I like the RNG component. I prefer the skill and strategy to be focused on flying in a scenario. I think of it from the admittedly flawed perspective of simulation, at which point it seems highly improbable that every time you go into battle, it's going to be with the best combination of choice equipment available. The RNG element of some upgrades indicates that they aren't perfect equipment, such as certain droids who I'll choose not to name.

There's a lot to be said for the skill involved with making effective use of a squadron which has not been finely tuned for peak efficiency. In the end, though, that's my bias. I prefer the skill involved in playing the game, where others find similar enjoyment in list building. The RNG element allows for some spectacular moments for those of us who play mostly for theme, the "one in a million" shots. Win or lose, I love those moments when the dice have settled and all that can be said and do justice to the outcome is "holy ****!!!"

Random is the enemy of skill.

Random is the enemy of skill.

Or, random is the TEST of skill; it depends on what skill you're talking about. Random elements are clear enemies of list building skill. They're typically not as efficient and certainly less reliable than other options. If we're talking about maneuvering and combat skill, however, randomness tests our skill by measuring how well we can adapt to the unexpected, be it in efforts at recovery or exploiting a surprise advantage.

If the random ones were a little more in your favor maybe. R2F2? Not worth the trouble.

Random is the enemy of skill.

Or, random is the TEST of skill; it depends on what skill you're talking about. Random elements are clear enemies of list building skill. They're typically not as efficient and certainly less reliable than other options. If we're talking about maneuvering and combat skill, however, randomness tests our skill by measuring how well we can adapt to the unexpected, be it in efforts at recovery or exploiting a surprise advantage.

it's really hard to adapt to bull in x-wing when range 3 is so long and a single spill of bad dice can lose you an entire ship (Esp with unlucky crit draws) which is often an entire third of your list

this isn't like warmachine where there are enough moving pieces on the table ( and game-winning objectives that don't including just wiping out your opponent's army) to allow you to adapt with a fluid strategy. The best you can do is put yourself in a position where you have the better odds of dicing through the opponent's ships before he dices through yours, and if the dice do not play ball when you should be at an advantageous position you might just be screwed out of a win

which is why I always bring guaranteed damage. Outplay the opponent, get rewarded for it.

A CR90 one-shot my interceptor, and then tore up my defender with its turbolaser. I guess I wasn't skilled enough to factor the 12 blank die results into my calculations when I made the mistake of flying on the same map as my opponent.

the potential fear of losing a ship in 1 swoop is why the tactics game im making up (think final fantasy tactics theres your idea of what it is) is designed to have high hp but its highly unlikely you do no damage. In general characters will trickle down on hp but depending on the situation (battle axe vs wizard) you could lose 2/3 your hp quick, but still not die in 1 hit.

Ive seen that in way too many tabletop games, and even though xwing is the least punishing to bad dice its still a thing. Really hope the mechanics im drawing up actually work like i think they will lol

Winning because the other guy had poor dice is never as satisfying as winning because you out flew them.

Losing because of cold dice and only cold dice stings even more.

A CR90 one-shot my interceptor, and then tore up my defender with its turbolaser. I guess I wasn't skilled enough to factor the 12 blank die results into my calculations when I made the mistake of flying on the same map as my opponent.

Unless an interceptor and a defender were all you had, the game was far from over at that stage, and you should expect some fighter loss as you approach even a small capital ship. If that was all you had, then you really did make a mistake getting into that fight. Two fighters shouldn't have a chance against a corvette.

Winning because the other guy had poor dice is never as satisfying as winning because you out flew them.

Losing because of cold dice and only cold dice stings even more.

this

i lost a game yesterday purely because i literally never rolled an evade or eyeball. I outflew the crap out of my opponent, the guy got like 6 shots or so the entire game...which were strong enough shots to kill all 3 of my ships (double xwing + hwk) because i didnt dodge a single thing when he managed to get arc on me. Whats worse is he kept hitting rocks too so i even got a few free passes because he SHOULD have had a shot and didnt because of his own derpage.

That is always irritating to lose that way. But it happens because dice

flipside if thats happening to my opponent i start feeling sorry. I faced a hyperdash that wiffed 3 attacks in a row...how does HYPERDASH MISS THREE TIMES IN A ROW lol and im not talking i evaded it either.

Yeah dice spikes can really take the wind out of your sails

I had x7 juke vess and ptl x7 tiemk2 ryad and lrs homing missile gamma run up against super dengar

Went too fast; too furious with vess and ended up in range and arc of dengar; range 2 of gunner bossk 4lom slaver

Even after dengar's actual attack rolled perfect hits (letting him keep FULL MODS for his "payback" shot) I only lost 3 shields

After three turns of jockeying, the game was over in three turns of x7 defenders shredding the two large ships. Vess only took from the first exchange of fire and ryad took one damage to avoid a gunner trigger.

I realize "the mod squad" has all the mods all the time (double defenders with focus evade TL every round, baby!) but holy crap did the dice just not give the poor guy a chance

misread the quite, carry on.

While I totally understand that the statistical swings that come with RNG need to be minimized in a high level competitive environment, this is a dice game. I love rolling the bones and see what happens. It is these wild outcomes that often make some of the most enjoyable and memorable gaming sessons for me. Feel free to send me all your Lando, R3, R5-D8, R5-K6, illict cloak, etc. I promise to give them a good home.

Oh no doubt.

Some of our most memorable game moments that endure the years are from the vagaries of the dice.

And programming pseudo-random number generators was one of my favorite programming tasks once upon a time.

Random is what makes board games, war games, role playing games etc. come to life. Or rather, take on a life of their own.

I feel like there's a distinction that needs to be made clear here.

not every game of x-wing is the same; they don't all exist with the same level of competitiveness with the same things at stake.

I love many of the rng based mechanics in the game, but when the chips are down there's very few of them that I trust to pull their weight when I need them to.

It is possible to simultaneously enjoy the rng based abilities but choose not to use them in competitive play, and this is where I feel I'm at:

If it's just a casual list to have a bit of fun with my friends then sure, I'll throw in rng stuff whenever it feels right. But if I'm building for an event or tournament and I want to do well, then I'm going to screen anything rng based to make sure it's worth it in the list - most of the time this means that rng based cards don't make the cut.

idk, even in casual games I don't find the idea of an upgrade that only works when fickle chance feels like it to be the least bit fun

seems to be an unnecessary barrier between the actions of the two players and the interactions thereof

but, believe it or not, I actually don't mind excessive RNG in some games (shock! )

but these games are mainly narrative experiences, stuff like DND

Betrayal at the House on the Hill is an even better example, because there's just about zero strategy as everything's dependent on random draws and rolls, but that just makes for wildly varied sessions

although it also makes for some horrible anti-climaxes if your character finds the right items littered around the house and turns into an unstoppable slayer of eldritch horror

in our most recent run, one of our players was basically possessed by the necronomicon and was going to summon an abominable cosmic god to devour reality as we knew it and we had to stop him!

problem was the player's character was a thirteen year old boy who got basically jack crap for having the blessing of this horrible creature (Rolled really poorly on random stat buffs) AND who decided to go crazy right next to the furnace we had to chuck the Necronomicon into to win

so our epic tale of suspense and horror concluded with three adults beating up some poor kid and chucking his book into the fire

idk, even in casual games I don't find the idea of an upgrade that only works when fickle chance feels like it to be the least bit fun

Interesting that you word it like that, because the rng based abilities that I tend to trust more than others are the ones where the payoff is guaranteed & the rng is to see if something bad happens.

Example: Porkins (never mind that he doesn't have a place in competitive play right now) - you're guaranteed to ditch the stress, and you can plan for the eventuality that you might take a damage.

Or illicit cloaking device - you're guaranteed the extra green dice & the reposition, and you can plan around the possibility that you won't be able to do it again.

As opposed to something like Lando, where you really can't plan around the possibility of sinking an action and getting nothing out of it.

idk, even in casual games I don't find the idea of an upgrade that only works when fickle chance feels like it to be the least bit fun

Interesting that you word it like that, because the rng based abilities that I tend to trust more than others are the ones where the payoff is guaranteed & the rng is to see if something bad happens.

Example: Porkins (never mind that he doesn't have a place in competitive play right now) - you're guaranteed to ditch the stress, and you can plan for the eventuality that you might take a damage.

Or illicit cloaking device - you're guaranteed the extra green dice & the reposition, and you can plan around the possibility that you won't be able to do it again.

As opposed to something like Lando, where you really can't plan around the possibility of sinking an action and getting nothing out of it.

well, each to his own

my idea of reward worth the risk basically starts and stops with 4-lom and Zuckuss crews

which is weird, because in Betrayal I'm all about the Dark Dice

idk, even in casual games I don't find the idea of an upgrade that only works when fickle chance feels like it to be the least bit fun

seems to be an unnecessary barrier between the actions of the two players and the interactions thereof

but, believe it or not, I actually don't mind excessive RNG in some games (shock! )

but these games are mainly narrative experiences, stuff like DND

Betrayal at the House on the Hill is an even better example, because there's just about zero strategy as everything's dependent on random draws and rolls, but that just makes for wildly varied sessions

although it also makes for some horrible anti-climaxes if your character finds the right items littered around the house and turns into an unstoppable slayer of eldritch horror

in our most recent run, one of our players was basically possessed by the necronomicon and was going to summon an abominable cosmic god to devour reality as we knew it and we had to stop him!

problem was the player's character was a thirteen year old boy who got basically jack crap for having the blessing of this horrible creature (Rolled really poorly on random stat buffs) AND who decided to go crazy right next to the furnace we had to chuck the Necronomicon into to win

so our epic tale of suspense and horror concluded with three adults beating up some poor kid and chucking his book into the fire

I'm not seeing how that's not awesome.

A CR90 one-shot my interceptor, and then tore up my defender with its turbolaser. I guess I wasn't skilled enough to factor the 12 blank die results into my calculations when I made the mistake of flying on the same map as my opponent.

Unless an interceptor and a defender were all you had, the game was far from over at that stage, and you should expect some fighter loss as you approach even a small capital ship. If that was all you had, then you really did make a mistake getting into that fight. Two fighters shouldn't have a chance against a corvette.

I love Lando. His ability is super thematic and a decent gamble.

I haven't gotten a chance to play with the illicit cloaking device yet, but that too is super thematic (and a good gamble, since it may be worth the two points even if just used once at the right time), and I really look forward to using it at some point.

I have a problem with the RNG astromechs though. If the ability isn't thematic or requires multiple uses to be worth it, I want it to work even in a casual game. I don't get to play as often as I'd like, so if I have some synergy I'd like to try out or combo I'd like to pull off, I really want it to be within my power to do so. That's just me though.

I echo this sentiment. If upgrades are going to be a premium, they should work when you need them to especially Astromechs.

RNG should be the only thing that goes on in the attack phase though, with only TL and Focus to modify. None of these guaranteed results or guaranteed unavoidable damage that seem to pop up all the time.

i love it when i face lando and he wiffs. Not because then theres no tokens but because then i can be a smartass and go "someone changed the deal" lol

Yesterday I played a game with a B, X, and two TLT HWKs against a TIE swarm of 6. The first shot of the game was my X-Wing sniping a TIE at Range 3. 3 hits versus 4 blanks. Bye, TIE. He still won in the end.

While I totally understand that the statistical swings that come with RNG need to be minimized in a high level competitive environment, this is a dice game. I love rolling the bones and see what happens. It is these wild outcomes that often make some of the most enjoyable and memorable gaming sessons for me. Feel free to send me all your Lando, R3, R5-D8, R5-K6, illict cloak, etc. I promise to give them a good home.

I consider myself a competitive player, and I have no problem with RNG, when it is correctly costed . R3, Sabateur, and R5-K6 are perfect examples of RNG cards that are poorly costed. Lando, R5-D8, and Illicit cloak are all fine.

It seems that many American games have a RNG and for some reason we love them. I have several euro games and they seem to remove the luck aspect and focus more on non-confrontation like Agricola and many others. I personally love the randomness in this game. Just the other night I played a game and I had a 5 hp Poe and Z-95 vs an almost dead Corran+R2D2. My opponent went for broke and did a joust against me since he thought he was done anyway. He had initiative and he rolled 4 dice landing 2 hit and 2 crits. Both crits were direct hits and Poe died. I will probably never forget that game because it was so unlikely to happen. That's what makes this game fun.

Many European games replace dice randomness with a deck or cards. If you play though the deck without reshuffling then you do get the same distribution. but, at least at the beginning, it is random. Many American games use dice and therefore every roll/draw is uniquely random, so perhaps more random.

In this case both are random though American style games can be more random. But, it seems to me, that FFG has introduced upgrade card to mitigate randomness, Auto-Thrusters, Crack Shot, Accuracy Corrector, various Rebel regen.

Both have randomness and both deal with it differently. European though a fixed deck that forces nearly the same distribution or, in this case, card that remove or lessen the impact of the randomness. Another difference in this example is that in a European game everyone starts with the same chance and balance. In this American game the starting squad build plus your knowledge of the upgrades, combinations and synergies can be over-whelming and an ever growing complexity or it can be the holy grail which gives you the edge to dominate the board and win a lop-sided victory.