I'm enjoying Xwing. I get the FFG is a business and has to make money. If they didn't make money there would be no Xwing for me to enjoy. Ok, with that said: My biggest complaint is that I have to buy so many expansions just to get at upgrade cards if I want to try something new. Let's take some examples:

Uboats seems to be a pretty effective list:

3x$50 Punishing One for the ships/pilots, guidance chips, and mechs

3x$15 A-wing (or TIE inquistor) to get the deadeyes

3x$20 Kwing (or TIE punisher) to get the extra munitions

So $255 to field a 3 ship list. This is on the relatively cheap end of the spectrum.

What about a crack swarm:

4x$30 base sets (or 8 tie expansions) to get the TIEs/pilots

8x$15 Hounds Tooth, Imperial Veterans, or Kihraxz fighters to get the Crack shots

So $240 to get an 8 ship squad

Now let's say I want to have some crazy fun and go crack/juke Awings:

5x$30 Rebel Aces for the ships/pilots, and chardaan refits

5x$15 TIE/FO for the jukes

5x$15 Hounds Tooth, Imperial Veterans, or Kihraxz fighters to get the Crack shots

So $300 to get a 5 ship squad.

To me a big part of Xwing's attraction is coming up with new list, then other lists to counter those lists and on and on. I just wish it didn't cost me $250+ every time I want to try a new list in the competitive scene. My thoughts were that if FFG sold upgrade only card packs for each wave with say 8x copies of all the new upgrade cards from that wave for $XX I could try new lists for the cost of the ships + $XX. As long as $XX is $50 or so I could try new squads for ~$200 (and not feed stupid for having piles of ships I don't want).

Maybe this is blasphemy. Maybe this is stupid. maybe it makes some sense? I'm curious to see what others out there think.

Matt

good news!

you don't have to buy expacs for upgrade cards

IF

you aren't playing at Store Championships or other sanctioned events (regionals, nationals, worlds)

and if your local group is even the slightest bit reasonable about letting you proxy cards

I might also just be blessed, but I've never had to buy say an epic ship expansion to try out the Tie Advance title or c3po because there was always someone willing to lend the card(s) to me (received during the tournament; handed back as soon as it was concluded) . Even won a store championship on the back of Tie/x1 + advanced targeting computer vader that I didn't have to throw any money on

there are also some second hand markets that sell the cards without the rest of the ship, if you're good about finding those. ebay's a good start? coolstuffinc I think also sells just the cards

NOTE:

COMMUNICATION IS KEY. Always ask your opponent if they're okay with proxying (they should be, but it's nice to confirm). For tournaments, confirm with the tournament organizer.

A "Reasonable Proxy" are hereby strictly defined as UPGRADE CARDS available for purchase at the time of playing. Reasonable proxies" should be good for any local game, be it casual or competitive, barring specific restrictions set by whoever's running the show.

As always make sure your opponent knows what you're proxying. Bring a printed list and/or printed cards. "

bonus points for creative hand-drawn cards (quality of drawings are non-issues)

I didn't draw this; I'm not that talented

Less Reasonable Proxies:

to be flown ONLY in casual games

Unreleased content is iffy, even if spoiled. Make sure to clear with your opponents first. Do not expect unreleased content to fly even at local tournaments

Card board bases for proxying pilots you don't own are a little more complicated, but generally people are happy if the faction and pilot skill line-up (proxying carnor jax with your base set interceptor? Using the Inquisitor's PS 8 base isn't too bad)

proxying entire ships is a LOT more of a hassle, though, and many people don't like it if you don't have the proper model.

It is a great idea. And it will not happen.

FFG has a business model for X-Wing that is working very well for them currently. You are asking them to take a big risk and change that model. Why would they? Would you, if you were them? Why or why not?

While it can seem quite expensive to buy all the expansions, there are a couple of things that factor into that. As ficklegreendice said, casual playing with proxies is generally fine as long as you talk with your opponent and there are multiple ways to purchase cards only online. Stonestokes is also right the there is no point for FFG to do this, as it would cut into their profits/current game model.

Also, if you come from a game background like me that includes Warhammer Fantasy/40k, you are used to dropping up to $500 on a competition army easy, and then spending at least a 150 bucks to get the codex/rules to keep it updated every new addition. X-wing, and Armada, are quite reasonable in comparison.

While it can seem quite expensive to buy all the expansions, there are a couple of things that factor into that. As ficklegreendice said, casual playing with proxies is generally fine as long as you talk with your opponent and there are multiple ways to purchase cards only online. Stonestokes is also right the there is no point for FFG to do this, as it would cut into their profits/current game model.

Also, if you come from a game background like me that includes Warhammer Fantasy/40k, you are used to dropping up to $500 on a competition army easy, and then spending at least a 150 bucks to get the codex/rules to keep it updated every new addition. X-wing, and Armada, are quite reasonable in comparison.

Not to mention that the Warhammer Universe army books change every few years....

I agree it can get expensive to buy all the ships BUT compared to other games, it is very cheap. In addition, the developers need to pay a licensing fee, make money so their kids aren't begging in a street, and a markup so your local games stores stay in business. I think they are doing a pretty good job at all of those.

FFG is not greedy, they gave away C3PO cards seriously eating into potential profits.

As for an individual you do have a legitimate concern and several options have been given. As a gaming ecosystem, it can't get too much better. Now if they would just stop showing Scum so much love

This is going to be an interesting ride, but at worse I have some cool models and plan on playing with my boys for years to come.

I do dearly wish they would include cards that aren't faction specific across more expansions, have more than one way to get a card, and release more multiples.

There's no reason they couldn't have slipped an extra crack shot into the imperial vets box, a copy of wired in the fang expansion, or an autothruster in the heroes of the resistance box for example.

It's gotten to a point where someone new to the game is going to be put off by it, and that is something to consider. I've not been playing too long, but even before the last wave I can tell you it gave me pause for sure. Now that I'm more or less caught up, the idea of buying just whatever new comes out makes sense, but that's a hard sell getting harder with every wave.

They don't need to do a drastic change IMO, but it would be really nice if they were more intentional about giving me more options for acquiring the cards I want.

To add to what has already been shared, another way to look at it is to treat your squad limitations as a fun challenge. Whenever I go to a tournament, I look at the ships I do have, and even though I don't have every expansion, I enjoy working with what I have and pushing it as far as it can go. There is a bit of a thrill I feel from the notion of "this is my collection, and I made this with what I own."

Now, it is inevitable that you will need to make some purchases, yes, but don't feel like you need to buy $300 worth of ships every time something new drops. You will find part of the enjoyment is the anticipation of flying something new as you save up for it. During that time, feel free to borrow from a buddy who has already invested in a larger collection. Make steady purchases, jump on sales, and overall, be patient.

All that said, why Autothrusters are still only in the Starviper expansion is... annoying to say the least.

Well I guess it has been a few weeks since we had a "I wish FFG didn't make me buy miniatures for a miniature game thread"

It's gotten to a point where someone new to the game is going to be put off by it, and that is something to consider.

also to the point where someone new to the game may be tempted to buy a ship outside faction for the cards, and then want to play said ship and then start buying MORE of those faction's ships thereby wanting MORE upgrade cards...

that's how they get you, man

been that way since at least wave 2

"holy ****, Soontir Fel!!!!!....WHAT DO YOU MEAN PTL IS ONLY IN THE A-WING PACK!?!?!?"

There's also eBay / Craigslist etc to buy just cards, no ships.

eh if youre not being competitive you dont have to buy everything. Generally people are find with proxies long as you are clear about what is what.

Competitive players have it worse. Lot of the meta builds involve 3-5 expansions per ship lol.

In all honesty its not that bad though. I already want 1 of everything anyway and theres very few cards i feel obligated to rebuy a pack for. Only ones i have are 15buck ones (tie/fo for juke, TAP for Gchips, another ywing because 1ywing sucks)

Doesn't Rebel Aces contain 2 or 3 copies of Chardaan Refit?

So you don't need to buy 5 sets to get 5 of those...

Just sayin'.

Doesn't Rebel Aces contain 2 or 3 copies of Chardaan Refit?

So you don't need to buy 5 sets to get 5 of those...

Just sayin'.

Yup. 3 copies. It worked out great for me because I had 4 A-Wings already and two boxes of Aces got me enough for the now 6 A-Wing Squadron.

I like driving my car. I can't stand the Porsche company, their cars are too expensive.

Because of Porsche being a business and needing to make money, I can only afford to drive a crappy Ford.

Why can't Porsche sell their cars cheaper so we can all have fair access to them?

/end rant about the lamentations of paying to play.

If you're chasing something specific, flick me a pm

What is your secret to equip 8 crackshots to eight 11-point ships?

Play in tournaments. Many of them are coming up with alternative upgrade cards as of recently.

Well I guess it has been a few weeks since we had a "I wish FFG didn't make me buy miniatures for a miniature game thread"

Nobody is complaining about buying miniatures for the miniatures game. It's about buying miniatures you don't need just to get some small piece of cardstock. It's not complicated, and there's no sense being snotty about people's dissatisfaction with that facet of the business model.

It's akin to Games Workshop packaging the best rules for your Space Marines in a box of Tau Fire Warriors.

And it's not complicated that everyone has to make that decision for themselves. The game is still amazingly fun if you make sub tier 1 builds.

What is your secret to equip 8 crackshots to a 8 11 point ship?

I guess I have no problem with the small ships. What really bugs me is the huge epic ships that come with much needed/wanted upgrades for the standard game. Epic ships should only come with epic cards and upgrades.

I think a relatively simple and inexpensive fix to the situation would be if FFG would include AT LEAST 2 copies of every "new" non-unique upgrade that comes out in future expansions. Especially if it looks like it would be a popular upgrade. Only exception would be if more than one ship in a wave has the new upgrade (ex: guidance chips).

Three of their bigger fails in this area were:

1) T-70 only having 1 copy of integrated astromech

2) Tie Defender only having 1 copy of predator (and the not releasing more predator until several waves later)

3) Tie Phantom only have 1 copy of tactician (and not a single release since has had it!!)

when you start you won't stop.

While I agree that it's unpleasant to have to buy ships you don't want to get specific upgrade cards, you're making it worse than it needs to be. All three of your example lists are spammy. That is, you're fielding as many as you can of the same ship with identical upgrades on them so you need more copies of those cards.

You can build all sorts of perfectly good lists using multiple different ships which each have their own different upgrades at a significantly lower cost.

Really, what you want to do is pick a faction and start collecting around that faction. Over time you'll learn what you like and be able to plan your purchases better without wasting lots of cash on something you just want to try once. Proxy cards in a polite and reasonable manner in casual play, and don't hop to wildly different lists all the time, you won't build up experience effectively that way. Try multiple different ships instead of just duplicating the same one MAX times.

When you do need a card that's only available out of faction and you've proxied it enough to know you really DO want it, then consider buying a ship for it, or look to see if there are singles available. I've bought a few on eBay and if you're patient you can look for good deals.