare's always been one of those "he will get better with time characters", and by now, I feel he's ready to compete. Truthfully it doesn't matter his symbol, the name of Nightmare's game is to slowly kill the opponent. You do so by destroying the opponent's foundations, meaning that while he doesn't kill as quickly as most, he has a bit more insurance in that they will be too slowed to be able to catch up. Off Fire, Nightmare can abuse the hell out of Throws + Mist Stance + Jyurakudai, changing them all to high attacks to benefit from the static. Death Nightmare's always been my favorite though, using Cursed Blood to out-pace the opponent, Tekken Forces when he falls behind, as well as his Terrain to keep them behind for good. Now he has discard, a good option for trying to get to their vitality and destroying their cards.

Anyways, that's about it from me for now. What say you?

I love what Mitsu's support does for Steve Fox . Sure, he still is suspect to Pommel Smash (as are a lot of other characters), but his ability to ensure that his first Punch attack lands, so his other attacks get the floating +2 spd pump is much greater. And, thanks to Mitsu's support, he really can play like a Boxer, whereas he throws only 1 or 2 attacks on his turn - Hammer of the Gods + Turn Thruster is still a brutal one-two combo. Then on his turn, he can Rope-a-Dope with his momentum and counter-punch with Gut Drills.

Mitsu's support also makes Steve Fox's ability to play All/Fire duality much more fluid.

Oh yeah, Steve Fox is where it's at, and thanks to Mitsu, he doesn't HAVE to side into Paul to get that necessary aggro bump. I rebuilt Fire Fox, and while All About Steve is where it's at, Fantastic Mr Fox is definitely a good deal since he sacrifices Gut Drill (we're talking all Fire versuses All here) for Blazing Fists, and they're much easier to kill with thanks to Looking for a Thrill and his E. Also, props to your mention of Hammer of the Gods Turn Thruster, but you neglected to tack on Blazing Fists + Ascending Zephyr to that combo ;D

Still, despite Steve's buffs, I'm more partial to Paul. Paul does Gut Drill better IMO, and I happen to like Paul's killing speed (and control with Gut Drill) over Steve's. Never the less, both are amazing, top tier characters.

I'm also looking into trying Life Ivy and perhaps Chaos or Death Padma. Padma is simply a glass cannon that is too good to pass up on.

I didn't mention Hammer + Turn + Blazing, not because it ain't any good; it is! Rather, i just play Steve Fox a bit different than you.

You have to let me know how Padma turns out for you. I have her, and have thought about building her for quite sometime, but i just can't bring myself around to it. Maybe she's a bit trickier than i prefer? Dunno...tons of new characters have caught my eye in the meantime, especially an Air/Life Xianghua build i've been kickin' around in my brain. I just lack the cards to test her out at the moment. Ah well...such is life. : /

I much like the thought of plaing 4 Throws without any boosts can kill any 7 hander that isn't packing damage reduction.

But yeah, Padma definitely can't be played brainlessly. Her amazing R needs to be balanced with some control, which is why I'm considering Chaos since Stun will help weave through her common enemies of The Ultimate Team and Stand Off. For the Money and Intolerant of Failure is just too good a combo for her.

I'm liking all Ivy now. With Mitsurugi's support I'm thinking of building her off of all now.

I'm liking the sound of Nightmare + Tekken Forces. TF-generated cardes make awesome Intimidating Presence fodder.

who got better imo?

umm Astrid? Hilde? even christie got a boost.

Nightmare is just crazy.. he actually gives me nightmares xD

Life in general got a boost, so that means Generic Character #1 AKA Yi Shan got ones as well. Lunging Brush Fire is key in the deck as it is needed acceleration. Mitsurugi's foundations, like Looking for a Thrill or Need a Challenge (the 3/5 balanced Bitter Rivals) allow him to push his attacks through. Generally, a Yi Shan kill turn will begin on T3, and end on T4 after his momentum is all set-up. Even if you do deny his E, Tien Lei : Iron Thunder will place you in a precarious position regardless. If he so needs, the Pendant can fetch any attack he wishes, too.

His biggest problem was that he requires set-up and couldn't defend himself well from attacks, what with being one of the most squishy 6 HS characters around. Mitsurugi's stuff allow him to be playable off of Life.

Algol....or as i have been calling him, Failgol.

I WANT him to work so bad....and he has gotten better...but he is still terrible.

Half the non-attacks he runs are 3diff, and the other half are 4 controls, and nothing has a block. He is fun for casual play, and i love getting his 2 swords out with a pavilion, but he is way too slow and just fails miserably in todays meta.

Almost any algol deck can get better by removing his asssets and replacing him with lizardman, lol.

Maybe i will tinker with him more tonight and run him saturday for fun...but yeah he is WAY slow, has no speed pumps (in void), and just generally seems to fall short. The biggest thing is his difficulty curve, like i said he has really high average difficulty and really low control values.

Hilde got better, Lu Chen got an upgrade, Zhao Daiyu still sucks.

Padma by far. Here's a Crushing Embrace/Flooded-Nile Throw/Sandstrorm Throw/Dark Bite... Master of Ninjitsu + Padma R = more damage than you were initially doing.

Crushing Embrace = 5 damage, Master of Ninjitsu makes it 2 damage. Block? Take 1 + 3 + 2 from padma's R = 6 damage. Don't block? Take 7.

Flooded Nile Throw = 4 damage, Master makes it a 1 damage. No need to block. Take 1 + 3 + 2 = 6 damage.

Same for Sandstorm Throw and Dark Bite.

Combine off of Death with Gay Vampires and it's... well, gay.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

>_>

guitalex2008 said:

I'll do you one better.

Crushing Embrace = 5 damage, Master -2, Brooding +1 : Block? Take 2+3+2, don't block? Take 8.

It gets worse when you toss Flooded-Nile, they don't block and you follow up with Evil Mist. Take 2+2+2 on a 0 damage attack. That you can Risky Fighting Style.

Smazzurco said:

Nuh uh! Dude, Twilight Embrace into Destruction in His Wake. Come on man!

Suggested running Siegfried with Mitsurugi's support. He was already bloody good but now he gets brilliant. Got a deck currently where I've got 22 weenie attacks that just buffer up a hell of a lot and I'm going to try it out when I get off my ass and walk to the store.

Yeah, Siegfried is even more of a beast then he already was. Now he has more than just Drossel + his E for smashsauce <3

The biggest winners out of this set character wise are Ivy, Astrid, Nightmare, All Omar, Seigy, Fire Zi Mei, and Steve Fox.

Ivy goes up a rank because now she can use looking for a thrill and kill without the need for POTM. She also gets access to Defeated the rifle that helps her kill more assets. It becomes more important now then before to block cross madness or you will be screwed.

Astrid got better because now she has more speed pumps she can add on to her attacks. She is aproaching Hilde level damage in my opinon. She also gets access to more speed reduction for defense. In all honesty Astrid is getting to the point where the is little reason not to play her. There isn't a down side I can see.

Nightmare goes up a notch for the pure fact that there are lot of good attacks that allow him to do 4 or more damage. Not only that Mitsirugi support speeds up his attacks when he All life is prey damage pumps.

All Omar is a monster. He has access to a lot of tools to take on just about any character except for Hata, Astrid, and Hilde. Thing that stands out the most is all of Mitsirugi's stuff, comtemplating, and Jyurakudai. He has the ability to overcome the offense and damage issues that hurt him in the past. I think that he is on the verge of being a top contender. He just needs some more work.

Seigfried has had enough said about him already. But I do think he is noteworthy.

Fire Zi Mei is going to be a problem. She can multiple out her 3 damage or less attacks, speed pump them, change zones, and now consistently damage pump them. If anyone ignores her they are just plain foolish. The damage potential is there and it just got better. The defensive options are good as well.

Steve Fox got new offensive options that may make people think about playing him over a Hilde or Astrid because he can knock down the damage and force through attacks in the early game. Mitsirugi's support is helping a lot of characters, including Steve Fox, to become top teir.

Played my updated All/Fire Steve Fox deck at my local tourny and went undefeated.

Took out VaporGecko's PotM King, and Smazzurco's Fire Hata decks on the way to tournament victory. Any win over players of their calibur equals a great day!

And, it DOES showcase how the new sets have helped characters such as Steve Fox, whom i think wouldn't have been able to pull out victories over these two decks without Mitsu's support.

Nom nom, congrats Rock Star! It's nice hearing your mained Steve versus Paul too, which goes to show how differently the two play these days, despite them sharing almost the exact same support/line-up.