But Talonbane has also a doubled range 3 defense bonus

Which amounts to +0 green dice against secondary weapons. Fenn's +1 green die isn't a range bonus or agility die so he'll get it no matter what is taking a range one shot at him.

You cannot compare best case scenario of Fenn with worst case scenario of Talonbane. HLC doesn't shot at range 1, so for the enemy to be in range 1 is always number 1 tactic (and autoblaster is rare).

Especially in meta where Defenders are bigger part of the meta, range 3 shots with primary weapon will often be the case (same with T70)

This isn't comparing best case for one pilot with worst case for the other. You have one defensive bonus that frequently gets negated and another that never gets negated. TLT, ordnance, HLCs, and cannons on /x7 Defenders are all extremely common.

Cannons on x7 Defenders should be the polar opposite of common.

But Talonbane has also a doubled range 3 defense bonus

Which amounts to +0 green dice against secondary weapons. Fenn's +1 green die isn't a range bonus or agility die so he'll get it no matter what is taking a range one shot at him.

You cannot compare best case scenario of Fenn with worst case scenario of Talonbane. HLC doesn't shot at range 1, so for the enemy to be in range 1 is always number 1 tactic (and autoblaster is rare).

Especially in meta where Defenders are bigger part of the meta, range 3 shots with primary weapon will often be the case (same with T70)

This isn't comparing best case for one pilot with worst case for the other. You have one defensive bonus that frequently gets negated and another that never gets negated. TLT, ordnance, HLCs, and cannons on /x7 Defenders are all extremely common.

Cannons on x7 Defenders should be the polar opposite of common.

Good catch. Got my titles backwards there.

The only difference is that Fenn Rau with Fearless has to be staring down the gun barrels of his target in order to throw out silly amounts of dice, which means he has to eat dice in return. With no illicit slot/glitterstim, he is really, REALLY praying that he doesn't need to spend his focus on the attack because we all know what happens to green dice when there are no modifiers around.

FR gets a focus or two from Manaroo, together with a target lock. His modifiers are fine, he can just boost into range 1 and wreck faces.

Ah, if we are throwing other ships in the mix, can I throw Ketsu in there?

(I appreciate this is a Talonbane v Rau thread but...)

Ketsu with VI, K4 Sec Droid and title kinda counters all the Fang fighters and even the vast majority of Imperial aces. He moves at PS9, POINTS at a ship and assigns it a tractor beam token, you barrel roll them out of range 1. That removes Rau's ability and title and reduces his agility to two. (Also Carnor/Strom/Talonbane, etc).

Ketsu, if he done a green move, would have focus and target lock, fires and has a good change of dealing damage with 3 attack dice. If he does, they receive yet another tractor beam token due to the title.

That is a serious set up.

Now if we couple that with Rau or Talonbane (trying to get back on topic, sorry guys!) COULD YOU IMAGINE THE CARNAGE!!?

The only difference is that Fenn Rau with Fearless has to be staring down the gun barrels of his target in order to throw out silly amounts of dice, which means he has to eat dice in return. With no illicit slot/glitterstim, he is really, REALLY praying that he doesn't need to spend his focus on the attack because we all know what happens to green dice when there are no modifiers around.

Cobra on the other hand can get his five dice against anything he has in arc and range 1, meaning he can burn down a Decimator, Ghost and Dash faster than a Fang Fighter.

Additionally, if you had TC and FR face off, TC would have TL + Glitterstim + Fearless versus FR single focus and title. I would favour TC in that joust.

I don't know, man.

Glitterstim only ever works once, and then he's stressed and facing the wrong way against a TIE Interceptor-like dial. The Fang title negates Talonbane's Fearlessness, leaving him only with his super Range 1 bonus (which, incidentally, Rau matches), with which he still has to roll successfully. The title is grants Rau a guaranteed evade, and Rau gets extra defense on top of his already superior agility. Rau can also reposition, so if Rau really doesn't want to get shot at, he doesn't have to, but still gets the same attack bonus as Talonbane whether or not he's in arc.

I'd bet on Rau. Though it'd also depend heavily on who had initiative.

In a game of dice, it could swing either way. If Fenn fires first, he would have six dice modified by a focus only. (not sure what that averages hits wise?)

Then he would have to eat six dice back, with just his evade dice to save him and four hull. That shield on Cobra could of been the think that absorbed a crit.

Fenn fires: 5 ATK (+Focus + Fearlessness) vs 2 DEF : Expected Damage: 4.00

Cobra fires: 5 ATK (+TL + Fearlessness) vs 4 DEF(+Evade): Expected Damage: 2,38

Fenn fires: 5 ATK (+Focus + Fearlessness) vs 2 DEF (+Glitterstim) : Expected Damage: 3.51

Cobra fires: 5 ATk (+TL + Fearlessness + Glitterstim) vs 4 DEF (+Evade): Expected Damage: 3.20

Only thing that helps cobra in this fight is the one time Glitterstim use, for that exchange it comes out of this with more hp left (1.49 vs. 0.8), but in subsequent ones he'll lose. Also that one shield will help nothing in these exchanges as it's more than 1 damage expected anyway and hits damage first.

So we have

In my headcanon Talonbane Cobra is played by Charlie Sheen, So should have permanent crackshot and glitterstim.

Just be glad Fenn can't take Prockets.

True, but the abillity to equip torpedos, now opens up for use of the new possible activation attack torpedo (unspoiled card comming with the Arc-170), which just makes the matchup between Fenn and Talonbane (and any other ace for that matter) even more in Fenns favor.

Talonbane (other ace) has initiative/moves first, Fenn arc dodges.

Fenn has initiative (or moves before the other ace), Fenn moves and fires "Seis.... torp..." against enemy without tokens... BOOM!!!

Just be glad Fenn can't take Prockets.

True, but the abillity to equip torpedos, now opens up for use of the new possible activation attack torpedo (unspoiled card comming with the Arc-170), which just makes the matchup between Fenn and Talonbane (and any other ace for that matter) even more in Fenns favor.

Talonbane (other ace) has initiative/moves first, Fenn arc dodges.

Fenn has initiative (or moves before the other ace), Fenn moves and fires "Seis.... torp..." against enemy without tokens... BOOM!!!

I think Seismic Torps attack obstacles, not ships but does rumoured splash damage.

I mean, why would FFG release something that could potentially remove a TIE / Interceptor from the board before it has even moved? Ha ha.

Why either/or?

Why not both?

Enough of the tunnel vision already people, think outside the box.

MOARRR DIIIIIIIICE!!!!!!!

Yes, I think including both could be interesting.

Just be glad Fenn can't take Prockets.

True, but the abillity to equip torpedos, now opens up for use of the new possible activation attack torpedo (unspoiled card comming with the Arc-170), which just makes the matchup between Fenn and Talonbane (and any other ace for that matter) even more in Fenns favor.

Talonbane (other ace) has initiative/moves first, Fenn arc dodges.

Fenn has initiative (or moves before the other ace), Fenn moves and fires "Seis.... torp..." against enemy without tokens... BOOM!!!

I think Seismic Torps attack obstacles, not ships but does rumoured splash damage.

I mean, why would FFG release something that could potentially remove a TIE / Interceptor from the board before it has even moved? Ha ha.

Well they already have spoiled they are going to!!! Ha ha.

3 little words for you: Quickdraw+Ptl+Baffle

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/7/18/special-ops/

The only difference is that Fenn Rau with Fearless has to be staring down the gun barrels of his target in order to throw out silly amounts of dice, which means he has to eat dice in return. With no illicit slot/glitterstim, he is really, REALLY praying that he doesn't need to spend his focus on the attack because we all know what happens to green dice when there are no modifiers around.

Cobra on the other hand can get his five dice against anything he has in arc and range 1, meaning he can burn down a Decimator, Ghost and Dash faster than a Fang Fighter.

Additionally, if you had TC and FR face off, TC would have TL + Glitterstim + Fearless versus FR single focus and title. I would favour TC in that joust.

I don't know, man.

Glitterstim only ever works once, and then he's stressed and facing the wrong way against a TIE Interceptor-like dial. The Fang title negates Talonbane's Fearlessness, leaving him only with his super Range 1 bonus (which, incidentally, Rau matches), with which he still has to roll successfully. The title is grants Rau a guaranteed evade, and Rau gets extra defense on top of his already superior agility. Rau can also reposition, so if Rau really doesn't want to get shot at, he doesn't have to, but still gets the same attack bonus as Talonbane whether or not he's in arc.

I'd bet on Rau. Though it'd also depend heavily on who had initiative.

In a game of dice, it could swing either way. If Fenn fires first, he would have six dice modified by a focus only. (not sure what that averages hits wise?)

Then he would have to eat six dice back, with just his evade dice to save him and four hull. That shield on Cobra could of been the think that absorbed a crit.

Fenn fires: 5 ATK (+Focus + Fearlessness) vs 2 DEF : Expected Damage: 4.00

Cobra fires: 5 ATK (+TL + Fearlessness) vs 4 DEF(+Evade): Expected Damage: 2,38

Fenn fires: 5 ATK (+Focus + Fearlessness) vs 2 DEF (+Glitterstim) : Expected Damage: 3.51

Cobra fires: 5 ATk (+TL + Fearlessness + Glitterstim) vs 4 DEF (+Evade): Expected Damage: 3.20

Only thing that helps cobra in this fight is the one time Glitterstim use, for that exchange it comes out of this with more hp left (1.49 vs. 0.8), but in subsequent ones he'll lose. Also that one shield will help nothing in these exchanges as it's more than 1 damage expected anyway and hits damage first.

The only difference is that Fenn Rau with Fearless has to be staring down the gun barrels of his target in order to throw out silly amounts of dice, which means he has to eat dice in return. With no illicit slot/glitterstim, he is really, REALLY praying that he doesn't need to spend his focus on the attack because we all know what happens to green dice when there are no modifiers around.

Cobra on the other hand can get his five dice against anything he has in arc and range 1, meaning he can burn down a Decimator, Ghost and Dash faster than a Fang Fighter.

Additionally, if you had TC and FR face off, TC would have TL + Glitterstim + Fearless versus FR single focus and title. I would favour TC in that joust.

I don't know, man.

Glitterstim only ever works once, and then he's stressed and facing the wrong way against a TIE Interceptor-like dial. The Fang title negates Talonbane's Fearlessness, leaving him only with his super Range 1 bonus (which, incidentally, Rau matches), with which he still has to roll successfully. The title is grants Rau a guaranteed evade, and Rau gets extra defense on top of his already superior agility. Rau can also reposition, so if Rau really doesn't want to get shot at, he doesn't have to, but still gets the same attack bonus as Talonbane whether or not he's in arc.

I'd bet on Rau. Though it'd also depend heavily on who had initiative.

In a game of dice, it could swing either way. If Fenn fires first, he would have six dice modified by a focus only. (not sure what that averages hits wise?)

Then he would have to eat six dice back, with just his evade dice to save him and four hull. That shield on Cobra could of been the think that absorbed a crit.

Fenn fires: 5 ATK (+Focus + Fearlessness) vs 2 DEF : Expected Damage: 4.00

Cobra fires: 5 ATK (+TL + Fearlessness) vs 4 DEF(+Evade): Expected Damage: 2,38

Fenn fires: 5 ATK (+Focus + Fearlessness) vs 2 DEF (+Glitterstim) : Expected Damage: 3.51

Cobra fires: 5 ATk (+TL + Fearlessness + Glitterstim) vs 4 DEF (+Evade): Expected Damage: 3.20

Only thing that helps cobra in this fight is the one time Glitterstim use, for that exchange it comes out of this with more hp left (1.49 vs. 0.8), but in subsequent ones he'll lose. Also that one shield will help nothing in these exchanges as it's more than 1 damage expected anyway and hits damage first.

So we have

Always respect people that can run the numbers on stuff like this, however, it never seems to work out for me in a game. Once the dials are down and the dice in hand, anything can and generally does happen.

The only difference is that Fenn Rau with Fearless has to be staring down the gun barrels of his target in order to throw out silly amounts of dice, which means he has to eat dice in return. With no illicit slot/glitterstim, he is really, REALLY praying that he doesn't need to spend his focus on the attack because we all know what happens to green dice when there are no modifiers around.

FR gets a focus or two from Manaroo, together with a target lock. His modifiers are fine, he can just boost into range 1 and wreck faces.

This is currently what I'm considering running when they get released, just need to come up with a catchy name.

Talonbane Cobra (28)
Fearlessness (1)
Cloaking Device (2)
Vectored Thrusters (2)

Fenn Rau (28)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Contracted Scout (25)
Deadeye (1)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Extra Munitions (2)
Boba Fett (1)
Overclocked R4 (1)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

This is currently what I'm considering running when they get released, just need to come up with a catchy name.

Talonbane Cobra (28)

Fearlessness (1)

Cloaking Device (2)

Vectored Thrusters (2)

Fenn Rau (28)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Contracted Scout (25)

Deadeye (1)

Plasma Torpedoes (3)

Extra Munitions (2)

Boba Fett (1)

Overclocked R4 (1)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

Your lack of Manaroo is disturbing. Though APT does not fit with Cobra, "downgrading" to Old Teroch seems like a valid solution to keep running Manaroo with two aces.

Tricky. The Alpha Strike from the Scout is still nice, especially with Boba.