Today I attacked a ship that was already on a debris field with a Tractor Beam. It was a Range 3 shot, and to move him to Range 2 for TIE /D primary, I pulled him toward me. The way he was sitting on the debris field, this meant that his template and final position both overlapped the same debris field. We assumed he would take the effects of the obstacle again, after having just taken them in the activation phase. A regular TO agreed.

Did we handle that correctly?

It should be the same when you land fully on a obstacle. You get in the first turn your damage roll and when you move out the second. So yeah, you handled it right.

There's a strong contingent who argues that since the rules for obstacle effects only appear in relation to performing a maneuver during the Activation Phase, they don't apply anywhere else.

There's a strong contingent who argues that since the rules for obstacle effects only appear in relation to performing a maneuver during the Activation Phase, they don't apply anywhere else.

But there's that pesky little FAQ on Tractor Beam:

This is not an action or a maneuver, and can cause the ship to overlap obstacles (but not other ships). The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps.

There's a strong contingent who argues that since the rules for obstacle effects only appear in relation to performing a maneuver during the Activation Phase, they don't apply anywhere else.

But there's that pesky little FAQ on Tractor Beam:

This is not an action or a maneuver, and can cause the ship to overlap obstacles (but not other ships). The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps.

That^

It's clearly in official text that the ship takes the effects of the obstacle. I just kinda felt dirty making him land on it again in the same turn and then he'd have hit it a third time, IF he'd had a chance to do another maneuver.

Basically, every turn, I tractor beamed a kihraxz into two Defenders, and it evaporated before it fired.

You handled it correctly. Just because he landed on the debris field in the Activation phase doesn't make him immune to the effect during the Combat phase. Another way to look at it would be: if you tractored him onto the debris field from open space, would he suffer the effects? Of course he would. It was just incredibly good luck for you that he landed on it during the Activation phase and your tractor beam moved him onto it again in the Combat phase.

And for the record, I don't agree with the "strong contingent" arguing about the effects only being applicable after a manoeuvre. It's pretty clear in the FAQ that FFG intended for a ship that gets tractored onto an obstacle to suffer the effect of that obstacle. If I had someone try that argument with me over the table, I'd just pack up my ships right there. It's not worth playing against that sort of rules lawyer.

There's a strong contingent who argues that since the rules for obstacle effects only appear in relation to performing a maneuver during the Activation Phase, they don't apply anywhere else.

But there's that pesky little FAQ on Tractor Beam:

This is not an action or a maneuver, and can cause the ship to overlap obstacles (but not other ships). The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps.

Their argument is that "the effect" would be limited to not being able to attack (in the case of asteroids) or nothing at all (in the case of debris) because everything else you do (rolling for damage, gaining stress) is explicitly linked to "if you perform a maneuver and any part of your template or ship overlaps..." and this FAQ clearly says this is not a maneuver.

I'm not saying I agree with them -- I don't think FFG would have emphasized "suffers the effect" if they didn't mean for there to be any -- but there is definitely a contingent demanding this be more specifically addressed in an FAQ.

I agree that it should be clarified better in the FAQ. The only thing they did clarify was the reference card, but I still think the intent is indisputable. Rolling for damage or gaining stress may be "explicitly" linked to happening immediately after performing a manoeuvre under RAW, but then the majority of cards and abilities within the game are designed to be an exception to a rule, and I see this as a prime example.

Hitting the same obstacle twice in a round will have you suffer the effects twice.

As part of the "obstacle rules don't work correctly when not hit with a maneuver" contingent, it's clear that the intent is that something should happen but because the timing windows for when those things happen may not exist how are we supposed to make it happen?

Take the example of IG-88C with Collision Detectors. He uses the boost action and overlaps a debris field. Is he allowed to take his free Evade action before receiving the stress token? The rules for obstacles have you taking the stress token after the "check pilot stress" step. What substitute timing do you use in the absence of this step?

If Biggs has a single hull remaining and gets hit with Vessery with a tractor beam and moved onto an asteroid, does he roll for damage immediately or wait until after the attack finishes being resolved? If he rolls for it immediately, is he removed from the table right away or does he stick around until box 10 and force Vessery (who still has a legal shot at him) to choose him as a target for his primary attack? Again, the rules don't really provide guidance. If he had overlapped the asteroid as part of a maneuver he would be removed immediately after suffering the damage which would occur after a skipped perform action step.

Just wondering, unless your Dash, if you land on an asteroid of debris cloud and your next maneuver goes over the same asteroid/debris cloud do you roll for more damage?

Just wondering, unless your Dash, if you land on an asteroid of debris cloud and your next maneuver goes over the same asteroid/debris cloud do you roll for more damage?

You sure do.

Just wondering, unless your Dash, if you land on an asteroid of debris cloud and your next maneuver goes over the same asteroid/debris cloud do you roll for more damage?

You sure do.

There's a strong contingent who argues that since the rules for obstacle effects only appear in relation to performing a maneuver during the Activation Phase, they don't apply anywhere else.

But there's that pesky little FAQ on Tractor Beam:

This is not an action or a maneuver, and can cause the ship to overlap obstacles (but not other ships). The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps.

Their argument is that "the effect" would be limited to not being able to attack (in the case of asteroids) or nothing at all (in the case of debris) because everything else you do (rolling for damage, gaining stress) is explicitly linked to "if you perform a maneuver and any part of your template or ship overlaps..." and this FAQ clearly says this is not a maneuver.

I'm not saying I agree with them -- I don't think FFG would have emphasized "suffers the effect" if they didn't mean for there to be any -- but there is definitely a contingent demanding this be more specifically addressed in an FAQ.

this is one example why i like the Xwing community over the 40k one.

Xwing players are largely acceptable of what is obviously intended, 40k players are like this "its not exactly worded this way so it doesnt do anything" which is CLEARLY not intended. Same goes for the newly revealed collision detector.

i have literally never met a single person out of dozens of "competitive tourny players" that try to pull this.

You can't boost onto debris ...

I don't understand why people get upset still about tractor Beam onto a rock ... it's called a new mechanic to the game, tractor on a rock and roll for it .......

You can't boost onto debris ...

I don't understand why people get upset still about tractor Beam onto a rock ... it's called a new mechanic to the game, tractor on a rock and roll for it .......

There's a new upgrade that will permit boosting or barrel-rolling onto rocks.

You're right. It's a new mechanic but it's a problematic new mechanic because it suggests that it should be an exception to rules but lacks the specifics needed for those exceptions to be made. There have been two FAQ updates since the release of the Tractor Beam upgrade. Neither of them addressed the issue.

Have another question about tractor beam and obstacles:

If a ship is dragged 'through' an obstacle then does it take the damage etc... Thematically, it seems that a tractor beam while active would protect a ship (like a shield) until the tractor beam is turned off and the ship deposited in its new position. So if dumped on an asteroid, would take damage...taken 'around' then no damage.

Have another question about tractor beam and obstacles:

If a ship is dragged 'through' an obstacle then does it take the damage etc... Thematically, it seems that a tractor beam while active would protect a ship (like a shield) until the tractor beam is turned off and the ship deposited in its new position. So if dumped on an asteroid, would take damage...taken 'around' then no damage.

A ship suffers the effects of a obstacle whether they are dropped on it or pulled through it.

The most recent FAQ updates the rules so most of what is in this old thread is irrelevant.

Rules Reference (Obstacles, Page 14)
The following section should be added after the third paragraph of the
Obstacles entry:
"After a ship’s base or maneuver template overlaps an obstacle, and the
overlap is not from executing a maneuver, it suffers an effect based on the
type of obstacle:
•  Asteroid: The ship rolls 1 attack die. On a [HIT] result, it suffers one
damage; on a [CIRT] result, it suffers one critical damage. While a ship is
overlapping an asteroid, it cannot perform any attacks.
•  Debris Cloud: The ship receives 1 stress token. Then, the ship rolls 1
attack die. On a [CRIT] result, it suffers one critical damage."'

Worth noting that the TB template is *not* a manoeuvre template, so none of that text applies to it. If you're TBed (or use Collision Detectors to BR or boost or decloak) over an asteroid or debris cloud such that ONLY the template touches it, not the ship base, the effect isn't activated.

I don't think.

There's a strong contingent who argues that since the rules for obstacle effects only appear in relation to performing a maneuver during the Activation Phase, they don't apply anywhere else.

But there's that pesky little FAQ on Tractor Beam:

This is not an action or a maneuver, and can cause the ship to overlap obstacles (but not other ships). The ship suffers the effect of any obstacle it overlaps.

Their argument is that "the effect" would be limited to not being able to attack (in the case of asteroids) or nothing at all (in the case of debris) because everything else you do (rolling for damage, gaining stress) is explicitly linked to "if you perform a maneuver and any part of your template or ship overlaps..." and this FAQ clearly says this is not a maneuver.

I'm not saying I agree with them -- I don't think FFG would have emphasized "suffers the effect" if they didn't mean for there to be any -- but there is definitely a contingent demanding this be more specifically addressed in an FAQ.

this is one example why i like the Xwing community over the 40k one.

Xwing players are largely acceptable of what is obviously intended, 40k players are like this "its not exactly worded this way so it doesnt do anything" which is CLEARLY not intended. Same goes for the newly revealed collision detector.

i have literally never met a single person out of dozens of "competitive tourny players" that try to pull this.

Well to be fair GW rules are utter garbage it's not always clear what's intended I've had my share of games where 50% of the game our heads are in the rule book.

Worth noting that the TB template is *not* a manoeuvre template, so none of that text applies to it. If you're TBed (or use Collision Detectors to BR or boost or decloak) over an asteroid or debris cloud such that ONLY the template touches it, not the ship base, the effect isn't activated.

I don't think.

Well to be fair GW rules are utter garbage it's not always clear what's intended I've had my share of games where 50% of the game our heads are in the rule book.

It's more amusing to go through a GW rulebook and count the number of time the text "it is assumed..." appears. Honestly the number of times I've found something like that is ridiculous. They want something to happen, but can't figure out whether to make it a rule or not, so just go with telling the player to assume stuff instead. Truly hopeless.

Worth noting that the TB template is *not* a manoeuvre template, so none of that text applies to it. If you're TBed (or use Collision Detectors to BR or boost or decloak) over an asteroid or debris cloud such that ONLY the template touches it, not the ship base, the effect isn't activated.

I don't think.

"Maneuver template" is the name of the physical game component and isn't dependent on the purpose to which its being put. Page 3 of the "Learn to Play" document lists component names for X-Wing.

Or, in other words, you perform boosts, barrel rolls, etc., with maneuver templates and the new FAQ obstacle text applies to them.

It's sad that it took FFG three FAQs to finally explain what he actual effects were of be TB'd onto an obstacle was. Yes, it all seems logical now, but it was vague enough to argue all sorts of ways before.

Still, that was just one rule out of dozens which are usually much more clear without any FAQing, so good work FFG!

(As for Kavil using the Blaster Turret with Aggro, FAQing FAQs should go FAQ themselves)

Worth noting that the TB template is *not* a manoeuvre template, so none of that text applies to it. If you're TBed (or use Collision Detectors to BR or boost or decloak) over an asteroid or debris cloud such that ONLY the template touches it, not the ship base, the effect isn't activated.

I don't think.

. Some people certainly argued this until the latest FAQ

That was never the argument. The argument was that since the rules trigger due to a maneuver, anything that wasn't a maneuver ignored obstacles.

I've never seen anyone claim that maneuver templates cease to be maneuver templates when you are using them for something else before this.

Worth noting that the TB template is *not* a manoeuvre template, so none of that text applies to it. If you're TBed (or use Collision Detectors to BR or boost or decloak) over an asteroid or debris cloud such that ONLY the template touches it, not the ship base, the effect isn't activated.

I don't think.

"Maneuver template" is the name of the physical game component and isn't dependent on the purpose to which its being put. Page 3 of the "Learn to Play" document lists component names for X-Wing.

Or, in other words, you perform boosts, barrel rolls, etc., with maneuver templates and the new FAQ obstacle text applies to them.

No matter what you are doing with those templates, they are always referred to as "maneuver templates". The rules for boosting and barrel-rolling instruct you to use maneuver templates.