Best 34-point Imperial Ace: Go.

By Rinzler in a Tie, in X-Wing Squad Lists

I have a list I'm really excited about and have EDIT: 36 points remaining. The list needs an Ace of the most Imperial kind. There are obvious options:

Soontir Fel, standard build

Inquisitor, standard build and Proton Rockets

And then there are some Veterans:

Colonel Vessery, (I don't know the Colonel)

CountessRyad, PtL, x7, and Twin Ion EMKII

Tomax Bren, Crack Shot and some missiles

But maybe there's another?

I'm looking for a statistical stud, a PS nightmare (omit Vader, though), and a pilot that screams, "I dare you to not shoot me"

Sell me. Again, 36 points. Oops.

Edited by Rinzler in a Tie

Standard Fel is not 34 points.

Target Locks are fine, but it's not THE Fel build.

Standard Fel is not 34 points.

Target Locks are fine, but it's not THE Fel build.

Yeah, you are totally right. I am working with 36 points - my mistake. With the extra two points, is Fel your rec'? 1-point initiative bid.

Helps to know the list. Cant recommend Vessery if there are no spotters for him. Just played a match vs Vader and Vess and they were best buds.

Helps to know the list. Cant recommend Vessery if there are no spotters for him. Just played a match vs Vader and Vess and they were best buds.

Exactly this. We have no idea what tool your list needs until you tell us the tools it already has.

Okay, geez..

I was pretty explicit I needed an Ace, but here's the other 64 points.

No jeers or significant mods to RAC, I like this build:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau

-Veteran Instincts

-Engine Upgrade

-Mara Jade

-Darth Vader

-Gunner

-Dauntless

- Vessery + x7 title + VI

34 Points? Carnor Jax.

36 Points? Soontir Fel with initiative bid, no real contest imho, especially without seeing the synergies of the rest of the list.

Edited by SEApocalypse

Countess Ryad is so far undefeated (or not destroyed herself) in my games.

Drop Dauntless and take Ryad with x7, Stealth Device and Lone Wolf. :) Have fun and don't bump! If you like bumping, take Oicunn.

I would do that.

This is the list I'm running at the moment with RAC

RACING STEEL

100 points


PILOTS

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (65)
VT-49 Decimator (46), Predator (3), Emperor Palpatine (8), Ysanne Isard (4), Engine Upgrade (4)

Maarek Stele (35)
TIE Defender (35), Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

RAC with DeciVader gunner will burn through Aces and Regen ships quickly so what other type of opposition will you face?

Large base ships are still a thing. Triple U-boats, Dengaroo and Dash/Ghost are all fairly big in the Meta right now so something to help against the big heavy beasts while RAC swats the hornets.

Based on that, I would say Tomax Bren with ordnance of your choice will probably work well. I would go for Crack Shot, EMs, Plasma Torpedoes, Conner nets and Guidance Chips. He should strip the shields from a JumpMaster with each torpedo shot and carries a pair of Conner Nets for messing with many opponents after his torpedoes are gone. Many Meta big-hitters really suffer if the lose their actions (Fel, Poe, Dash, JumpMasters, Inq etc).

"Ace" is a very loose term, as you mentioned you don't want Vader. Soontir is a low damage, ultra high agility ace, whereas Whisper is a high damage, semi-high agility ace. The inquisitor is a 'sniper' ace, and Carnor is a bit of a troll.

36 points is a bit tight, but here's my take:

Juno Eclipse (28)

Sensor Jammer (4)

TIE/x1 (-4)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Total: 33 points.

Sure, Juno does't hit very hard, but at PS 10 with sensor jammer and a powerful positioning ability, she's incredibly hard for a single ship to pin down, especially in close quarters. Sensor jammer makes many builds cringe, and should help direct attention to the Decimator.

Vader with Adaptability.

Then drop vader, title, and Mara and take Palp on Chirpy.

Is Palp worth it with just a single Ace to support? Whilst not as slippery, Vader is a bit more durable than Fel or Carnor.

Is Palp worth it with just a single Ace to support? Whilst not as slippery, Vader is a bit more durable than Fel or Carnor.

I don't think he is - and, yes, Vader is staying right where he is.

RAC with DeciVader gunner will burn through Aces and Regen ships quickly so what other type of opposition will you face?

Large base ships are still a thing. Triple U-boats, Dengaroo and Dash/Ghost are all fairly big in the Meta right now so something to help against the big heavy beasts while RAC swats the hornets.

Based on that, I would say Tomax Bren with ordnance of your choice will probably work well. I would go for Crack Shot, EMs, Plasma Torpedoes, Conner nets and Guidance Chips. He should strip the shields from a JumpMaster with each torpedo shot and carries a pair of Conner Nets for messing with many opponents after his torpedoes are gone. Many Meta big-hitters really suffer if the lose their actions (Fel, Poe, Dash, JumpMasters, Inq etc).

Alright great - I was thinking something similar, would you go with Concussion or, as I have, Cluster Missiles:

Tomax Bren

- Crack Shot

- Extra Munitions

- Cluster Missiles (so that, if the occasion calls for, you can double-tap Crack Shot to push through 2+ damage)

- Proton Rockets (because you have to get in close at some point)

- Long Range Scanners (because Prockets only needs a focus)

Countess Ryad is so far undefeated (or not destroyed herself) in my games.

This was another idea I liked:

Countess Ryad

- Push the Limit

- Twin Ion EMKII

- Tie/x7

I've never flown my Defender. How does she synergize with RAC and can I expect her to be able to fly circles around him while he barrels through enemy ships..?

Is Palp worth it with just a single Ace to support? Whilst not as slippery, Vader is a bit more durable than Fel or Carnor.

I've flown against it. That list is not without its weaknesses, but it is HORRIBLE in the right meta. BOth ships will usually shoot before everything else and the average roll for each at R1 (which they're pretty likely to achieve) is hhcc.

Alright great - I was thinking something similar, would you go with Concussion or, as I have, Cluster Missiles:

Tomax Bren

- Crack Shot

- Extra Munitions

- Cluster Missiles (so that, if the occasion calls for, you can double-tap Crack Shot to push through 2+ damage)

- Proton Rockets (because you have to get in close at some point)

- Long Range Scanners (because Prockets only needs a focus)

I would go for Chips over LRS. LRS is great for low PS ships to get their target lock on on the approach but Bren is PS8 meaning he can afford to wait until he enters firing range to take his target lock. While this means he will not have TL + Focus for the alpha strike, it does mean that he can take TLs more easily in future rounds.

Cases can be made for most flavours of ordnance. If going for Chips, I would recommend Proton Torps as they can flip eyeballs to crits which makes them marginally superior to Concussion missiles. I would not take clusters and Protorps personally as I like to have at least one missile that can fire out to Range 3. A Tie bomber attacking at range 3 gets 2 red dice and the target gets +1 green. If you want to go shooty and avoid bombs, maybe the following would work.

35 Tomax Bren (24), Crack Shot (1), Proton Torpedoes (4), Cluster Missiles (4), Extra Munitions (2), Guidance Chips (0)

You now have ordnance threats from Range 1-3 and can TL on anyone in range.

Alright great - I was thinking something similar, would you go with Concussion or, as I have, Cluster Missiles:

Tomax Bren

- Crack Shot

- Extra Munitions

- Cluster Missiles (so that, if the occasion calls for, you can double-tap Crack Shot to push through 2+ damage)

- Proton Rockets (because you have to get in close at some point)

- Long Range Scanners (because Prockets only needs a focus)

I would go for Chips over LRS. LRS is great for low PS ships to get their target lock on on the approach but Bren is PS8 meaning he can afford to wait until he enters firing range to take his target lock. While this means he will not have TL + Focus for the alpha strike, it does mean that he can take TLs more easily in future rounds.

Cases can be made for most flavours of ordnance. If going for Chips, I would recommend Proton Torps as they can flip eyeballs to crits which makes them marginally superior to Concussion missiles. I would not take clusters and Protorps personally as I like to have at least one missile that can fire out to Range 3. A Tie bomber attacking at range 3 gets 2 red dice and the target gets +1 green. If you want to go shooty and avoid bombs, maybe the following would work.

35 Tomax Bren (24), Crack Shot (1), Proton Torpedoes (4), Cluster Missiles (4), Extra Munitions (2), Guidance Chips (0)

You now have ordnance threats from Range 1-3 and can TL on anyone in range.

Yo. I like this...

RACMax - 99 Points

Rear Admiral Chiraneau (64 points)
-Veteran Instincts
-Engine Upgrade
-Mara Jade
-Darth Vader
-Gunner
-Dauntless
Tomax Bren (35 points)
- Crack Shot
- Extra Munitions
- Proton Torpedos
- Cluster Missiles
- Guidance Chips or Long Range Scanners (still undecided)
I saw a lot of suggestions for changing RAC around.. I understand that Oicunn is the niche bumper and it's been implied that without Oicunn, drop Dauntless, but RAC wants to bump, stress EVERYONE (including himself, what's he care?) and blast things out of the sky.
Can someone tell me what (besides a point-sink, because I'm committed to that..) doesn't work with this RAC build? I'm open to suggestions on dropping Engine Upgrade if there's a better use for those points, but with the world against him, he wants to reposition at PS 10.
There is no MOV, only win, with this list...
Edited by Rinzler in a Tie

Can someone tell me what (besides a point-sink, because I'm committed to that..) doesn't work with this RAC build?

My only reservation is that the more expensive the ride, the more Darth Vader crew costs you each time you activate him. I prefer to put Vader/Gunner on a cheap Patrol Leader. Actually, double Decimator might have some mileage as you can probably just about squeeze in both.

51 Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46), VI (1), EU (4)

48 Patrol Leader (40), Darth Vader (3), Gunner (5)

I had to trim out Mara and the Title but that is 32 hit points for your opponent to burn through.

Can someone tell me what (besides a point-sink, because I'm committed to that..) doesn't work with this RAC build?

My only reservation is that the more expensive the ride, the more Darth Vader crew costs you each time you activate him. I prefer to put Vader/Gunner on a cheap Patrol Leader. Actually, double Decimator might have some mileage as you can probably just about squeeze in both.

51 Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46), VI (1), EU (4)

48 Patrol Leader (40), Darth Vader (3), Gunner (5)

I had to trim out Mara and the Title but that is 32 hit points for your opponent to burn through.

I respect double Decis, I do.

But the Patrol Leader with Gunner/Vader just doesn't work. Zero Agility and shooting next to last means by the time it comes to Vader, there won't be enough left to Vader. You need the high PS for this combo (and Engine Upgrade) so you are getting out of arcs, getting into range one, and, ultimately, taking ships off the board/crippling them before they shoot.

What doesn't work with the build? A few things, mostly in the current meta.

First of all, Jumpmasters (JM5Ks) have an incredible alpha strike, and a massive amount of durability. Because RAC shoots before Tomax, your firist vader salvo is going to do very little. Tomax and the RAC can't kill a JM5K in a single turn (barring extremely lucky rolls), so RAC will be taking the brunt of 3 fully modified attacks, leaving him on 4 hull, likely with many crits on him. Next turn, the turrets will finish him off even if you manage to kill one of them before they shoot. Then you would be left with Tomax against the world, and with only 6 hull, 2 AGI against 2 attack die turrets, its only a matter of time.

Also, the whole scenario goes a lot worse if they target tomax first, as he'll surely die, and then you're left with a 0 AGI ship against 2 or 3 turrets with ~ 9 health each.

This is just one of the hard counters to your list in its current state. Double IG 88s or a stress hog (to shut down tomax) will also have a significant advantage. Heck, 4 B-wings with FCS could give you a run for your money.

The trouble with RAC + ace builds is that they came out of a desire to beat opposing aces and swarms. The RAC would kill the ace, and then your ace would take out any mini swarms left over. Whisper and Soontir were the usual choices here, because they could both take on a swarm and win single handed. However, Tomax is not that kind of ace, and will die immediately to focused fire, even from lowly TIE fighters. He needs support to function properly, and RAC is not there to support him. I'd suggest swapping out Tomax for something that can take on a swarm by itself and live, whether it be the classics or something out of the ordinary. So long as you can counter the Ace and Swarm/Joust archetypes you will go well. I would advise you to be careful flying against any ordinance list though, as they are monsters now that ordinance has received its upgrades.