I like the pretty models, so I have a hard time saying its waste even if you don't use a ship.

Wave 1 (sell ships, ships have upgrades, their upgrades are interchangable so a new ship also adds more options to your old ships) but eight waves later it's a problem. I doubt the model was designed with tournament metagames in mind.

I would say the tournament metagame design was build around the business model. It not like they are the first ones with that idea either. And to be fair there are plenty of powerful combos and powerful list for a cheap dollar.

I don't think this will ever get really excessive as FFG seems to keeping an eye on it and put their design space in areas which allow to build relatively cheap and competitive lists. And with cheap I mean below $200. Which is perfectly reasonable for adults and even accessible for teenagers. Suits their target audience perfectly.

I would say there was no tournament metagame design when they came up with the game, hence the stand-in 100pt deathmatch and all the patches they've had to make to the ruleset to make it work. Contrast with Armada where competitive play was a design consideration from the start.

Wave 1 (sell ships, ships have upgrades, their upgrades are interchangable so a new ship also adds more options to your old ships) but eight waves later it's a problem. I doubt the model was designed with tournament metagames in mind.

I would say the tournament metagame design was build around the business model. It not like they are the first ones with that idea either. And to be fair there are plenty of powerful combos and powerful list for a cheap dollar.

I don't think this will ever get really excessive as FFG seems to keeping an eye on it and put their design space in areas which allow to build relatively cheap and competitive lists. And with cheap I mean below $200. Which is perfectly reasonable for adults and even accessible for teenagers. Suits their target audience perfectly.

I would say there was no tournament metagame design when they came up with the game, hence the stand-in 100pt deathmatch and all the patches they've had to make to the ruleset to make it work. Contrast with Armada where competitive play was a design consideration from the start.

I would have to agree.

I have a nice laser printer, it cost $250. I print out extra cards on it for pennies and unless you get really close you can't tell they are proxies. Problem solved.

So nice to see this thread again, I haven't seen it all week - I've missed it.

Since no one else has commented on it yet. You don't have to buy at MSRP+++ pricing either.

Take a look at miniature market and cool stuff inc (hint your at less than 1/2 the $ you listed for some ships). You'll find the game a tad bit more palatable that way.

Your going to get what you want out of the game. I have been trying to collect one of everything. Yes, this limits my squad building but I see that as a challenge, not a disadvantage. If you want to netlist and pay-to-play list by list with cost being the only inhibitor, go for it.

I'm more excited about future releases. Finally a ship (Fang Fighter) that comes with cards either for it's own faction or just that ship. Rebellion and Imperial player will not be compelled to buy this just for the cards.

AWESOME!!!

Thank you Fantasy Flight

[Edit] I'll probably get a couple but this time, at least, it won't be only for the cards.

I am slowly working away at those tournament players in my area that have bought the epic ships for the special cards and haven't tried Epic yet. I've gotten a number of them to try it out. I tend to find that once the tournament season is over you find that many of these guys actually WANT to play with these expensive ships they have spent a lot of money on.

If you are a hard core tournament player that wants to play at only the top tables at big events and doesn't care about any other form of game play, well, you are the one putting yourself in that very limited game play. They have you by the joystick. I have some sympathy for you guys, but I still think it's a lot cheaper than other game systems. You can probably sell all the extra Epic stuff to someone to at least recoup some of your lose.

I wish there was a better secondary market for X-Wing upgrade cards. They are not sold on Carhaus, Miniature Market, Coolstuffinc, or Amazon. So far the only place I've found is eBay and FB.

But even with the secondary markets, it's still frustrating. I want Sensor Jammer, but I have no interest in buying the Space Cow, but I think spending $10+ for a single card (when I can get the whole pack for $22) is crazy. I'll probably eventually buy it.

Yeah, best I can find looking quickly on ebay is $8.99. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-X-Wing-Miniatures-System-Upgrade-Cards-/272312279727?var=&hash=item3f6713a2af:m:mpqVpjK9ur_0Bvq-PjQ76dA

I can find a Lambda for $16, though. Maybe try to resell the ship for some cash back? http://www.ebay.com/itm/No-Upgrade-Cards-Star-Wars-X-Wing-Miniatures-Lamda-Class-Shuttle-/122062085393?hash=item1c6b779d11:g:A7AAAOSwTZ1XmUF1

I wish there was a better secondary market for X-Wing upgrade cards.

In some ways the idea of a secondary market for X-Wing is a myth...

With CCG's you can buy a pack of cards and sell a single card from it for more than the pack cost, sometimes a great deal more. So if you buy 10 packs and sell everything, even the commons for 50 cents or something you'll make more than it cost to buy those 10 packs.

But with X-Wing, there's no randomness to the packs, and the only thing you can really sell on a secondary market are the cards. Next to no one is going to buy a model on the secondary market. Why would I buy another X-Wing for even $5 when I likely want at least some of the cards that come in it?

So they have to charge enough for the card to break even or make some money, and then they're left with all these models and a ton of other cards that no one really wants or needs because they have so many.

Then there's things like FFG having 3p0 as the store championship top 32 card, so there's a ton of them floating around, and now they're going for $5-10 on ebay. So it's really hard to make up the cost of a CR-90.

The idea of a secondary market for X-Wing just really isn't feasible financially, not the same way it is for MtG.

It depends on the specific ship and what you want to sell with it. Say, the Lambda Shuttle and all you really want is Sensor Jammer, you might be able to get $10 for that. That would bring the cost of getting Sensor Jammer for only $6.

If you bought the Epic ships just for the special stuff and sold the epic stuff on it's own, you could do well enough. I'm thinking of looking for just the GR-75 model with all epic stuff. I have all the pilots and astromechs, but now I want the GR-75. I'd pay $20 for all that, as the online price seems to be $40 for the GR-75.

Yeah, best I can find looking quickly on ebay is $8.99. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Star-Wars-X-Wing-Miniatures-System-Upgrade-Cards-/272312279727?var=&hash=item3f6713a2af:m:mpqVpjK9ur_0Bvq-PjQ76dA

I can find a Lambda for $16, though. Maybe try to resell the ship for some cash back? http://www.ebay.com/itm/No-Upgrade-Cards-Star-Wars-X-Wing-Miniatures-Lamda-Class-Shuttle-/122062085393?hash=item1c6b779d11:g:A7AAAOSwTZ1XmUF1

Yeah, I'll probably just buy the whole pack. As far as Palpatine goes, I'm going to just print that dude up.

It depends on the specific ship and what you want to sell with it.

Sure you could have someone buying a few ships here and there to sell in pieces, and some people may want to buy the epic ships cheap, by getting only the ship and it's stuff without the addons like X1 or 3PO...

But there aren't enough of those to really support a market in the same way you see one with MtG. So you can keep an eye on eBay and you may find what you want. But you'll never have a situation like you do with MtG where there's places devoted to selling single cards.

As far as Palpatine goes, I'm going to just print that dude up.

Then you have people like me who bought the Raider for the epic flavor and who will probably never play with Palpatine. Still won't sell him, though.

It depends on the specific ship and what you want to sell with it.

Sure you could have someone buying a few ships here and there to sell in pieces, and some people may want to buy the epic ships cheap, by getting only the ship and it's stuff without the addons like X1 or 3PO...

But there aren't enough of those to really support a market in the same way you see one with MtG. So you can keep an eye on eBay and you may find what you want. But you'll never have a situation like you do with MtG where there's places devoted to selling single cards.

Well, you see online sellers doing it. They've been around for a while with lots of sales. You can't really have a lot of them, but people are out there and doing it.

As far as Palpatine goes, I'm going to just print that dude up.

Then you have people like me who bought the Raider for the epic flavor and who will probably never play with Palpatine. Still won't sell him, though.

That would be silly! How would you recreate the Battle of Endor without Palp?

Then you have people like me who bought the Raider for the epic flavor and who will probably never play with Palpatine. Still won't sell him, though.

I'm inbetween.. I bought the raider for the sake of Epic and would of gotten it even without the X1 or Emperor, same for the CR-90. But I've also used those addon cards.

I mean maybe I'm the unpopular opinion but I've never once played the raider in epic and I paid full msrp for it and I still feel like I got my money's worth out of Palpatine and the advanced cards. Maybe I have a different perspective on value or something but I've played the crap out of those cards and it's definitely worth it. Plus the raider model is gorgeous.

Well, you see online sellers doing it.

Yes you see people doing it on eBay and such. But you won't see Miniature Market selling cards or a site like Card Kingdom for X-Wing

I've played Magic the Gathering for years, and I'm sure many others can tell you that it is a lot cheaper in the long run to stay current compared to the card game.

A standard legal deck could cost you upwards $500.

You don't even get a cool Star Wars model with it.

I too bought the huge ships because I want to play Epic. I also have plenty of ships to field for both sides in an Epic game. But I like owning at least one or two cards even if I proxy, that's on me. So I still buy somethings I mostly likely wouldn't have.

Regardless I don't think I can continue this never ending expansion purchases and sooner or later I need a stopping point.

Currently to buy 1 of everything on Min Mark is 1010.04, this includes everything out there as of today. This comes out to 84.17 a month.

Now personally I know I and the wife spend way more on eating out in a month then this, and from time to time I spend money on steam and such, I know for fact if I wanted too I would be able to cough up 85 a month for ships.

I say this to say even for Tonry play I find having one of each ship works just fine and when you look at Aces, and Dunger Roo you only need one of most ships to make these work, not to even say that if you buy one of everything you will end up with 2 to 3 of most smaller ships. Look I know this seems like a lot but if it means that much to collect so, do I did and sell older toys/games your not playing with and work some OT, if you only need a card or two out of a set keep them and sell the ship making back most of the money you just drop. Watch for good sales and deals, or cut back on eating out/starbucks/buying extra junk throughout the month.

PS if you wanted to own 12 of each small, 6 of each large, 1 of each vets/ace pack/ 12 most wanted. with 1 of each epic (exception trans 2) and 1 of each core your total is 6053.67 (with an on going yearly cost of about 1200) but if you compare that to something like Tau having max of each setup is closure to 15k your spending and needing to repurchase most of the crap in 5 years when the army is remade, I know which is more of an option if your looking to play epic with max everything.

Yes, you must buy each and every expansion pack if you want to play the corresponding upgrade card.

It is absolutely illegal to play any type of proxy or copy of a card in a normal, casual game. Which is why ffg has an undercover shadow army patrolling game stores and gamers' homes across the globe. This is why there are no images of any of the upgrade cards available anywhere online and certainly not on the FFG website. Every copier and printer has been programmed to never reproduce ffg x-wing cards, just like paper currency.

If you try to proxy, the ffg police will ram down your door, confiscate your all your x-wing material and probably your opponents. You may also be detained at their maximum security facility in Minnesota where you may be water boarded or forced to watch Xanadu nonstop.

Proxying will not be tolerated. You will be found. You cannot hide. And you will be persecuted to the fullest extent.

Ummmmm you joke, but at a game night a guy asked me if I was cool with him using proxies and just as I was about to tell him that was fine everybody in the store stopped what they were doing and drug him out back and beat him. Afterwards a random person sat across from me in his place, built a list solely with what the aforementioned player owned (which wasn't much) and proceeded to destroy my palp Aces list without ever saying a word. After we finished he silently got up and added the guys entire collection to mine and left. I think it was my reward for owning everything I needed to play my list. After this I made sure to be on the safe side and own every ship made, several of most, and recommend everybody else does the same lest you end up with your collection serving as another's bounty.

I haven't played with them in Epic yet, but good lord, do they make great display pieces. Along with my Ghost, because I don't have a storage solution for that...

And let's all be thankful that with FFG re-entering the randomized collectible model, that we appreciate the current model, as flawed as it may be for some.