In x-wing Decimator has higher speed green maneuvers than YT-1300, so maybe it could get speed 3 - it would make it different to YV-666.

Hull - 6 or 7

- I must say that I don't really like high hull values on "big ship" squadrons - I don't know how many ships are represented by one stand, but it is strange that they are so much more robust than snubfighters, especially against capital ship fire, while actually bigger ships should be easier to hit by piont defence than a swarm of smaller and usually faster targets. In fact it is practically impossible for Victory to destroy a single YT-1300 in 6 turns, but no problem to shoot down hundreads of Tie Fighters. And the fact that roughly half of available capital ships can deal up to 6 hits to Firespray (6 turns) and 3 on average, while Firespray can deal up to 12 and 9 on average through 6 turn of fire is quite difficult to explain. But maybe one stand is a lot of Firesprays.

I share the same idea. An ISD would have a hard time roasting a YT or YV over the course of a game has always been a bit hard to swallow since they are "bigger" targets. This is the future after all their targeting computers can't suck that bad.

It was partially also why I wondered if the VT shouldn't be a flotilla instead but then I think you have the interesting problem that in flotillas vs squadrons, flotillas seem outclassed in favor of squadrons. If you discount the scatter, 4 hits from a squadron and a flotilla is doomed. Not far from tie fighter territory. Sorta minimal anti-squadron.... (1 black, 1 blue, 2 blue ... kinda ew) but at least shoot against a wide arc.

In x-wing Decimator has higher speed green maneuvers than YT-1300, so maybe it could get speed 3 - it would make it different to YV-666.

Hull - 6 or 7

- I must say that I don't really like high hull values on "big ship" squadrons - I don't know how many ships are represented by one stand, but it is strange that they are so much more robust than snubfighters, especially against capital ship fire, while actually bigger ships should be easier to hit by piont defence than a swarm of smaller and usually faster targets. In fact it is practically impossible for Victory to destroy a single YT-1300 in 6 turns, but no problem to shoot down hundreads of Tie Fighters. And the fact that roughly half of available capital ships can deal up to 6 hits to Firespray (6 turns) and 3 on average, while Firespray can deal up to 12 and 9 on average through 6 turn of fire is quite difficult to explain. But maybe one stand is a lot of Firesprays.

Okay, there are a number of people making the speed 3 argument. It's true that the YT-1300 does not have a green 3 forward, while the VT-49 does, but the YT-1300 can turn much tighter. The YV-666 also has a 3 green with wider turns, but FFG feels that it should also have a Move of 2.

I think both raw speed and the ability to come about should factor into Armada's more abstract understanding of a ship's maneuverability.

Anymore, I'm taking the phrase 'squadron' as very loosely defined. I'm almost okay in thinking of the model as representing exactly as in-universe craft as there are models on the stand (3 for most; one for the singles). Obviously that brings us the conundrum of why the singles are represented with a lot more hull points than a number of other craft should have, especially when they have less agility than their smaller counterparts. Maybe because a group of 3 fighters presents a more target-rich environment, and it's easier to hit one out of three than one out of one? I don't know. I'm not going to agonize over it too much.

I share the same idea. An ISD would have a hard time roasting a YT or YV over the course of a game has always been a bit hard to swallow since they are "bigger" targets. This is the future after all their targeting computers can't suck that bad.

The future?? Erm, brotha... "a long time ago"?

Personally, I would make it into a slow Escort for the Imps. Use them as picket ships around the big boys, for intercepting enemy squadrons.

Give it Escort & Grit.

7 hull. Speed 2.

Anti squadron 3 blue one black, battery 2 blue.

Ace squadron, Friendly ships may reroll one die when attacking squadrons within distance one of you. Double brace.

Taking this in a different direction, should the VT be a flotilla over a squadron maybe?

Another factor to consider is I think it can be said that the VT was designed to be a military vessel as compared to something pressed into service. I mean hey I'm sure garbage can absorb damage and all but I'd like to think the VT is at least designed for it and as a result the stats should be better for it.

So for me if it's a squadron :

Hull: 7

Move: 3

Anti-Squadron: 1 blue, 2 black

Anti-ship: 2 blue

Keywords:

Counter 1

Bomber

Rogue

Grit

Points: 22

The Problem are the Ubertransports in itself: These civilian freighters and transports are ridicilous good. Even if we imagine that a "squadron" of YT-1300 represents at least 3 craft (which is strange if you take the Ace varianats), they should not be able to hold their own against dedicated military fighter crafts or even whole squadrons (each 12 crafts strong) of it.

I like you rules, but I think the others fit more.

What we keep in mind is that high hull + counter is much more worth than low hull and counter, espaccally if the craft doesnt have "Heavy". A hull 7-8 non heavy counter 1 craft could easily pinn down a whole wing of fighters with ease.

Taking this in a different direction, should the VT be a flotilla over a squadron maybe?

Another factor to consider is I think it can be said that the VT was designed to be a military vessel as compared to something pressed into service. I mean hey I'm sure garbage can absorb damage and all but I'd like to think the VT is at least designed for it and as a result the stats should be better for it.

So for me if it's a squadron :

Hull: 7

Move: 3

Anti-Squadron: 1 blue, 2 black

Anti-ship: 2 blue

Keywords:

Counter 1

Bomber

Rogue

Grit

Points: 22

Ah, you're taking this in a very different direction, so I want to take the challenge seriously. Your idea is much more as an anti-ship platform than anti-squadron. You also see it as a faster ship. We share 'Rogue' and 'Counter 1'.

There's so very little in the lore to suggest it as one or the other. I guess, in Star Wars: Commander (which is Canon, not Legends) it is a bomber in that it is deployed against infantry. So, I think you score points for your interpretation there.

My conception comes from its stated role as a long-range reconnaissance vessel (it also says that it's a transport for raiding parties, which would be a ground role). In regard to reconnaissance, I guess it would be there to detect enemy fleets. If it's just there to detect and not engage, the most immediate threat to it would be enemy fighters being sent to destroy it before it could complete its sensor scanning mission and hit the hyperdrives to report back to the fleet. (Ergo: Counter 1 and anti-squadron.)

But you make a good point. What does everyone else think?

As with most military craft, its likely to be modified for different roles. Why not make two different statslines. One for the Recon role and one for the bombing duty?

Hull: 7

I have an idea how capital ship anti squadron fire could work. If capital ships had more AS dice, but they would not attack all the squadrons in arc with full power, but instead they would have to divide the dice equaly amongst all targets (you would assign each squadron one die, if there would be more dice than squadrons, you would start to assign secon die etc. If there is less dice than squadron, some would not be shot at, or some would receive two dice and some only one). This way a single attacking squadron would be dealt with quicker, as the fire would be more concentrated, but a large swarm would be even more resiliant to capital ship fire.

Such change is now impossible, but tell me what do you think about it.

I have an idea how capital ship anti squadron fire could work. If capital ships had more AS dice, but they would not attack all the squadrons in arc with full power, but instead they would have to divide the dice equaly amongst all targets (you would assign each squadron one die, if there would be more dice than squadrons, you would start to assign secon die etc. If there is less dice than squadron, some would not be shot at, or some would receive two dice and some only one). This way a single attacking squadron would be dealt with quicker, as the fire would be more concentrated, but a large swarm would be even more resiliant to capital ship fire.

Such change is now impossible, but tell me what do you think about it.

It think it would be difficult if not outright impossible to alter such a fundamental mechanic without having to change the balancing between caps and squadrons all together.

But I agree that the mechanic is somewhat unelegant and would definitely line up for a houserule that depicts capital AA fire more acurately and not like.. dunno, shotgunning.

I certainly love the idea of a decimator as a squadron. It is a purpose-built military craft so it should have some unique synergies and consequently, perhaps be a point or two cheaper because of it (it's easier to design a torpedo launcher into a ship than it is to add it as a mod).

With that said, those of you who are gurus on point values for stats, please evaluate this take on the VT-49.

Hull: 8 - it's a purpose-built tank not a jury-rigged freighter

Speed 2 - this is a bit of a balance because a tank like this capable of 3 might be OP

Anti-squadron: 1 blue, 2 black - again, purpose-built for combat as a picket/screening ship

Anti-ship: 1 blue, 1 black - better targeting systems and more crew members make it better than a standard bomber could swap the blue for a red also

Bomber - it carries bombs and torpedoes

Rogue - a crewed vessel assigned to promising and aggressive young officers

Counter 1 - I have mixed feelings about this but it does have powerful turrets

Heavy - just not maneuverable enough to engage smaller ships

Points: 16 points - taking other similar ships into account but I take 1-2 points off for the "assembly line/purpose-built" factor

Commander Kenkirk for the ace with the following ability (borrowing from someone's idea above): when you are activated during the squadron phase, you may activate up to two friendly unactivated squadrons at range 1 as if they were activated during the ship phase. Add 6 points to the base VT.

Our community has some wonderfully creative people creating the ships and squadrons that FFG has not (yet) released. I really enjoy both Kuat Drive Yards , DA's Armada Shipyards , and Mel Miniatures .

Other than the 3d models on Mel's, KDY and DA's do not (yet) seem to have a version of the VT-49 Decimator as a squadron. If I want it, then I suppose I would have to make it (and KDY does allow those to be created), unless someone beats me to the punch.

Anyway, as I haven't made anything custom yet, I figured I would pose the first-blush version here, and let people critique it into workable stats.

In X-Wing, the VT-49 is a turret ship, like the YT-1300, beefier, but a bit more sluggish. I was thinking this:

Hull: 8

Move: 2

Anti-Squadron: 2 blue, 2 black

Anti-ship: 1 black

Keywords:

• Counter 1
• Heavy
• Rogue

Points: 17

Your thoughts?

It sports a basic payload of Proton Torpedoes, not missiles (so that means BOMBER keyword, typically). I'd give it similar to X-Wings with a Red anti-ship on the generic and a Black anti-ship on the unique, who'd probably be Kenkirk but perhaps Chiraneau.

Commander Kenkirk for the ace with the following ability (borrowing from someone's idea above): when you are activated during the squadron phase, you may activate up to two friendly unactivated squadrons at range 1 as if they were activated during the ship phase. Add 6 points to the base VT.

No, please save that ability for Lando "Gold Leader" Calrissian in the Falcon please. Kenkirk's X-Wing ability is all about survival, so maybe something like "When defending, before spending defense tokens, reduce the damage by 1"

So comparable ships

- YT1300 - 13 points - 1 less HP, 3blue antisquad instead of 2/2, Escort, Not Heavy.... Sounds reasonable

- YT2400 - 16 points - speed 4 (not 2), slightly less antifighter, 6 hull, not 8.

- Flying Garbage Truck Generic Bossk Thing - 15 points, same speed, same heavy, same antisquad, same rogue, no counter.

So you are saying this is a YV666 for 2 points more but you get counter 1 and 1 hit point...

I'd say the comparison to the rebels is ok but it basically steals the YV666's role in the fleet.

But then if you are of the opinion that the Imperials should have "line" versions of the generic rogues this might be the point!

Good. The Imperial fleet shouldn't need bounty hunter scum.

Commander Kenkirk for the ace with the following ability (borrowing from someone's idea above): when you are activated during the squadron phase, you may activate up to two friendly unactivated squadrons at range 1 as if they were activated during the ship phase. Add 6 points to the base VT.

No, please save that ability for Lando "Gold Leader" Calrissian in the Falcon please. Kenkirk's X-Wing ability is all about survival, so maybe something like "When defending, before spending defense tokens, reduce the damage by 1"

Or it could be Oicunn with the ability to cause 1 damage to any enemy squadron that he overlaps at the end of his movement. 3 points extra.

Our community has some wonderfully creative people creating the ships and squadrons that FFG has not (yet) released. I really enjoy both Kuat Drive Yards , DA's Armada Shipyards , and Mel Miniatures .

Other than the 3d models on Mel's, KDY and DA's do not (yet) seem to have a version of the VT-49 Decimator as a squadron. If I want it, then I suppose I would have to make it (and KDY does allow those to be created), unless someone beats me to the punch.

Anyway, as I haven't made anything custom yet, I figured I would pose the first-blush version here, and let people critique it into workable stats.

In X-Wing, the VT-49 is a turret ship, like the YT-1300, beefier, but a bit more sluggish. I was thinking this:

Hull: 8

Move: 2

Anti-Squadron: 2 blue, 2 black

Anti-ship: 1 black

Keywords:

• Counter 1
• Heavy
• Rogue

Points: 17

Your thoughts?

Looks good.

Regardless of actual stats, I'd really love to see a model for this on Shapeways as worst case, I can use it instead of the YV-666 model.

Regardless of actual stats, I'd really love to see a model for this on Shapeways as worst case, I can use it instead of the YV-666 model.

Voila:

Mel Miniatures

Thx, ordered a set :-)

Well, I'm glad I didn't go and have anything 3D printed.

Anyway, just for the sake of review:

Here's the current version on KDY:

VT-49 Decimator

It looks like I was right on the 8 hull, but wrong on the 2 speed.

I'm surprised by the damage - taking it as assumed that the named pilot (Morna Kee*) will not be too dissimilar from the unnamed one. With three black (Anti-Squadron) and 3 blue (battery), they're clearly seeing the VT-49 as more of an all-rounder, rather than more of an anti-squadron platform than an anti-ship one. Tgall was much closer with his suggestion of 1 blue, 2 black ; Anti-ship: 2 blue. Who knows, he might be spot-on when the unnamed gets revealed.

I did nail the key words, though.

At 27 for the named pilot, 18 for the unnamed might be somewhere in the ballpark.

* Morna Kee : I guess she was a bit-player in Aftermath . I'm really surprised that they didn't use one of the pilots from X-Wing. Maybe they'll come out in future campaign boxes.

You were not that far off Mikael.

You were not that far off Mikael.

Yeah, I'm rather pleasantly surprised. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

3 Generic Decimators (I am betting 24 points) and Morna Kee + Rhymer is 115 points. That is 12 blue and 1 black thrown from medium range, and the Decimators have rouge AND counter?!?! These things are practically capital ships of their own.

Who needs the fireball, when you have the Deciball.

3 Generic Decimators (I am betting 24 points) and Morna Kee + Rhymer is 115 points. That is 12 blue and 1 black thrown from medium range, and the Decimators have rouge AND counter?!?! These things are practically capital ships of their own.

Who needs the fireball, when you have the Deciball.

Which is fine as it compares to 13 Tie Bombers plus Rhymer.....

3 Generic Decimators (I am betting 24 points) and Morna Kee + Rhymer is 115 points. That is 12 blue and 1 black thrown from medium range, and the Decimators have rouge AND counter?!?! These things are practically capital ships of their own.

Who needs the fireball, when you have the Deciball.

Which is fine as it compares to 13 Tie Bombers plus Rhymer.....

24 hull vs say 18 + 5 + 20 if you use a 3 fire spray, Rhymer, 4 Aggressor combo.

Tough choices!

3 Generic Decimators (I am betting 24 points) and Morna Kee + Rhymer is 115 points. That is 12 blue and 1 black thrown from medium range, and the Decimators have rouge AND counter?!?! These things are practically capital ships of their own.

Who needs the fireball, when you have the Deciball.

are you sure? My eyes aren't what they used to be but the named looks like 21 points too me not 27, I would assume the generics to be less... maybe only at 19-20

3 Generic Decimators (I am betting 24 points) and Morna Kee + Rhymer is 115 points. That is 12 blue and 1 black thrown from medium range, and the Decimators have rouge AND counter?!?! These things are practically capital ships of their own.

Who needs the fireball, when you have the Deciball.

are you sure? My eyes aren't what they used to be but the named looks like 21 points too me not 27, I would assume the generics to be less... maybe only at 19-20

My eyes are also old (and near-sighted), but it also looks like 27 to me.

It also looks like 27 to me. 21 would be a steal.

Also Decimators don't have bomber. So the expected damage output against ships (assuming 3 blue dice) is the same as a Firespray since crits from the Deci count as nothing. I would probably argue the Firespray is still a better bomber because it can cause critical effects. The only advantage the Deci has is a better chance for an accuracy.