Scum only? ... Everybody knows that Imperial Navy pilots are the ones that are fearless

This would have been the perfect ept for Black Squadron.

A little bit broken with the inquisitor or Arvel Crynyd

Puzzles me why this ship has 3 firepower when it has the same weaponry as the A-wing, M3-A or even a production TIE/LN.

We have Jumpmasters that have all the options of the Punishing One with Torpedoes, Turrets and Astromech Slots. Twin-Laser turrets that have better damage output than Quad-laser cannons,

The game is getting ridiculous power creep. Its no wonder it has balance problems.

Oh wait!

Youngster with Expose

4 x Black Sqd with Fearless

Howlrunner - Fearless

98 points

Good . . . God. . . 30 red dice at range 1? With re-rolls.

Or

Epic Play

Howlrunner with Fearless

Youngster with Expose

10 x Black Sqd with Fearless

188 points

*heavy breathing intensifies*

Scum Only

Scum Only

They know - they're listing some of the arguably broken combos that would appear if it wasn't.

Scum only? ... Everybody knows that Imperial Navy pilots are the ones that are fearless

This would have been the perfect ept for Black Squadron.

It would have been broken AF for TIE/Ds though.

Vessary with TIE/D title and those four dice Ion/ five dice primary wombo combo.

Vader with ATC anyone?

Inquisitor rolling four dice for days? (always counts as range 1 right??)

Redline with Cluster Missiles (8 potential hits)

Wedge + Jan Ors LOL

Honestly I think most of those ships would be fine if the upgrade cost a point or two more. Fenn can already roll six hits with it. NDru can get two five dice cluster missile shots. I don't actually think the Inquisitor would work, and Vessery would admittedly be ridiculous, but consider Ruthlessness Vessery can deal that extra damage from each attack already, just to a different ship.

If it cost 3 points, it would be a fine upgrade for any faction, but I'm happy with it for 1 point for Scum only.

Puzzles me why this ship has 3 firepower when it has the same weaponry as the A-wing, M3-A or even a production TIE/LN.

We have Jumpmasters that have all the options of the Punishing One with Torpedoes, Turrets and Astromech Slots. Twin-Laser turrets that have better damage output than Quad-laser cannons,

The game is getting ridiculous power creep. Its no wonder it has balance problems.

It's never said anywhere that the Fang's weapons are the same as the A-wing's, and they do tear through pre-Endor A-wings like their nothing.

To be fair, though, that is Phoenix Squadron...

Yes we had interceptors since wave2 and they were also hot garbage until Soontir/Jax and even then they didnt become ungodly until Autos/Palp appeared.

these fangs are...cheap as hell....for what they do imo. Curious if that cheapest pilot allows 6-7 of these guys in a list...thats a brutal swarm if it is lol so many dice being thrown who needs mods!

Cheapest pilot is 20 points and too expensive at that price

A point less across the board for the generics would have been nice.

If I had to guess, I'd say they didn't want someone to be able to run 5 with titles.

Because we haven't learned anything from the "Lets make the X-wing 21 points so you can't fly 5 of them". Although 5 naked might not be awful, so we will have to wait and see on that one.

I have to say, I get a bit of a giggle that FFG really tries to make us believe jousting with these things on purpose is a viable way to play these ships. The bonus abilities of jousting are gonna be "if you happen to get caught jousting, here is a nice bonus". Outside of that, it's going to be arc dodge, arc dodge, arc dodge.

And what is exactly wrong with that? This game is a dogfight "simulation". In whole history of aerial combat brainless shooting at each other was never the most optimal option. What pilots always tried to do was "arc dodging" - to end up at the tail of enemy and shoot at him, while he is unable to do so.

While I appreciate the discussion that came about concerning real life dogfighting from this set of comments, I want to note that I didn't say anywhere that there was anything wrong with arc dodging in the game. I just think it's a bit funny that FFG is trying to say that it is perfectly fine to fly these things right down the opposing squads throats when, in actuality, you should always always always arc dodge and get out of those arcs, and only ever stay in arc when you are forced to.

It's called encouraging different ways of playing. They have stated one of the key tenants of Scum will be putting yourself in harms way, as it where.

It's called encouraging different ways of playing. They have stated one of the key tenants of Scum will be putting yourself in harms way, as it where.

Ya if some valid strategy comes about from their "stay in arc for the bonuses" strategy, that would be great. Can't fault FFG for trying something new, and it would be interesting to see a fast ship like this wanting to joust. But I see few, if any instances where that would be the better option over rolling and/or boosting out of arc, especially when you are looking at a 4 hull ship.

A little bit broken with the inquisitor or Arvel Crynyd

The Inquisitor wouldn't trigger this unless he was physically at range 1.

The range "inside the defender's arc" is not the attack range.

Do you see FFG's costing of PS1 as putting 'Balance' over 'Bucks'...?

If the ship+title was 20pts, I think people (prone to spamming) would be more inclined to buy 5 as a default. But rather than chase the incremental sales, they chose the squad cost they did and also didn't dilute the stats/abilities in order to feel comfortable bringing it down.

I know I'll be raising my initial purchase from 3 to 4, and probably would've gone 5 if they'd fit in a standard list...

...that being said, it's tempting to get more anyway, as there appears to be 2 distinct paint schemes in the artwork (to emulate on models).

my issue with the protectorate is that the title is one-cost. Do I really want to spend SP on something that I will likely not use? And then, what's the point of chasing after ruthlessness? It really needed to be a zero-cost, maybe bump the ship itself up one.

my issue with the protectorate is that the title is one-cost. Do I really want to spend SP on something that I will likely not use? And then, what's the point of chasing after ruthlessness? It really needed to be a zero-cost, maybe bump the ship itself up one.

If you do that, you are encouraging every version of this ship to fly the same way. By giving it a point value, you encourage diversity by allowing players to choose whether they want that range-1 bonus or not.

my issue with the protectorate is that the title is one-cost. Do I really want to spend SP on something that I will likely not use? And then, what's the point of chasing after ruthlessness? It really needed to be a zero-cost, maybe bump the ship itself up one.

If you do that, you are encouraging every version of this ship to fly the same way. By giving it a point value, you encourage diversity by allowing players to choose whether they want that range-1 bonus or not.

I agree with Budgernaut. For 1 point, it has essentially paid for itself if it triggers once, which is fine. A situational upgrade that you may not use should be 1 point and one point only. For anything 2 points or more, I'd agree with you. Not worth it if you can't use it every turn, but I think this is priced right.

Oh wait!

Youngster with Expose

4 x Black Sqd with Fearless

Howlrunner - Fearless

98 points

Good . . . God. . . 30 red dice at range 1? With re-rolls.

Or

Epic Play

Howlrunner with Fearless

Youngster with Expose

10 x Black Sqd with Fearless

188 points

*heavy breathing intensifies*

This ain't fantasy football...

Do you see FFG's costing of PS1 as putting 'Balance' over 'Bucks'...?

If the ship+title was 20pts, I think people (prone to spamming) would be more inclined to buy 5 as a default. But rather than chase the incremental sales, they chose the squad cost they did and also didn't dilute the stats/abilities in order to feel comfortable bringing it down.

I know I'll be raising my initial purchase from 3 to 4, and probably would've gone 5 if they'd fit in a standard list...

...that being said, it's tempting to get more anyway, as there appears to be 2 distinct paint schemes in the artwork (to emulate on models).

So why did FFG set the PS1 Fang cost at 20 points?

As you correctly point out, more people would purchase 5 if their cost was 18 points for instance. I myself will eventually get just one, and any serious mathwinger will only get one cause all the generics are overcosted for current tournament meta. (getting 4 is fine of course, but realize it will be for funzies)

FFG has had time to learn from the mistakes from waves 6 & 7, so why haven't they learned? [syck, Starviper, Kihraxz, Punisher]

1) Perhaps costing the PS1 at 20 is still a moneygrab. It's very likely a Fang fighter aces pack will be released in approximately 1.5 years that will have 'fix' cards making the generics playable. I hope this isn't the case, but it's plausible because #capitalism

2) Perhaps FFG doesn't care enough and simply haven't learned from past mistakes. This is less likely, cause they determined correctly that Wild Space Fringer at 30 points was overcosted. Therefore they priced the Contracted Scout at 25 points.

3) Other

I guess FFG envisioned the **** storm that would've followed if the Fang were 19

after all, the Fang is 20 and it's less efficient than the Cartel Marauder

and yet, we STILL have some folks complaining that it made the Special-K invalid

yes, Rau is a far superior Cobra Commander ito pilot ability (and his ship's ability to be built defensively as an arc-dodger), but that doesn't mean every PFighter is superior to every KFighter. Graz/Terry/Sol straight up do not overlap at all in intended use, and the generics have different upgrade slots (illicts v torpedoes? well missiles on Ks if you count those), the Pfighter has repositioning and less efficiency while the Kfighter is just more efficient (loss of an agility more than compensated for by higher PS and a shield)

I guess FFG envisioned the **** storm that would've followed if the Fang were 19

after all, the Fang is 20 and it's less efficient than the Cartel Marauder

and yet, we STILL have some folks complaining that it made the Special-K invalid

yes, Rau is a far superior Cobra Commander ito pilot ability (and his ship's ability to be built defensively as an arc-dodger), but that doesn't mean every PFighter is superior to every KFighter. Graz/Terry/Sol straight up do not overlap at all in intended use, and the generics have different upgrade slots (illicts v torpedoes? well missiles on Ks if you count those), the Pfighter has repositioning and less efficiency while the Kfighter is just more efficient (loss of an agility more than compensated for by higher PS and a shield)

If the PS1 Fang would have been 19 points it probably would end up seeing a lot more play. As it is, I think that only the folks that are currently playing Cartel Marauders are going to consider using them. I'm planning on just switching out my 20 points generics based on whether I think the agility or the hit points are better against the sorts of squads I've been running into.

hit points are almost invariably better than an agility unless you've got some Faustian bargain with the dice (and what you'd have to give up to make the **** thing roll evades, I dare not imagine)

agility only far surpasses hit points when you've got guarantees (thrusters + focus, palp; evade etc.)

more likely, you'll be switching the two ships around based on whether or not you need a jouster or a blocker

hit points are almost invariably better than an agility unless you've got some Faustian bargain with the dice (and what you'd have to give up to make the **** thing roll evades, I dare not imagine)

agility only far surpasses hit points when you've got guarantees (thrusters + focus, palp; evade etc.)

more likely, you'll be switching the two ships around based on whether or not you need a jouster or a blocker

The agility might be worth it if Ion Cannons and Tractor Beams start showing up a lot more. As it stands, my Guri + 3 Khiraxz squad is probably going to end up as Guri + Fang + 2 Khiraxz just for the boost to blocking.

I guess FFG envisioned the **** storm that would've followed if the Fang were 19

after all, the Fang is 20 and it's less efficient than the Cartel Marauder

and yet, we STILL have some folks complaining that it made the Special-K invalid

yes, Rau is a far superior Cobra Commander ito pilot ability (and his ship's ability to be built defensively as an arc-dodger), but that doesn't mean every PFighter is superior to every KFighter. Graz/Terry/Sol straight up do not overlap at all in intended use, and the generics have different upgrade slots (illicts v torpedoes? well missiles on Ks if you count those), the Pfighter has repositioning and less efficiency while the Kfighter is just more efficient (loss of an agility more than compensated for by higher PS and a shield)

If the PS1 Fang would have been 19 points it probably would end up seeing a lot more play. As it is, I think that only the folks that are currently playing Cartel Marauders are going to consider using them. I'm planning on just switching out my 20 points generics based on whether I think the agility or the hit points are better against the sorts of squads I've been running into.

Given that the ALpha Squaddie sees almost no use at 18 points, I doubt the Fang would have set the meta afire at 19.

All this talk about the Alpha Squadron Pilot's ineptitude makes me sad. I did pretty well with 4 Alphas and a support shuttle, and I think that a better player could really make that squad sing. I'm at 20 wins, 12 losses, though, so I guess people are right that it's not tournament material. Their biggest weakness is turrets with Engine Upgrade, but to get Autothrusters I'd have to drop to just three Alphas, and that doesn't sound like a good trade.

Worse you guys are making me want to take this Alpha squadron pilot squad to GenCon just to prove what it can do. But I've been down that road too many times, so I think I'll leave the interceptors at home this time. Maybe.