My elite Rebel Saboteur is attacking my opponent's stormtrooper with an untapped Zillo Technique. I roll 2 hits and 2 surges, and opponent rolls 2 blocks.

If I spend 1 surge on pierce 2 and 1 surge on stun/blast, my opponent can tap Zillo Technique to make my attack do nothing correct?

And if I choose to spend both surges on pierce 2, my opponent can choose not to use Zillo Technique and let one of my surges go to waste, correct?

Either way, there is no way I can force through stun or blast with my surge choices in this case, correct?

Correct.

SInce we're talking about zillo, the order is:

Rolls

Rerolls

Zillo discard to add 1 block

Spend surges

Zillo exhaust to negate pierce 2.

In your scenario, you can either force him to use zillo to block 2 damage or you can let him keep it open and you do 2 damage.

another question with this.

can i use zillo to discard a card to add a block to a defence when it has already been exhausted to reduce pierce in a previous attack?

Yes, the exhaust is a cost to the upper ability only.

The bottom ability can be used once per attack whether the card is exhausted or not. (Being depleted would be another thing.)

Hey, wait a moment, isn't Zillo's exhaust ability only usable during the 'Modify Dice' step, which comes before the 'Spend Surges' step? And if not, could you please point me to the rule(s) that clarify this?

The Apply Modifiers step adds or removes icons or accuracy.

Since pierce is not a modfiier (it only lets you ignore block results in the calculate damage step), and there are no rules about when pierce is applied/removed, you can remove pierce as late as the calculate damage step.

Another way to think about it, is that it doesn't make sense to reduce the pierce of the attack results before any pierce has been added. So it has to come after the Spend Surges step.

Btw, Pierce has been confirmed to happen during the calculate damage step.

Hmm, fair enough. Good to know, thanks!

Btw, Pierce has been confirmed to happen during the calculate damage step.

To bad I didn't read this just prior to the Nationals (Australia).

The TO declared that Zillo Technique was to be used at step 4. And this totally buggered me!

Where can I find FFG confirming this?

Cheers,

The ruling is in conjunction of Heavy Armor.
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1545259/command-card-heavy-armor/page/2 (although the original response was removed, read the thread for the justification)
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/22339349#22339349 (one of the questions that needed to be answered because Pierce happens in step 7)

In short: According to the RRG (and FFG), Pierce does not remove or add symbols, Pierce is only taken into account when calculating damage (Pierce allows to ignore the corresponding amount of blocks).

The TO declared that Zillo Technique was to be used at step 4. And this totally buggered me!

The bottom part has be performed in step 4, because it adds or removes symbols or accuracy. The top part can be used just before step 7, because it only affects Pierce and Pierce is not a symbol or accuracy.

(I can still see that someone could interpret the reduction of Pierce on the top part to be adding or removing symbols even if Pierce really isn't either. Pierce is still applied during step 7.)

Yeah, before I realized Pierce and Zillo weren't modifying dice results, I thought it had to be in step 4 too.

Thank you A1bert,

That makes sense that Zillo can be exhasted at step 7 (top half to reduce pierce) and step 4 for discarding a command card to apply +1 block.

I have sent a request to FFG for an official answer so I can let the TO know for the next event.

Your explaination is very logical and I am sure correct,

Regards,

Yeah this was really annoying. I frequent this forum so I know the proper use of Zillo. It's super frustrating to see people use it wrong (and officially rule it as such).

I wasn't in the mood for an argument about it on Saturday.

It's also bloody annoying that stuff like this keeps getting missed in FAQ updates.
We send through questions all the time (like this one) and get responses... except they end up hidden on various forums and for some reason don't make it into the proper documents.

And then if they do, people will be all like "oh, now it's official so we'll do it like that from now on".... that doesn't mean you were right before.

And most of the time the rules are in the RRG if people read and understood what the RRG says.

For reference:

· Any ability that is resolved "while attacking" or "while defending" can be used at any point during the attack with the following exceptions:
-- An ability that adds dice to a dice pool can only be used immediately before step 2 of the attack.
-- An ability that allows a player to reroll dice can only be used during step 3 of the attack.
-- An ability that allows a player to modify die results can only be used during step 4 of the attack.

This keyword allows a figure to ignore a number of block results while attacking. For example, "Pierce 2" allows an attack to ignore up to 2 block results.

You can't copy every misunderstood rule from the RRG to the FAQ, because then it would become larger than the RRG.

And most of the time the rules are in the RRG if people read and understood what the RRG says.

For reference:

· Any ability that is resolved "while attacking" or "while defending" can be used at any point during the attack with the following exceptions:

-- An ability that adds dice to a dice pool can only be used immediately before step 2 of the attack.

-- An ability that allows a player to reroll dice can only be used during step 3 of the attack.

-- An ability that allows a player to modify die results can only be used during step 4 of the attack.

This keyword allows a figure to ignore a number of block results while attacking. For example, "Pierce 2" allows an attack to ignore up to 2 block results.

You can't copy every misunderstood rule from the RRG to the FAQ, because then it would become larger than the RRG.

Thank you a1bert, much appreciated.

Yeah this was really annoying. I frequent this forum so I know the proper use of Zillo. It's super frustrating to see people use it wrong (and officially rule it as such).

I wasn't in the mood for an argument about it on Saturday.

It's also bloody annoying that stuff like this keeps getting missed in FAQ updates.

We send through questions all the time (like this one) and get responses... except they end up hidden on various forums and for some reason don't make it into the proper documents.

And then if they do, people will be all like "oh, now it's official so we'll do it like that from now on".... that doesn't mean you were right before.

Thank you Inquisitorsz,

I've sent a rule request to FFG IA support so this particular rule error doesn't happen to me again, as the card is great if allowed to be played correctly!

Next event on the 15th of Oct in Parramatta, so I might see you there.

We were all a laid back bunch just looking to have some fun, so I also wasn't in the mood to argue either (I wasn't happy about it but sucked it up, and didn't want to look like "that guy").

Cheers all

Next event on the 15th of Oct in Parramatta, so I might see you there.

We were all a laid back bunch just looking to have some fun, so I also wasn't in the mood to argue either (I wasn't happy about it but sucked it up, and didn't want to look like "that guy").

Yeah same, didn't want to make a scene. TO's can get really worked up when someone points out they are wrong.

You won't see me in Parramatta though, I'm from Melbourne. Enjoy your event. I think we have one on the 15th too.