Who do you Sword-thain?

By Slothgodfather, in Strategy and deck-building

The topic was brought up in another thread about what is the most popular ally per sphere to Sword-thain, so I decided to look through the available options and see what I considered the best:

Of the available unique allies, here are the top of the list for me for each sphere based on stats/abilities/traits

Leadership: Anborn, Ceorl, Eldahir, Faramir, Gimli and Eothain

Lore: Anborn, Gleowine, Gildor Inglorion and Haldir of Lorien

Spirit: Arwen, Emery, Gamling, Glorfindel and Sam

Tactics: Azain Silverbeard, Boromir, Deorwine, and Legolas

In each case, the only thing that really shines is the capacity to put Unexpected Courage on them to trigger their ability multiple times - or to get use out of their stats after using their ability - or to be able to put certain weapons/armor on them that are restricted to heroes.

LEADERSHIP (Faramir/Ceorl): Faramir is likely my favorite choice for the UC+super willpower combo. Ceorl in an interesting choice since he can be passed around the table. See HERE for support deck around this idea. Anborn has an awesome combo potential with Wingfoot. Eothain and Gimli both offer built in readying effects and Eldahir has a really good ability (for multiplayer). Eldahir is likely the weakest choice.

LORE (Gleowine/Gildor): Gleowine and Gildor Inglorion are excellent choices, again provided you give them an Unexpected Courage to make the most out of the card advantages they offer. Haldir has excellent keywords/traits but is only relevant in multiplayer. Anborn has good stats and could get back multiple traps. I think it is a tie between Gleowine and Gildor since they offer card advantage.

SPIRIT (Glorfindel/Emery): Arwen is a good choice - again due to UC - so you can give out multiple +1 shields. Gamling, with UC, could help keep your hand full of Rohan allies. Both are poor choices without UC. Sam has a built in readying effect and with Sword-thain resource he can fuel himself. But due to the amazing stat line, traits and built-in readying effect, Glorfindel is the best choice in general, but Emery is the best choice in a Caldara deck.

TACTICS (Legolas): Legolas is hands down the best option to give Tactics more access to card draw. Getting a Horse on him to get multiple uses is vital and it is an in-sphere solution to needing readying effects. Azain and Deorwine both have great keywords/abilities/traits to make use of. Could use a Warhorse on Azain or an Armored Destrier to get more uses out of them. Bofur and Rumil almost made the list, but Legolas is better than both of them in every way.

From Neutral , yes, there is an neutral option and it's Gandalf. Because you can put Narya on him, giving him the printed Leadership sphere, so you can still Sword-thain him. This is a ridiculous amount of work, but would be fantastic to see done sometime. He doesn't exhaust to commit to the quest and can have all of Gandalf's other toys. Just don't forget to threat up by an additional 2 each round to keep him around.

What do you guys think? Did I leave anyone out that you'd put up there as a prime option for Sword-thain? Do you agree with my top choices for each sphere?

Edited by Slothgodfather

You can't Sword-Thain Gandalf because he's neutral and the ally has to belong to a sphere of influence. (EDIT - You can if you give him Narya first.)

There are a lot of people you can make better with UC and other attachments, but a lot of the time you are better of putting those attachments on regular heroes. The one exception is Faramir, because his exhaust ability is so strong and easy to use multiple times (unlike Arwen).

But if you ask me, the best Sword-Thain target is Emery. I say that because the best deck for Sword-Thain is the Caldara deck, and if you are playing with Hero Arwen you can play Emery and Sword-Thain on turn 1.

Edited by Teamjimby

You can't Sword-Thain Gandalf because he's neutral and the ally has to belong to a sphere of influence.

There are a lot of people you can make better with UC and other attachments, but a lot of the time you are better of putting those attachments on regular heroes. The one exception is Faramir, because his exhaust ability is so strong and easy to use multiple times (unlike Arwen).

But if you ask me, the best Sword-Thain target is Emery. I say that because the best deck for Sword-Thain is the Caldara deck, and if you are playing with Hero Arwen you can play Emery and Sword-Thain on turn 1.

With Narya, Gandalf gains the Leadership resource Icon. I was under the impression that he is then treated as a Leadership ally, and could be Sword-thain-ed. Though I don't recall if this has been ruled for/against.

Emery should definitely be on the list for Caldara decks.

I agree that UC is often taken by existing heroes, but getting extra draw for tactics - through Legolas - seems well worth the investment. UC typically goes on a hero to get multiple uses out of their stats, but that's why most of these allies are on the list, because they have an ability you want to use, and stats you'd want to use.

You can't Sword-Thain Gandalf because he's neutral and the ally has to belong to a sphere of influence.

Sad that you cannot, then, give Saruman Sword Thain. Then the card you dump out of play would remain out of play forever! Oh well.

Nevermind, I think you can Sword-Thain Gandalf if you give him Narya first. Sword-Thain doesn't require any printed resource icon.

Sword Thaining Glorfindel then allows you to Asfaloth him.

Nobody Sword-thains Keen-Eyed Took?

Edited by Lecitadin
But if you ask me, the best Sword-Thain target is Emery. I say that because the best deck for Sword-Thain is the Caldara deck, and if you are playing with Hero Arwen you can play Emery and Sword-Thain on turn 1.

When I get both Emery and Sword-thain in my starting hand, I know it's going to be a good game!

One other interesting target is Ceorl, because he's the only unique character that you can freely pass between players. That allows you to stack resources on him with Steward, give him a few songs, and send him to whichever player needs the resources.

For an example, Warden of Arnor made this deck .

edited the OP to include Emery and Ceorl. I really like that Ceorl deck idea. Likely going to build that for my next fellowship questing. I was already the support role anyways.

Nobody Sword-thains Keen-Eyed Took?

I know you're joking, but for completeness' sake, I will point out that nonunique allies cannot receive Sword-thain. Which brings up a question only kind of related to the OP: are there any nonunique allies you wish could be Sword-thain'ed? Nothing jumps especially to mind, although a boosted Erebor Battlemaster or potentially a tricked-out Mirkwood Runner might be good for consistent readying.

Dwalin is also a good target because you can use the Stargazer to put sword thain on the too if your deck, then use well equipped to bypass the high cost.

I didn't like Dwalin just because his stats aren't very good. 2 shield and 3 health isn't going to be defending much.

The nomination of Emery is solely depending on her ability to get into play for free, and I think because of Caldara she's the most likely hero to actually be sword-thained. I would guess in a Caldara deck Ioreth will be a more popular sword-thain target than Glorfindel ever would be, simply from cost reasons, although Glorfindel is clearly the card with the best stat line.

For Leadership, I have to go with Gimli. Faramir's willpower-buffing with UC is unmatched, but Gimli's built-in readying is the most useful of the bunch (IMO) and free.

For Lore, I have to agree with Gleowine for the card draw.

With Arwen, the difficulty is getting her to exhaust more than once, for repeated buffs -- Unexpected Courage is not enough. There's only one attachment I think she can use to make herself exhaust again before combat, and that's Palantir. So she could Palantir, ready with UC, and then quest, for two separate defense buffs. I still think if uniques were promoted to heroes, Arwen would be more popular as a hero (much lower threat cost, useful ability), but most of the time she's going to be equally useful as hero or ally, unlike Glorfindel.

Sam's built-in-readying is suspect -- sword-thain gives him the resource to ready, but still needs to be paired with threat increase, and without a power that requires him to exhaust, his stats aren't worth much once he readied.

Legolas's card draw would be so reliable for Tactics there's just no other contenders -- but if you had hero Legolas already, Deorwine has the makings of a very sweet defender.

For sheer efficiency, if you could sword-thain non-uniques, I think Mirkwood Runner would be the best candidate in existence. Buff his attack with one of the many hero-buffing attack options, give him unexpected courage, and watch your enemies melt away.

We really need a tournament for this :) .

Yea, the problem with Arwen is her ability is marginal anymore and her hero version is getting more play that Glorfindel!

I don't see the appeal of Sword-Thain on Gimli. How is having a hero version of him any better than the ally version?

I don't think Arwen's ability is marginal at all, I think it's still one of the best ally abilities out there, and packaging it with a 2-cost 2-wp quester is insane value. An attachment that grants +1D/sentinel, can be put on characters, and can change characters without cost each round would be fair value for 2 in two-handed play, and Arwen gives you it for free. Didn't she win the ally championship within the last year? Arwen hero is great and popular, but losing access to Arwen ally diminishes her a little.

However, her great ability isn't enhanced at all by sword-thaining her, because it's so difficult to exhaust her twice. Great ability -- doesn't synergize with UC.

Sword-thain on Gimli is useful because you can slap hero attachments on him. If you don't buff his attack or defense with those, there's no particular reason to sword-thain Gimli over any other unique leadership ally.

That's fair. I should have been more specific. Sure, she is great, but there are plenty of other avenues to get +1 shield. The sentinel is great in many circumstances, but often I find I'm just using the +1 shield to top off my main defender who already has sentinel and an UC to boot. Thain-ing her doesn't really offer enough to warrant it. That's why Glorfindel is just the best option outside of a Caldara deck.

Sword-thain on Gimli is useful because you can slap hero attachments on him. If you don't buff his attack or defense with those, there's no particular reason to sword-thain Gimli over any other unique leadership ally.

I just can't think of any hero attachments that would make him great. Ring Mail can be attached to allies. King Under the Mountain would be useful, but it seems crazy to rely on that if you don't have any other Dwarf Heroes. Other attachments like UC, Citadel Plate, etc are probably just as useful or better on another hero.

I think it's more that you likely have 3x of a restricted attachment and only plan to use 2 of them. Drawing the 3rd is normally wasted - as is my experience - and he would be a solid option. Such as the new warhorse to assist in sentinel defense. I still think Faramir is the best option. Putting an UC on him makes questing ridiculous.

Edited by Slothgodfather

Sword-thain on Gimli is useful because you can slap hero attachments on him. If you don't buff his attack or defense with those, there's no particular reason to sword-thain Gimli over any other unique leadership ally.

I just can't think of any hero attachments that would make him great. Ring Mail can be attached to allies. King Under the Mountain would be useful, but it seems crazy to rely on that if you don't have any other Dwarf Heroes. Other attachments like UC, Citadel Plate, etc are probably just as useful or better on another hero.

Dunedain Warning x3, Dunedain Mark x3, and Armored Destrier are the best combat-enhancing leadership attachments, none are unique, and the warnings/marks can be moved. Having a 2/2/2/3 hero with a built-in Wingfoot may not be that appealing if you already have Rangers and Lore access, but I think it's quite valuable if you don't.

I agree you wouldn't keep a King Under the Mountain around without dwarf heroes. Of course, if you are running a dwarf deck with Dain, a 3/3/2/3 hero with a built-in wingfoot would be *very* useful.

Sword-thain on Gimli is useful because you can slap hero attachments on him. If you don't buff his attack or defense with those, there's no particular reason to sword-thain Gimli over any other unique leadership ally.

I just can't think of any hero attachments that would make him great. Ring Mail can be attached to allies. King Under the Mountain would be useful, but it seems crazy to rely on that if you don't have any other Dwarf Heroes. Other attachments like UC, Citadel Plate, etc are probably just as useful or better on another hero.

Dunedain Warning x3, Dunedain Mark x3, and Armored Destrier are the best combat-enhancing leadership attachments, none are unique, and the warnings/marks can be moved. Having a 2/2/2/3 hero with a built-in Wingfoot may not be that appealing if you already have Rangers and Lore access, but I think it's quite valuable if you don't.

I agree you wouldn't keep a King Under the Mountain around without dwarf heroes. Of course, if you are running a dwarf deck with Dain, a 3/3/2/3 hero with a built-in wingfoot would be *very* useful.

If you could use the readying during combat to get multiple attacks or defenses, I would totally agree. But since it just means he can quest and either attack or defend, I don't see the value. If you are running a typical Leadership hero like Aragorn, Halbarad, Elfhelm, or Faramir, you are probably better off putting those Dunedain Warning/Mark or Destrier on those guys. Or at least it is equal value as putting them on Gimli.

Sword-thain on Gimli is useful because you can slap hero attachments on him. If you don't buff his attack or defense with those, there's no particular reason to sword-thain Gimli over any other unique leadership ally.

I just can't think of any hero attachments that would make him great. Ring Mail can be attached to allies. King Under the Mountain would be useful, but it seems crazy to rely on that if you don't have any other Dwarf Heroes. Other attachments like UC, Citadel Plate, etc are probably just as useful or better on another hero.

Dunedain Warning x3, Dunedain Mark x3, and Armored Destrier are the best combat-enhancing leadership attachments, none are unique, and the warnings/marks can be moved. Having a 2/2/2/3 hero with a built-in Wingfoot may not be that appealing if you already have Rangers and Lore access, but I think it's quite valuable if you don't.

I agree you wouldn't keep a King Under the Mountain around without dwarf heroes. Of course, if you are running a dwarf deck with Dain, a 3/3/2/3 hero with a built-in wingfoot would be *very* useful.

If you could use the readying during combat to get multiple attacks or defenses, I would totally agree. But since it just means he can quest and either attack or defend, I don't see the value. If you are running a typical Leadership hero like Aragorn, Halbarad, Elfhelm, or Faramir, you are probably better off putting those Dunedain Warning/Mark or Destrier on those guys. Or at least it is equal value as putting them on Gimli.

It's true that there's no lack of 2/2/2 heroes in leadership. The advantage to putting (or more likely, moving) Marks or Warnings to Gimli over Elfhelm or Faramir would precisely be the action advantage. Those guys are just as good as sword-thained Gimli in combat (barring Dain), better for defense actually, because they have more hp. But they can't quest *and* fight without a readying effect, and Gimli *can*. That's why you'd move the combat buffs to Gimli, because if you don't have an engaged enemy, you can quest all your heroes and still have a buffed hero if an enemy comes out. Why would you prefer the Marks or Warnings on another 2/2/2 hero if there's no enemies out?

Now if you have an engaged enemy already (preferably Forest Snared), Halbarad is better, because he doesn't exhaust to quest. And Aragorn is better for Marks because he can always quest and ready (for 1 resource) and he starts with 3 attack.

It is fair to say that there's no hero attachment out there that dramatically increases Gimli's value if sword-thained, as is the case with Faramir and Unexpected Courage. However, if you were running mono-leadership and wanted to waste your resources on Sword-thain for some reason, I think Gimli would be the best choice.

Yeah, I can see a little bit of value there from the perspective that it can allow you to quest harder if you want to. I'm just not blown away by it.

Speaking of readying, Forlong would be a good target. With readying each phase, you could use him for things like Peace and Thought or Common Cause. If only he was noble, then Captain's Wisdom and Palantir would be in play.