Im 5 or sessions in - I've made mistakes in spending my exp - but what I cant seem to figure out how to increase my Force Rating. Right now Im playing a sentinel and I've purchased move and associated upgrades that I dont think I can actually activate without dark side pips...

How do I get to FR2?

like two-thirds of the F&D CRB Specialization trees have a talent called "Force Rating". You purchase it with experience points to increase your Force Rating by 1

As said, the Force Rating talent raises your FR. Soresu Defender, Makashi Duelist, Ataru Striker, Shien Expert, and Shii-Cho Knight don't have it. All the others have it, while Sage and Seer have two ranks of Force Rating. If you're playing Shien Expert, you're going to have to branch out into something else for it.

I would suggest talking to your GM about refunding your XP and trying over again.

Ugh. I already branched out into shadow (I am playing Shien Expert as you said) but it takes 100xp to get the extra Force Rating. Crap. Ok, off to talk with the GM. Might be time to write a heroic exit or reevaluate how I play him.

Either way, would require a refund on exp.

Ugh. I already branched out into shadow (I am playing Shien Expert as you said) but it takes 100xp to get the extra Force Rating. Crap. Ok, off to talk with the GM. Might be time to write a heroic exit or reevaluate how I play him.

Either way, would require a refund on exp.

What is the primary problem you are running into that you think can only be solved by having a higher force rating?

Thing to bear in mind in this system is that it was a deliberate choice on the part of the designers that if you want to play a classic Jedi, then you're going to have to invest for the long haul.

Unlike the various d20 Star Wars games, this game is meant to replicate Luke's path from naive farm boy to Jedi Knight, which took him 4 years and lots of adventures in-between, and even at the conclusion of his story (RotJ), he wasn't fully capable of doing all the sorts of stuff we see the Prequel-era Jedi (who'd been training since early childhood) accomplish.

In the early going, you need to decide which is more important, being really good with a lightsaber, or being a capable Force user. 5 of the 6 LS Form specs have Improved Parry and/or Improved Reflect, which allows the PC to inflict significant damage when it's not their turn; having Improved Parry trigger when you've got a high-damage lightsaber is going to run just about anyone's day, and I've seen it turn the tide on what might have otherwise been a very daunting "boss battle" more than once.

That said, for a PC with FR1, Move really isn't a good power to invest a lot of XP into. Personally, the PC builds that I've made (and I've made quite a few) that started with a LS Form spec don't have much more in Move than the basic power, and rarely more than the Control upgrade to hurl objects, a Range upgrade, and a Strength upgrade, and even then it's treated more as a utility power than something to be relied upon in combat. More so if you've taken Sense and the defensive Control upgrade, since committing your one Force die there gives you a much more viable benefit than using Move in a fight.

Ugh. I already branched out into shadow (I am playing Shien Expert as you said) but it takes 100xp to get the extra Force Rating. Crap. Ok, off to talk with the GM. Might be time to write a heroic exit or reevaluate how I play him.

Either way, would require a refund on exp.

What is the primary problem you are running into that you think can only be solved by having a higher force rating?

If I had to guess, it's probably that he's not able to activate more than the basic power and one category of upgrade (Magnitude, Range, or Strength) at best, and if his Force die routinely comes up with that single pip, then it means all he gets is the basic power.

Which for a player that really wants to emulate the stuff we see the Jedi characters in various media accomplish, especially the prequels and TCW, that can be frustrating.

Personally, I think Move is one of those instances where the players are given just enough rope to hang themselves, since it's very appealing as a "flashy" power, especially with the damage that can be inflicted, and has likely lead a lot of players, not just the OP, into the trap of spending lots of XP on the power, which then feels wasted because they're not able to make use of that XP due to only rolling a single Force die at the time. Saw it in EotE when it was just the Force Sensitive Exile, and it's probably gotten to be a broader occurrence now that FaD is on shelves and Force users are the primary starting character option.

I'll admit, I nearly fell into that trap too with my very first character in an prolonged EotE game, but I was able to recognize the pitfall for what it was before I'd invested too much XP into Move, and accepted that for a while said power was going to be "utility" and that the idea of a "Force wizard" from Saga Edition just wasn't going to be a thing anytime soon.

Couldn't agree more. Really, the best two powers to start off with are Enhance and Sense, because you can commit your one die for palpable bonuses (upgraded difficulty when attacked, or an extra ability die for either Brawn or Agility checks), and Enhance-ing your physical skill checks doesn't take an additional action, so rolling only black pips is less of a letdown, because the rest of your roll still happens.

And awesomely, in the lore of the galaxy, learning sensory powers and to enhance your physical abilities are skills the Jedi typically learned before the flashy telekinetic stuff. So the mechanics encourage following the proper path!

Ugh. I already branched out into shadow (I am playing Shien Expert as you said) but it takes 100xp to get the extra Force Rating. Crap. Ok, off to talk with the GM. Might be time to write a heroic exit or reevaluate how I play him.

Either way, would require a refund on exp.

What is the primary problem you are running into that you think can only be solved by having a higher force rating?

If I had to guess, it's probably that he's not able to activate more than the basic power and one category of upgrade (Magnitude, Range, or Strength) at best, and if his Force die routinely comes up with that single pip, then it means all he gets is the basic power.

Which for a player that really wants to emulate the stuff we see the Jedi characters in various media accomplish, especially the prequels and TCW, that can be frustrating.

Personally, I think Move is one of those instances where the players are given just enough rope to hang themselves, since it's very appealing as a "flashy" power, especially with the damage that can be inflicted, and has likely lead a lot of players, not just the OP, into the trap of spending lots of XP on the power, which then feels wasted because they're not able to make use of that XP due to only rolling a single Force die at the time. Saw it in EotE when it was just the Force Sensitive Exile, and it's probably gotten to be a broader occurrence now that FaD is on shelves and Force users are the primary starting character option.

I'll admit, I nearly fell into that trap too with my very first character in an prolonged EotE game, but I was able to recognize the pitfall for what it was before I'd invested too much XP into Move, and accepted that for a while said power was going to be "utility" and that the idea of a "Force wizard" from Saga Edition just wasn't going to be a thing anytime soon.

Yeah I am guessing it's the typical Force Rating One Blues that most players get, but was hoping for a specific reason from him that we could break down directly, instead of just general statements about the mechanics.

I dunno how many folks agree, but my general idea of character progression in F&D almost always starts with a non-lightsaber spec. The reasoning, of course, is that it will probably be a while before you get a lightsaber (though there's nothing wrong with an Ancient Sword or Training Saber), and taking another spec might let you hit FR 2 before lightsabers enter the game. Then, when your group starts becoming Jedi-esque, you already have a "thing." Sure, your "thing" can be "Jedi Lightsaber badass," but I find it much more interesting to be something before you started down the Jedi path. Tribal wizard, corporate spy, starfighter pilot and local rabble-rouser are all fun character backgrounds, and give you a pile of skills and abilities that will make the Jedi you later become pretty interesting.

I dunno how many folks agree, but my general idea of character progression in F&D almost always starts with a non-lightsaber spec. The reasoning, of course, is that it will probably be a while before you get a lightsaber (though there's nothing wrong with an Ancient Sword or Training Saber), and taking another spec might let you hit FR 2 before lightsabers enter the game. Then, when your group starts becoming Jedi-esque, you already have a "thing." Sure, your "thing" can be "Jedi Lightsaber badass," but I find it much more interesting to be something before you started down the Jedi path. Tribal wizard, corporate spy, starfighter pilot and local rabble-rouser are all fun character backgrounds, and give you a pile of skills and abilities that will make the Jedi you later become pretty interesting.

That's why I personally like specs like Sage or Seer, that let you get up to Force Rating 3 all by themselves. You don't even need to branch out and you can become a powerful Force user. Which, if you are like me, and find the Force more interesting than lightsabers, is definitely the way to go. I love the imagery and mysticism of lightsabers, and the place they have in the Jedi lore, but at the end of the day, I'm just not as impressed by a dude with a laser sword, when compared to the little girl who can lift a semi truck and trailer with her mind, and hurl it 100 yards. So I definitely fall on the "Space Wizard" side of things, compared to the "Space Knight With Laser Sword" camp.

I dunno how many folks agree, but my general idea of character progression in F&D almost always starts with a non-lightsaber spec. The reasoning, of course, is that it will probably be a while before you get a lightsaber (though there's nothing wrong with an Ancient Sword or Training Saber), and taking another spec might let you hit FR 2 before lightsabers enter the game. Then, when your group starts becoming Jedi-esque, you already have a "thing." Sure, your "thing" can be "Jedi Lightsaber badass," but I find it much more interesting to be something before you started down the Jedi path. Tribal wizard, corporate spy, starfighter pilot and local rabble-rouser are all fun character backgrounds, and give you a pile of skills and abilities that will make the Jedi you later become pretty interesting.

It's ultimately a matter of opinion.

Personally, I'm all about the "Space Knight" side of things, so a lot of the PCs I've played have started out with a LS Form spec, even if that meant not getting an actual lightsaber right away, and having to "make do" with a training 'saber. That way, when my PC does earn a proper lightsaber, he's already fully capable of wielding it and doing some of the cool stuff and becoming a very potent combatant. Then again, I'm the guy that would take playing a Striker-type over a Controller or Leader-type PC in D&D 4e, or would play a Fighter-type instead of a Wizard or Cleric in D&D.

Of course, how long of a wait a group has until the PCs can get access to lightsabers is going to vary from one GM to the next. Heck, the FaD Beta provided lightsaber crystals at the conclusion of what would be the PCs initial adventure, and the GM Kit adventure can very easily be set up to do the same. And if also considering Chronicles of the Gatekeeper, which suggests letting the PCs obtain lightsabers after the conclusion of Act 1, it seems part of the intent on FFG's part is that the PCs should have the option to obtain proper lightsabers by the conclusion of their second or third adventure at the latest.

That said, I'm sure there are GMs that take the notion of "Knight Level PCs can have lightsabers" near literally and thus withhold 'saber crystals until the PCs reach 150 earned XP (i.e. hit Knight Level). And it wouldn't surprise me to learn there are GMs that still withhold lightsaber crystals even after PCs have reached that point out of a perceived fear of what those weapons might do to the balance of their combat encounters.

Ugh. I already branched out into shadow (I am playing Shien Expert as you said) but it takes 100xp to get the extra Force Rating. Crap. Ok, off to talk with the GM. Might be time to write a heroic exit or reevaluate how I play him.

Either way, would require a refund on exp.

What is the primary problem you are running into that you think can only be solved by having a higher force rating?

If I had to guess, it's probably that he's not able to activate more than the basic power and one category of upgrade (Magnitude, Range, or Strength) at best, and if his Force die routinely comes up with that single pip, then it means all he gets is the basic power.

Which for a player that really wants to emulate the stuff we see the Jedi characters in various media accomplish, especially the prequels and TCW, that can be frustrating.

Personally, I think Move is one of those instances where the players are given just enough rope to hang themselves, since it's very appealing as a "flashy" power, especially with the damage that can be inflicted, and has likely lead a lot of players, not just the OP, into the trap of spending lots of XP on the power, which then feels wasted because they're not able to make use of that XP due to only rolling a single Force die at the time. Saw it in EotE when it was just the Force Sensitive Exile, and it's probably gotten to be a broader occurrence now that FaD is on shelves and Force users are the primary starting character option.

I'll admit, I nearly fell into that trap too with my very first character in an prolonged EotE game, but I was able to recognize the pitfall for what it was before I'd invested too much XP into Move, and accepted that for a while said power was going to be "utility" and that the idea of a "Force wizard" from Saga Edition just wasn't going to be a thing anytime soon.

Yeah I am guessing it's the typical Force Rating One Blues that most players get, but was hoping for a specific reason from him that we could break down directly, instead of just general statements about the mechanics.

Sorry - busy few days since my last post - but you guys are absolutely 100% correct. When I got my new F&D book from amazon, none of my group had ever played the game before. After doing some reading around these forums, I knew not to expect movie-level powers, but I hadnt fully considered the investment required, and lost sight of the fact that Shien Expert was one of the few talent tree's with no FR upgrade. I just knew I wanted move\upgrades. Overly excited to start, really poor planning and comprehension on my part.

I "get by" in combat - Ranged Light (1y1g). Due to banking on shien technique using cunning for currently non-existent lightsaber combat - I just feel pretty disjointed with no real synergies to play with.

If my GM allows, I'll stick with the character but move the extra point from INT (this was for RP reasons that havent come up) back to AGI and be more proficient with my blaster until I decide to be brave and try using the training saber...

Definitely don't knock the Training saber, it may have its limitations, but its fully capable of Parry/Reflect and the Hilt can be Modded to suit your needs as well. Considering you are a Shien Expert I assume you have a decent Cunning, with agility 3 the Double Bladed saber is a solid option. A Double Bladed Training Saber still has the Linked 1 quality, so even though you cant crit and soak is effective you can hit twice for 6+ Success.

Move is definitely a tough Force Power on low Force Rating characters, your much better with Sense, Enhance and Foresee.

Have you asked you Gm if you can rebuild your PC now that your group actually have a solid idea of how they system works?

While a training lightsaber doesn't look all that awesome on paper, it's still got a base damage of 6 and against Rivals and Minions (most of what you'll be facing in a fight), strain gets converted to wounds, so damage is damage. If you are going to go with Agility 3, then a double-bladed lightsaber isn't a bad investment, since two Advantage gets you an extra hit, and with Cunning 3 and at last 1 rank in Lightsaber, success with at least a couple advantage (especially if you're benefitting from boost dice from your allies) isn't an unreasonable outcome of a combat check.

Plus, as Richardbuxton said, a training lightsaber lets you make use of Parry and especially Reflect, so it's entirely possibly to use Improved Reflect with just a training 'saber, allowing you to improve your damage output at the opposition's expense. Though in that case, I'd suggest investing in the Sense power and the left side of the power tree to upgrade enemies' attack difficulties, thus providing a better chance of them rolling a despair or enough threat for you to make use of Improved Reflect.

Sorry - busy few days since my last post - but you guys are absolutely 100% correct. When I got my new F&D book from amazon, none of my group had ever played the game before. After doing some reading around these forums, I knew not to expect movie-level powers, but I hadnt fully considered the investment required, and lost sight of the fact that Shien Expert was one of the few talent tree's with no FR upgrade. I just knew I wanted move\upgrades. Overly excited to start, really poor planning and comprehension on my part.

I "get by" in combat - Ranged Light (1y1g). Due to banking on shien technique using cunning for currently non-existent lightsaber combat - I just feel pretty disjointed with no real synergies to play with.

If my GM allows, I'll stick with the character but move the extra point from INT (this was for RP reasons that havent come up) back to AGI and be more proficient with my blaster until I decide to be brave and try using the training saber...

I find it helpful to think of the various Force Talent trees, as their own Specialization tree. And given the amount of exp investment to fully upgrade one of them, it's pretty accurate I think. If you are investing into Move, you will be powerful with it, even with 1 Force Rating. You won't be able to upgrade a lot of things at once. But having multiple ranks in the various upgrade types (Control, Strength, Range, etc), means that with an expenditure of 1 Force pip, you can do something pretty **** impressive. Sure you might have to sacrifice Sihouette to get Range, or vice versa, but considering how different encounters will be, that's not a big deal in my book.

I have a player who had a lot invested into Move, and he was using it very effectively on small objects throughout the campaign. Being able to grab a handheld sized object from Medium range might not seem like much. But when that object is the valuable Jedi holocron that you are there to steal, and grabbing it from medium range means you can bypass the security systems the Relic Collecter has in place for his prized item, it's pretty handy.

Or by moving a vine over so a person who is about to fall out of a tree can grab it and make it down safely. Flipping a switch on a security terminal, typing in a complex code sequence from across a room to release your allies ship, etc. All kinds of things.

Don't let having an FR of 1 make you feel down, it just means you have to be clever and creative with your Force usage to really take advantage of it. Once you get FR 2, that changes very quickly, as you are now able to have enough pips to trigger multiple upgrades if you wish "Why yes I would like to grab that silhouette 2 monster at Medium range and throw him down for 20 damage please, thank you very much." But you are hardly without utility at your current level. Just be clever and creative, and think about how little things in the environment could help your situation, and try and move those things.

I dunno how many folks agree, but my general idea of character progression in F&D almost always starts with a non-lightsaber spec. The reasoning, of course, is that it will probably be a while before you get a lightsaber (though there's nothing wrong with an Ancient Sword or Training Saber), and taking another spec might let you hit FR 2 before lightsabers enter the game. Then, when your group starts becoming Jedi-esque, you already have a "thing." Sure, your "thing" can be "Jedi Lightsaber badass," but I find it much more interesting to be something before you started down the Jedi path. Tribal wizard, corporate spy, starfighter pilot and local rabble-rouser are all fun character backgrounds, and give you a pile of skills and abilities that will make the Jedi you later become pretty interesting.

That's why my character (started as a Seer) was a child of famous holo-actress, who was kept indoors for most of his childhood because of his "abilities", namely the capability to read minds. It sort of made sense that he would be stronger in the Force and be able to discover abilities on his own, since he rarely had anyone around. I unlocked the Makashi Duelist tree only three sessions ago, since I didn't get a lightsaber for quite a while. Not that my character really uses one since he's a pacifist/non-violent. Now he's a happy, 99 Morality student of the Force who follows his own path. Mystic and Consular in general are great careers for a solo-game like the one I'm playing in.

Regarding lightsabers, they are a double-edged sword (well, actually a zero-edged...yeah, I guess the pun was intended ), in that they can be a very potent weapon, if you wish, and they can be a very capable defense, if you can muster up the skill, but they WILL get you killed. Your mileage may vary, certainly, but if you are playing when the game books seem to place you, during the original movies, or so, this weapon is the thing that will get you noticed by the Empire. You're a powerful, Force-manipulating magician? Meh, you can use the Force subtly, and avoid notice, or prey on the ignorance of simpletons, and be fine, but you pull out a sword, something most people not in the employ of Jabba the Hutt, don't even use, and then it happens to be made out of energy, and cut through...pretty much anything, like a light knife through butter, this is the thing people will remember, and you can't really explain it away. People, for the most part, are loyal to the Empire; it's the legitimate government of the galaxy, no matter how terrible it might seem, on the bad days, so most people will report seeing a beam sword, the most recognizable aspect of a Jedi, to the authorities, well before the nosy neighbor can report them for "just the strange things that seem to happen around them". An Inquisitor, or Stormtroopers, WILL show up, looking for it. Are you a Jedi? No? They'll still want to know where you found that thing, and if there are more. You might not actually die, but it will be the thing that betrays you, if you are actively trying to hide the truth of your origins.

Years ago, probably 2002, I got a chance to play Star Wars d6. I think we did Operation Shantipole, where the players are part of the Alliance, and need to retrieve the two B-Wing prototypes, before the Empire captures them. My character was Rom Kota, before the Force Unleashed series was even a thing, having survived the Clone Wars, back when they were actually that (sorry, I harp), only to watch as the Jedi Order biffed it, and the Empire rose. He spent the next few decades drowning in booze, losing himself (withered by age), much of his connection to the Force (our Young Force Emergent was considerably better with Force powers than my former Council member), and most of his hope for a better future. What he DID keep was his lightsaber, and his awesome combination of skill, and damage. I talked our GM into letting me sneak in a blaster pistol, as the pre-gen didn't have one, and actually used it, sort of well, for the bulk of the game, while we poked around through the base, dodging Stormtroopers, and a larval space worm. That thing, I killed in ONE shot, with my lightsaber, and that's how the other characters learned what I was. When we had to run from way to many Stormtroopers, and I thought I'd pull a Kenobi, and this is where I'm going to actually tie all this to the point above (thanks for reading all of this, though ). So, we were getting swarmed, and couldn't stop to fight, because we needed to get to the ships, and fly off with them. My old drunk actually couldn't pilot the ships, or be much good in space combat, but I thought I COULD keep all the Stormtroopers there, while the party escaped. I drew the lightsaber, and when the Stormtroopers saw it, EVERY shot came at me. There were four other people in the room, and one could even throw crap at them, with his mind, but the lightsaber drew every shot, like it had that as a special quality. Fortunately, the pre-gen DID come with ungodly deflecting skill, so while I wasn't much at bouncing blaster shots back at the enemy, they couldn't land many hits. Problem, the party didn't run, but we widdled down many of the Stormtroopers, got through a door, and closed it, running like chickens. It's been a while, but I think we actually made it to the hangar, and the Stormtroopers were just rushing in, having broken through the door we closed on them. We couldn't take off with them shooting at us, but we quit for the night, and that game never continued.

So, start a game with a lightsaber, and EVERYONE will know what you are, even if you are NOT one. You want to live long enough to get talented, and be able to fend those foes off? Suggest you forgo the lightsber, at least at first, or use it only when necessary, because if your GM is doing their job right, whoever you are, having that weapon immediately makes you Priority Target #1. Anyone will know that thing, and everyone will remember. The bad guys WILL come looking for it, and you, making for a much more aggressive game, more than likely. Bad guys don't HAVE to be dumb, like my example might have made them seem, but they WILL seek to immobilize you, and remove the threat your weapon poses. The Force can get you in trouble, but the Force can be concealed, sleight of handed, or talked under the rug, perhaps with a hand wave to forget you saw it, but a lightsaber WILL be noticed, is slightly LESS subtle than an Inquisitor's rosette, AND will make half of everybody scared of you, wanting to hurt you, or jealous of you, wanting to manipulate you to take care of their problems for them. Have fun with it.