Oh come on, too close? You can see him shove the ship backwards when he places the template, then shove the template backwards when he places the ship. Then he does the third ship with the utmost precision. This was clearly a too convenient "mistake" for it to be called a mistake. This is a clear example of cheating.

I have to side with this. This isn't jerky bumbling. It's a concerted effort to manipulate his maneuvers, and it's immediately contrasted by the concise movement of the third ship. In the combat phase, the range is measured and it appears to be range one, but when the opponent bumps the shuttle, he acquiesced and have the U-boat range 2.

I have no doubt of this being wrong doing. The imperial player's shaky hands and accidents are in stark contrast to the malevolent maneuver manipulation shown here.

That seems a pretty common consensus at this point. Nevertheless, we aren't discussing whether or not he moved the ships to his advantage - we are discussing whether or not this was intentional. Since elsewhere in the same video the fellow handle his ships with equal... sloppiness... especially where it offered him no advantage one way or the other - I simply can't say that I am convinced it was intentional.

That isn't to say that I am convinced it wasn't intentional. Just that I can't confidently say with the majority that I have discerned the man's intentions, because nothing so advantageous could ever be accounted to sheer carelessness.

There's no doubt from me that it was malicious in intent. Watching more of the video, I get the sense that this guy feels like fudging his templates during maneuvers is A-OK and is fine at any point in the game, as he periodically shifts his ships during and post fight, yet he clearly is aware and capable of properly flying.

Boo. Poor form.

That isn't to say that I am convinced it wasn't intentional. Just that I can't confidently say with the majority that I have discerned the man's intentions, because nothing so advantageous could ever be accounted to sheer carelessness.

Carelessness, when taking measurement of moving objects with precision, tends to produce inconsistent results. While all of the results will be incorrect, they generally will not all be off in the same magnitude and/or direction. The individual in questions moved his ships with the precision of a surgeon. He does this not once, but four times. The evidence very strongly favors that he knew exactly what he was doing.

That said, I did not watch the entire recording. Maybe he moves all of his ships like that even when it would not benefit him. Maybe all of his movement are off and, on average, the errors are random.

This is why I probably will never play in a tournament. I bump/nudge stuff all the time. Most of my play group is understanding (and also bumps stuff), but it all drives the one FLGS player in our group nuts. Apparently competitive LGS players in my area get very upset at this sort of thing. I can only imagine if I went to even a league night and accidentally nudged something while playing. Trust me when I say when I accidentally nudge something, I am not getting an advantage--I bump into ships and fly into asteroids both with and without my clumsiness.

These weren't bumps, these were active slides. This is the worst kind of cheating, because an opponent from the different angle can't see that well, and he keeps moving so quickly.

This was cheating, and anyone seeing differently believes way too much in humanity.

To the players worried about people freaking out about bumping stuff: it happens all the time. Just say, "Oops, I bumped him a little bit, let me try to put him back" and, per the rules , if your opponent doesn't like it they have final say in the corrected position, provided they are doing their best to be fair as well. If you two can't agree, that's when you call a TO over . But, as others have pointed out, it's important to pay attention to what your opponent is doing. In the case in the video, cheating or not, his opponent would need to call him out on it if he "didn't notice" it himself.

I think the only fair thing to do is hang draw and quarter him them send the bits to the four corners of the world.

That is the intent when threads like this get posted, isn't it? To have the self appointed internet angry mob howl and rage?

I think the only fair thing to do is hang draw and quarter him them send the bits to the four corners of the world.

That is the intent when threads like this get posted, isn't it? To have the self appointed internet angry mob howl and rage?

I think the intent is to show ppl that you don't need to do this kinda of stuff. Maybe next time try not 4 fowarding too much instead of deliberately pushing your ship back.

I almost hope the Palp Aces player doesn't come across this thread.

It looks clearly cheating to me.

Seems like an incredible risky and stupid way to cheat though. With any knowledge of the rule of 11 the palp aces player could have known that the jumpmaster player was cheating. With these starting positions, they are about 18 bases apart. The ships moved 2x6 +4 = 16 bases. Which leaves less then 2,5 bases between the ships, so clearly R1.

It looks clearly cheating to me.

Seems like an incredible risky and stupid way to cheat though. With any knowledge of the rule of 11 the palp aces player could have known that the jumpmaster player was cheating.

Rule of 11? What might that be?

It looks clearly cheating to me.

Seems like an incredible risky and stupid way to cheat though. With any knowledge of the rule of 11 the palp aces player could have known that the jumpmaster player was cheating.

Rule of 11? What might that be?

If two ships start opposite one another at the limit of range 1 from the board edge, they are 11 small base lengths apart, if they just do straight manoeuvres it should be possible to know what range they should have been in just by adding up the number of base lengths they've moved.

This is why I probably will never play in a tournament. I bump/nudge stuff all the time. Most of my play group is understanding (and also bumps stuff), but it all drives the one FLGS player in our group nuts. Apparently competitive LGS players in my area get very upset at this sort of thing. I can only imagine if I went to even a league night and accidentally nudged something while playing. Trust me when I say when I accidentally nudge something, I am not getting an advantage--I bump into ships and fly into asteroids both with and without my clumsiness.

Bumping or knocking ships is part of the game. People generally don't mean to do it, but it should be remembered that the opponent has the final say when the ship is placed back to as close to the original position as possible. .

It looks clearly cheating to me.

Seems like an incredible risky and stupid way to cheat though. With any knowledge of the rule of 11 the palp aces player could have known that the jumpmaster player was cheating.

Rule of 11? What might that be?

If two ships start opposite one another at the limit of range 1 from the board edge, they are 11 small base lengths apart, if they just do straight manoeuvres it should be possible to know what range they should have been in just by adding up the number of base lengths they've moved.

Interesting information thank you. But I am thinking that measurement would be slightly off in the video since the palp shuttle wasn't out at the limit of R1 at the start, he was against the base of the mat. I do think the guy cheated and it is unfortunate that it wasn't noticed during the game.

It looks clearly cheating to me.

Seems like an incredible risky and stupid way to cheat though. With any knowledge of the rule of 11 the palp aces player could have known that the jumpmaster player was cheating.

Rule of 11? What might that be?

If two ships start opposite one another at the limit of range 1 from the board edge, they are 11 small base lengths apart, if they just do straight manoeuvres it should be possible to know what range they should have been in just by adding up the number of base lengths they've moved.

It has been used for a long time, but recently it is used to get into range 1 of a U Boat list with out giving them the opportunity to fire their torpedoes.

So then how do you handle this. Call the TO over and hope the guy is OK with being called a cheater. IDK how the streaming for this is set up, but unless you can pull up a recording its he said he said. As a judge, without seeing it happen through recording or otherwise, I'd have to rule in favor of the Scum player.

So then how do you handle this. Call the TO over and hope the guy is OK with being called a cheater. IDK how the streaming for this is set up, but unless you can pull up a recording its he said he said. As a judge, without seeing it happen through recording or otherwise, I'd have to rule in favor of the Scum player.

I think the best way to handle it is don't involve anyone at first and ask him to be more careful with his templates. If he doesn't, escalate from there. A lot of issues can be resolved by asking your opponent first, probably also lets them know you are on to them.

So then how do you handle this. Call the TO over and hope the guy is OK with being called a cheater. IDK how the streaming for this is set up, but unless you can pull up a recording its he said he said. As a judge, without seeing it happen through recording or otherwise, I'd have to rule in favor of the Scum player.

I think the best way to handle it is don't involve anyone at first and ask him to be more careful with his templates. If he doesn't, escalate from there. A lot of issues can be resolved by asking your opponent first, probably also lets them know you are on to them.

Oh... a thoughtful and measured response. The internet needs more of you sir.

The guy needs to be on this list..

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/op/spolicy/

Wonder what the others are there for!

Cheating at Jakku?

I guess those four fowards were worth...one half portion

Ok so the threads like this where a player seems to deliberately change the maneuver on the dial I think are clearly cheating and should be dealt with (if we can actually see it). But here, I don't see anything close to being able to call him out for certain as cheating. Perhaps he was and knew that millimeter difference would keep him at range 2. But I have as shaky of hands as anybody, and little scoots either closer, or further happen all the time because I have trouble keeping my hands steady. I'm hyper aware of it ever since a player called me out on it, but ironically, it proved to be more to my detriment at that event as it caused my ships I was flying in formation to bump when they should not have in a crucial round.

I say we leave this one alone.

Accidental bumpers? We have rules for that and if those rules are manipulated by either player we have judges to sort the situation out. If you accidentally nudge a ship then your opponent gets to replace it. Those are the rules. If you feel your opponent has not replaced the ship correctly you must call for a judge.

It's really not that hard to figure out and truth be told, the higher the level of competition the less you will find these dooshers.

Is cheater cheating? Undoubtedly. He should be retroactively punished. With wolves.

It was suspiscious for me too the first time I saw it, but didn't want to say something because...

. But I have as shaky of hands as anybody, and little scoots either closer, or further happen all the time because I have trouble keeping my hands steady.

That wasn't the product of shaky hands. My hands sometimes shake too (I really should drink less soda), and it never looks like what that guy did. Steady, smoothly, quickly sliding his ships and templates straight back as he moved them. No wobble to speak of. And then, yeah, it didn't happen with the third ship.

There is no slippery slope where we correctly identify this as cheating and then someone burns down your house because you have shaky hands. Really.