RAW, droids are subject to the same restrictions as non-droids when it comes to raising characteristics: the only way they can be raised following creation is via talents, or cybernetics.

However, the droid PC in my party is wondering why he is not able to enhance his droid's characteristics in conventional ways (using XP), but not using cybernetics. His example for "soft" characteristics like Willpower or Presence is that these could occur via software upgrades. And for "hard" characteristics like Brawn or Agility, via the installation of superior hardware. He is upset that he's had to spend more XP than all the other PCs in the party to raise his characteristics, and is wondering why this capacity to build "from the ground up" does not extend pass the creation phase.

I do not agree, and wanted to run my counter-arguments by everyone to see if they pass muster.

1) The proposal could essentially mean there is no upper limit to any characteristic, barring XP. (The Meta Reason)

Obviously this is not how characteristics are intended to work, and the artificial nature of the droid notwithstanding, this is also not how any species treats innate qualities.

2) Droids still operate within design parameters, just like meatbags. (The Fluff Reason)

There's a reason a Toyota Tercel doesn't have the strength of an M1 Abrams Battle Tank: it can't physically hold a Honeywell AGT1500 turbine engine. Assuming all droids are built for specific functions, their chassis cannot conceivably fit an unlimited number of upgrades, characteristic or otherwise.

Taken together: the character creation stage for a Droid represents the "design" phase of that droid's type. Other than cybernetics, this is a hard ceiling: the droid's design parameters do not allow for unlimited upgrades/improvements.

#2 is spot on. To take things even further, you could point out to your player that the Dedication talent is exactly how a droid might "upgrade his software." Or hardware. Or firmware, whatever. It's a flexible talent.

I'm not sure that #1 takes into consideration the built-in game rules that a characteristic cannot exceed a base rating of 6, and cannot be increased by cybernetics past a rating of 7. So there are hard-coded upper limits regardless of how one achieves extra ranks in any characteristic.

Tell your player to be happy with his improved durability and nigh-invulnerability to poisons, atmospheres, and weariness. Not to mention the ability to integrate most pieces of small equipment directly into his chassis. And then there's the social status as essentially being considered a piece of equipment. People will overlook a droid in many places where an organic might automatically raise alarms.

If you just compare the droid XP-wise to other species, yeah, it sucks. But it sounds like your player isn't actually paying attention to everything a droid is capable of. If he is using his status as a machine to its full effect, then there really shouldn't even be a need for any concessions in the first place.

Cybernetics IS how he upgrades! That's kinda the point of them.

Droids have stuff that compensates for the issue of stats, max cyber upgrades, no breathing needed, no poison, free Soak, more starting Skills, etc. It doesn't need tweaking at all.

As everyone has said above, droids have plenty of things going for them, so they don't really need to be able to buy Characteristics.

The only tweak I make to droids is to make their cybernetics cap 6 or 3+Br, whichever is higher, but that's only because my Brain staged a revolt at the idea that an organic (Ganks) could possibly have more cybernetics than a droid, and would not shut up about it. The things I deal with. Stupid Brain...

But that's just me dealing with my stuff - I don't actually think that droids need the boost, mechanically speaking.

Agreed everyone. Thanks.

The irony is that this PC is actually totally in love with the Droid species and plays them reasonably well. He's just...well...a bit of a munchkin when it comes to character optimization. All of this is in the metagame, so it's not a huge problem, but I do rather dread the half hour before each session when I inevitably know he's going to throw a dozen new curveballs at me in his plan to transform his Droid into Unicron or something.

Thankfully he's a good RPer...

I agree with everything stated, but I'm pretty sure there "should" be a way to transfer his core to a different body and inherit its stats. How you do that without breaking the game as it's designed right now, I don't know. You can pull a hard drive out of a computer and put it in a beefier one, you'll probably need to install a ton of updates, but it's doable. Why you couldn't do the same with a droid, in game at least, I don't know. There might be some limits maybe, if you're still running 32bit XP and you toss the drive into a modern day system you'll be wasting a lot of the potential, but upgrading the OS to a newer version would solve that, while retaining all the data. *shrug*

For a lot of people, one of the biggest joys of droids was their modularity and ease of upgrade compared to other races, this system does away with that and it's jarring to get used to.

As everyone has said above, droids have plenty of things going for them, so they don't really need to be able to buy Characteristics.

The only tweak I make to droids is to make their cybernetics cap 6 or 3+Br, whichever is higher, but that's only because my Brain staged a revolt at the idea that an organic (Ganks) could possibly have more cybernetics than a droid, and would not shut up about it. The things I deal with. Stupid Brain...

But that's just me dealing with my stuff - I don't actually think that droids need the boost, mechanically speaking.

With Cybertech you don't have to be a Gank to have a absurd cybernetic cap. A Gank Cybertech would be complete overkill. And with the rules for assembling new cybernetics in special modification there are a lot of implants that make far more sense than those provided in the books. A advantage here or there is nice but a additional yellow dice for a green dice in a skill like ranged light or melee is better in my opinion.

Oh, I'm well aware, and like I said, I don't feel that the change I implemented was strictly necessary.

But my Brain is very demanding (hence why I often refer to her as a separate person), and absolutely would not allow me to have an organic character with a higher possible (base) cybernetics limit than a droid.

The fix I implemented was the least mechanically-disruptive one I could make for my Brain to be satisfied.

My reasoning would be that there's a difference between your average droid and an "awakened" droid. An awakened droid's sentience is tied to his particular set of quirks, making it harder to mess with his "brain" without scrambling things. If I want to upgrade my PC past a certain point, I'm going to have to take out the motherboard and the processor and start with something new. In my mind, that makes it a new computer. I can put in more RAM (cybernetics) or a video card (some sort of holoprojector). I can install software (skills and talents), but if I want that same brain to work faster, I'm going to have to start overclocking (Dedication talent), and I need to be careful I don't burn anything out. It might be time to install a liquid cooling system (raise Strain threshold and take some ranks in Stealth).

But I can't just yank the processor and the motherboard, because that's what makes my computer (droid) who he is.

I agree with everything stated, but I'm pretty sure there "should" be a way to transfer his core to a different body and inherit its stats. How you do that without breaking the game as it's designed right now, I don't know. You can pull a hard drive out of a computer and put it in a beefier one, you'll probably need to install a ton of updates, but it's doable. Why you couldn't do the same with a droid, in game at least, I don't know. There might be some limits maybe, if you're still running 32bit XP and you toss the drive into a modern day system you'll be wasting a lot of the potential, but upgrading the OS to a newer version would solve that, while retaining all the data. *shrug*

For a lot of people, one of the biggest joys of droids was their modularity and ease of upgrade compared to other races, this system does away with that and it's jarring to get used to.

A droid's brain is more than just the hard drive. It is the RAM, CPU and drive all as one complicated unit that has thousands, if not millions, of connections between the brain and the body to create all of the complex control the droid has.

This system didn't do away with the modularity of the droids. They are still there, in the cybernetics addons. And in the fact that droids can have equipment added to their frame so that tools, weapons, armor, etc... is just a part of the droid.

If you want a completely modular droid, then given them an NPC droid and let them go to town with their cash on it. But the PC droids are also limited in ways so that they fit with the other meatbags without seeming OP.

Coming off what Kallabecca mentioned above, One option is to let him transfer himself into an NPC stat based droid body. It would allow a form of instant upgrade.

The trick here is to figure out the XP costs it would take to get a base droid to that level, then inflict an XP penalty that the character has to pay off as he has to get "used" to the new body, software, whatever.

The character would start out a bit more powerful and would totally have to rely on equipment alone to upgrade anything until that XP penalty is paid off.

I also wouldn't allow the character to keep any unusual talents from the new body (specifically, Adversary and such - Those abilities simply didn't survive the transfer)

It's a thought, but balancing power levels between players might be a bit of an issue.